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Rainproof or Gore-Tex Pants
3/25/2012 6:09:58 PM
Any recommendations for something that is also rugged?
3/25/2012 7:33:04 PM
I use Gen 1 ECWCS from Tru-spec. The Propper brand uses Gore-tex and is more expensive. Your call.
3/25/2012 7:37:04 PM
Sure. USGI Gore-Tex pants are excellent, mostly in woodland, but sometimes seen in 3-color desert. Foreign milsurp Gore-Tex clone pants are hit-or-miss as to durability. The Bundeswehr Gore-Tex pants I bought from Sportsman's Guide had a construction defect in the shoulder straps (fairly easily fixed––needed some dis-assembly and some hand sewing), and could not hold a candle to USGI in terms of durability and features.
The older, all-vinyl USGI raingear is 100% waterproof, but examine it closely, as it is getting a bit old, and sometimes the vinyl degrades with time.
The older, all-vinyl USGI raingear is 100% waterproof, but examine it closely, as it is getting a bit old, and sometimes the vinyl degrades with time.
3/25/2012 10:06:59 PM
Helley Hansen, Grundens, Viking. Only way to go in real foul weather. Our issue goretex failed miserably here in SE Alaska. You are wet in under 4 hours of exposure. YMMV
3/25/2012 10:21:41 PM
Originally Posted By wsix:
Helley Hansen, Grundens, Viking. Only way to go in real foul weather. Our issue goretex failed miserably here in SE Alaska. You are wet in under 4 hours of exposure. YMMV
Helley Hansen, Grundens, Viking. Only way to go in real foul weather. Our issue goretex failed miserably here in SE Alaska. You are wet in under 4 hours of exposure. YMMV
Was your GT stuff Brand NEW, as in the plastic bag, or re-isued? Was it Gen I or Gen II?
Did you not employ the hood at the first sign of precip?
Lots of troops were untrained about the proper use of ECWS garments; mebbe you were also.
See my post above about the design problems with Gen I ECWCS, and the FIX.
3/25/2012 11:18:32 PM
ETA- I was in from '94 to'00.
Not sure what Gen is was Raf, mine were newish.
We were issued them with the mil contract detergent for washing them with. It was such an issue that the Batt CO allowed us to wear dark green rain gear.
It rains 200" a yr here though, it's an extreme test of raingear. You still get soaked wearing the rubber gear but it's sweat so you aren't freezing your ass off.
We were trained on the use of the ecwcs system, my PSG would sleep in his just to show us it worked, polypros, bear suit, goretex. It would keep you warm if you could stay dry.
Talked to some 10th mtn boys and all of them sprayed their goretex with silicone spray. Hahaha.
Now, below freezing, ecwcs is totally awesome. Perfection for arctic, never had any issues. Here in the rainforest it was failure.
Not sure what Gen is was Raf, mine were newish.
We were issued them with the mil contract detergent for washing them with. It was such an issue that the Batt CO allowed us to wear dark green rain gear.
It rains 200" a yr here though, it's an extreme test of raingear. You still get soaked wearing the rubber gear but it's sweat so you aren't freezing your ass off.
We were trained on the use of the ecwcs system, my PSG would sleep in his just to show us it worked, polypros, bear suit, goretex. It would keep you warm if you could stay dry.
Talked to some 10th mtn boys and all of them sprayed their goretex with silicone spray. Hahaha.
Now, below freezing, ecwcs is totally awesome. Perfection for arctic, never had any issues. Here in the rainforest it was failure.
3/26/2012 12:18:20 AM
Originally Posted By wsix:
ETA- I was in from '94 to'00.
Not sure what Gen is was Raf, mine were newish.
We were issued them with the mil contract detergent for washing them with. It was such an issue that the Batt CO allowed us to wear dark green rain gear.
It rains 200" a yr here though, it's an extreme test of raingear. You still get soaked wearing the rubber gear but it's sweat so you aren't freezing your ass off.
We were trained on the use of the ecwcs system, my PSG would sleep in his just to show us it worked, polypros, bear suit, goretex. It would keep you warm if you could stay dry.
Talked to some 10th mtn boys and all of them sprayed their goretex with silicone spray. Hahaha.
Now, below freezing, ecwcs is totally awesome. Perfection for arctic, never had any issues. Here in the rainforest it was failure.
I'll bet you had Gen I, which is known to have issues with sewn-through seams, as in alongside the front zipper and so forth. Am I right?ETA- I was in from '94 to'00.
Not sure what Gen is was Raf, mine were newish.
We were issued them with the mil contract detergent for washing them with. It was such an issue that the Batt CO allowed us to wear dark green rain gear.
It rains 200" a yr here though, it's an extreme test of raingear. You still get soaked wearing the rubber gear but it's sweat so you aren't freezing your ass off.
We were trained on the use of the ecwcs system, my PSG would sleep in his just to show us it worked, polypros, bear suit, goretex. It would keep you warm if you could stay dry.
Talked to some 10th mtn boys and all of them sprayed their goretex with silicone spray. Hahaha.
Now, below freezing, ecwcs is totally awesome. Perfection for arctic, never had any issues. Here in the rainforest it was failure.
The other thing is that the Durable Water Repellant (DWR) treatment to the outside of the garment WILL deteriorate over time, and also get washed-off with frequent rain. Without the DWR, Gore-Tex doesn't work, and will eventually leak inwards.
There's an easy fix for that.
Even giwen NEW ECWCS gear, with constant rain, you all should have been re-spraying with DWR abour every couple of weeks, I figure.
3/26/2012 11:43:22 AM
That is where the leaks started.
I don't recall ever seeing a spray for ours.
I don't recall ever seeing a spray for ours.
3/26/2012 2:52:04 PM
Originally Posted By wsix:
That is where the leaks started.
I don't recall ever seeing a spray for ours.
That is where the leaks started.
I don't recall ever seeing a spray for ours.
The fix for Gen I ECWCS leaking sewn-throughs is to apply water-based seam sealer directly on the sewn-through areas inside and out after the jacket has been laundered (with the right detergent), and then apply the dwr spray.
No doubt the Mil has a specified procedure for laundering and treating the ECWCS. Who knows how often it is followed to the letter? The impression I get is that it is seldom adhered-to.
3/26/2012 4:43:38 PM
If you want something earth colored (for camouflage) your chooses are limited, with Arcteryx Leaf excellent but pricey. Otherwise, most of the commercial high quality (high end) Gore-Tex pants are excellent, although most have limited pockets if that is an issue. There is also a tradeoff of weight verses durability. If you intend to wear them where becoming cold and wet could be life-threatening, get something high quality.
3/26/2012 8:01:41 PM
Originally Posted By raf:
Was your GT stuff Brand NEW, as in the plastic bag, or re-isued? Was it Gen I or Gen II?
Did you not employ the hood at the first sign of precip?
Lots of troops were untrained about the proper use of ECWS garments; mebbe you were also.
See my post above about the design problems with Gen I ECWCS, and the FIX.
Originally Posted By wsix:
Helley Hansen, Grundens, Viking. Only way to go in real foul weather. Our issue goretex failed miserably here in SE Alaska. You are wet in under 4 hours of exposure. YMMV
Helley Hansen, Grundens, Viking. Only way to go in real foul weather. Our issue goretex failed miserably here in SE Alaska. You are wet in under 4 hours of exposure. YMMV
Was your GT stuff Brand NEW, as in the plastic bag, or re-isued? Was it Gen I or Gen II?
Did you not employ the hood at the first sign of precip?
Lots of troops were untrained about the proper use of ECWS garments; mebbe you were also.
See my post above about the design problems with Gen I ECWCS, and the FIX.
I got my Gore Tex from CIF still in the bag. Don't know what Gen it was but this was early Oct 93. I do know that during a Warfighter I wore the thing directing traffic in a Texas summer downpour that had my BDU pants soaked solid. My BDU top was a dry as when I put it on. I think I paid $35 to keep it when I ETS'd and over they years it's gotten worn down a bit. But it's still better than nothing.
3/26/2012 11:34:08 PM
Originally Posted By raf:
The fix for Gen I ECWCS leaking sewn-throughs is to apply water-based seam sealer directly on the sewn-through areas inside and out after the jacket has been laundered (with the right detergent), and then apply the dwr spray.
No doubt the Mil has a specified procedure for laundering and treating the ECWCS. Who knows how often it is followed to the letter? The impression I get is that it is seldom adhered-to.
Originally Posted By wsix:
That is where the leaks started.
I don't recall ever seeing a spray for ours.
That is where the leaks started.
I don't recall ever seeing a spray for ours.
The fix for Gen I ECWCS leaking sewn-throughs is to apply water-based seam sealer directly on the sewn-through areas inside and out after the jacket has been laundered (with the right detergent), and then apply the dwr spray.
No doubt the Mil has a specified procedure for laundering and treating the ECWCS. Who knows how often it is followed to the letter? The impression I get is that it is seldom adhered-to.
We were issued the proper detergant in 4oz bottles.
Tipster, I'm in an environment that has one other peer. There's two subtropical rainforests in the world. SE AK and some other fucking shithole.
We rely on rubber here but most AO's can get away with goretex.
It will rain here all day every day for 4 months, not a typo.
