Archived Posts » 59,646,491
Generator install prep?
1/15/2012 7:57:31 PM
Hope to get some guidance from some of you guys here.
I am having a house built. I wanted to have the extra panel done from the beginning but they wanted a little over 3K just for that. What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
Anything else you guys think I should have them do that a person (me) should not be able to, or might be too complex? I was thinking of the power outlet/inlet box that goes outside the house?
Thank you.
I am having a house built. I wanted to have the extra panel done from the beginning but they wanted a little over 3K just for that. What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
Anything else you guys think I should have them do that a person (me) should not be able to, or might be too complex? I was thinking of the power outlet/inlet box that goes outside the house?
Thank you.
1/15/2012 8:16:47 PM
Instead of one big breaker panel have two one with the stuff you really need to power and one with the big draw items you will not be using during SHTF.
should only be a couple hundred more for two panels instead of one.
After this is done and house is built and you have CO and moved in await further instructions from us.
make sure there are a few open slots on each panel left over.
should only be a couple hundred more for two panels instead of one.
After this is done and house is built and you have CO and moved in await further instructions from us.
make sure there are a few open slots on each panel left over.
1/15/2012 9:00:53 PM
Originally Posted By reelserious:
Instead of one big breaker panel have two one with the stuff you really need to power and one with the big draw items you will not be using during SHTF.
should only be a couple hundred more for two panels instead of one.
After this is done and house is built and you have CO and moved in await further instructions from us.
make sure there are a few open slots on each panel left over.
Instead of one big breaker panel have two one with the stuff you really need to power and one with the big draw items you will not be using during SHTF.
should only be a couple hundred more for two panels instead of one.
After this is done and house is built and you have CO and moved in await further instructions from us.
make sure there are a few open slots on each panel left over.
10-4
.
Will take some pics of location of panel and location of gas line ( where I think it would be better located ).
1/15/2012 9:25:21 PM
I just buy a genny big enough to run everything... I bought a genrac 25kw, for $7200, I can run the central air and every light in the house, while I strip paint with a heatgun, and microwave a hot pocket, with a lean pocket chaser... Mine is a liquid cooled 4 cyl...
In my cousins house, we just back fed his 5.5kw though a dryer outlet, make sure you shut the main {dont want to cook any lineman}, and dont run more than it can handle...
In my cousins house, we just back fed his 5.5kw though a dryer outlet, make sure you shut the main {dont want to cook any lineman}, and dont run more than it can handle...
1/15/2012 10:46:16 PM
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
.
What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
.
Line meaning conduit, or line meaning wire? What size?
1/15/2012 11:09:39 PM
they wanted $3000 extra for a sub panel? 
1/15/2012 11:21:51 PM
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
Hope to get some guidance from some of you guys here.
I am having a house built. I wanted to have the extra panel done from the beginning but they wanted a little over 3K just for that. What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
Anything else ...
Hope to get some guidance from some of you guys here.
I am having a house built. I wanted to have the extra panel done from the beginning but they wanted a little over 3K just for that. What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
Anything else ...
Depending on the length of run of the NG line to the back of the house and then to the generator, you very well may need larger than standard pipe.
The 60' natural gas line from the meter to my generator needed to be 2" in diameter minimum to keep pressure drop in the line low enough to have sufficient pressure to run the generator at full power. OK, I have a 45 kW Generac, but the 5" minimum required pressure is typical for many generators. Depending on the size of your generator and it's NG requirement, you can use the table of Page 10 of the Generac Installation Manual for sizing the line.
I'd be conservative and use one size larger pipe than you think you'd need.
1/15/2012 11:41:30 PM
Originally Posted By 44Regular:
Line meaning conduit, or line meaning wire? What size?
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
Line meaning conduit, or line meaning wire? What size?
Oh, you mean natural gas line. Okay.
What about installing conduits for power and controls from the generator to the future transfer switch location?
1/17/2012 1:28:52 PM
Get a whole house transfer switch. A 200 amp switch is only about $350-400 or so. Installation should only be a couple hundred AT MOST because you are in the process of building the house. If it was existing construction, it would be higher...but I don't see it being $3000.
You can get a smaller panel to just run a few circuits for maybe $250. Installation is simple so shouldn't be much either.
You can get a smaller panel to just run a few circuits for maybe $250. Installation is simple so shouldn't be much either.
1/17/2012 11:31:58 PM
Install an external power inlet box now and run it close to your breaker panel, even if you don't have a subpanel installed.
1/18/2012 10:19:12 AM
Is this for a standby (auto-start) generator or a portable that you will plug in during an outage?
Grove
Grove
1/19/2012 11:54:06 AM
Originally Posted By 44Regular:
Line meaning conduit, or line meaning wire? What size?
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
.
What I did ask and will get is a line run to the back of the house (NG).
.
Line meaning conduit, or line meaning wire? What size?
Conduit.
I am assuming is the yellow looking ones that come from the main line drop to the house.
I will take some pictures. It looks like half inch yellow corrugated.
1/19/2012 11:54:36 AM
Originally Posted By Badlatitude:
they wanted $3000 extra for a sub panel?
they wanted $3000 extra for a sub panel?
Well i said i wanted an extra panel all wired up to run everything!
1/19/2012 11:57:33 AM
Originally Posted By Grove:
Is this for a standby (auto-start) generator or a portable that you will plug in during an outage?
Grove
Is this for a standby (auto-start) generator or a portable that you will plug in during an outage?
Grove
No standby. I will roll it out when need it. We dont loose power in my area too often.
1/19/2012 12:10:54 PM
Originally Posted By nate1865:
Install an external power inlet box now and run it close to your breaker panel, even if you don't have a subpanel installed.
Install an external power inlet box now and run it close to your breaker panel, even if you don't have a subpanel installed.
That's one dilemma i am running into.
Here's MS paint.
1/19/2012 12:12:11 PM
I am thinking something around 10K for power. I know i have to find out what it will take to run everything by actually looking at all the appliance labels and what not.
Builder did say he would run the line to the back of the house, but he recommended close to the panel due to electrical. My only reprieve against this is the other neighbors house and noise (plus opsec).
The back of the house is all wooded, i got .74 of and acre. It is shaped like a triangle.
Builder did say he would run the line to the back of the house, but he recommended close to the panel due to electrical. My only reprieve against this is the other neighbors house and noise (plus opsec).
The back of the house is all wooded, i got .74 of and acre. It is shaped like a triangle.
1/19/2012 12:16:01 PM
I think Siemens makes a panel with the transfer switch built in. You flip the switch and hook up the genny and then turn off the circuits you don't need, if you don't have one big enough to run everything. No reason to have double of everything. This would work also.
Interlock kit
Interlock kit
1/19/2012 12:21:44 PM
Just want to say thanks once again guys for looking at my problem and helping me out.
I was looking at this one.
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-16kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04599
Or the smaller one with wheels that puts out 14K.
I was looking at this one.
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-16kw-Propane-Generator.asp?page=H04599
Or the smaller one with wheels that puts out 14K.
1/19/2012 12:25:41 PM
Originally Posted By bigborehound:
I think Siemens makes a panel with the transfer switch built in. You flip the switch and hook up the genny and then turn off the circuits you don't need, if you don't have one big enough to run everything. No reason to have double of everything. This would work also.
Interlock kit
I think Siemens makes a panel with the transfer switch built in. You flip the switch and hook up the genny and then turn off the circuits you don't need, if you don't have one big enough to run everything. No reason to have double of everything. This would work also.
Interlock kit
Wow that's great. I will have to ask the electrician when we do the meeting with him. I hope he does not want another 3K for it
1/19/2012 12:49:09 PM
For 10K you can get a Kohler nat gas unit and a 200 Ampere switch. Do more research here or net and make sure you get the most for your cash. A small 100 Ampere subpanel only costs a $100 bucks and installed near the main panel it should not cost 3K to install. Run a 3-#3 -#5 SE cable from genny location to sub panel with switch buikt in or to a 100A switch.
Panel with interlock
or
Find out what panels electrician uses. Interlock for whole panel
Run wire for ampacity of your unit from panel to outside of home where generator will be. Hook generator to wire in jbox, using whatever NEMA config plug you have, or a properly rated whip. on outside of home if genny has breaker, if no breaker use a means of disconnet/over current for feed to house. This would be a non auto start application. And in same location have 120 VAC line for outlet/light/battery charger.
I have installed many generators from 12KW to 2Meg
Panel with interlock
or
Find out what panels electrician uses. Interlock for whole panel
Run wire for ampacity of your unit from panel to outside of home where generator will be. Hook generator to wire in jbox, using whatever NEMA config plug you have, or a properly rated whip. on outside of home if genny has breaker, if no breaker use a means of disconnet/over current for feed to house. This would be a non auto start application. And in same location have 120 VAC line for outlet/light/battery charger.
I have installed many generators from 12KW to 2Meg
1/19/2012 1:03:55 PM
Originally Posted By zoe17:
For 10K you can get a Kohler nat gas unit and a 200 Ampere switch. Do more research here or net and make sure you get the most for your cash. A small 100 Ampere subpanel only costs a $100 bucks and installed near the main panel it should not cost 3K to install. Run a 3-#3 -#5 SE cable from genny location to sub panel with switch buikt in or to a 100A switch.
Panel with interlock
or
Find out what panels electrician uses. Interlock for whole panel
Run wire for ampacity of your unit from panel to outside of home where generator will be. Hook generator to wire in jbox, using whatever NEMA config plug you have, or a properly rated whip. on outside of home if genny has breaker, if no breaker use a means of disconnet/over current for feed to house. This would be a non auto start application. And in same location have 120 VAC line for outlet/light/battery charger.
I have installed many generators from 12KW to 2Meg
For 10K you can get a Kohler nat gas unit and a 200 Ampere switch. Do more research here or net and make sure you get the most for your cash. A small 100 Ampere subpanel only costs a $100 bucks and installed near the main panel it should not cost 3K to install. Run a 3-#3 -#5 SE cable from genny location to sub panel with switch buikt in or to a 100A switch.
Panel with interlock
or
Find out what panels electrician uses. Interlock for whole panel
Run wire for ampacity of your unit from panel to outside of home where generator will be. Hook generator to wire in jbox, using whatever NEMA config plug you have, or a properly rated whip. on outside of home if genny has breaker, if no breaker use a means of disconnet/over current for feed to house. This would be a non auto start application. And in same location have 120 VAC line for outlet/light/battery charger.
I have installed many generators from 12KW to 2Meg
Sorry did not mean $10K, meant 10KV. If i was looking to spend $10K i would not be looking for advice
1/19/2012 6:10:42 PM
Well just buy an interlock for the panel being installed, run 6/3 AWG(2 hots/grounded conductor/grounding conductor) from house electrical box to the exterior where you want the generator to be placed. Have the wire stubbed out in conduit, PVC sch 40 is fine, mount box of choosing with plug(S)/outlet of chosing and matching the NEMA config of the genny plug.
1/20/2012 5:09:38 AM
Originally Posted By zoe17:
Well just buy an interlock for the panel being installed, run 6/3 AWG(2 hots/grounded conductor/grounding conductor) from house electrical box to the exterior where you want the generator to be placed. Have the wire stubbed out in conduit, PVC sch 40 is fine, mount box of choosing with plug(S)/outlet of chosing and matching the NEMA config of the genny plug.
Well just buy an interlock for the panel being installed, run 6/3 AWG(2 hots/grounded conductor/grounding conductor) from house electrical box to the exterior where you want the generator to be placed. Have the wire stubbed out in conduit, PVC sch 40 is fine, mount box of choosing with plug(S)/outlet of chosing and matching the NEMA config of the genny plug.
1/20/2012 10:02:53 AM
+1 on an interlock kit, I just had one installed for my 7.5k genny.
1/20/2012 12:30:53 PM
Make sure the interlock kit you get is from the manufacturer of your panel (in my case Square D) or else the panel no longer retains its UL rating is what a friend of mine and I found out. It was only $70 for a Homeline series kit and well worth it.
1/20/2012 3:57:27 PM
Just talked to the electrician over the phone and mentioned the interconnect and the plug.
He said he did one on a house close to mine that the guy can run everything (heat also) but not the AC. He said it was about 800 bucks, and it is and interconnect type deal.
Sounds ok price wise, and he did say he would put the plug where ever i want, i told him i wanted it next to the gas line.
I feel better since he just did one and sounded very confident about it on the phone.
So what do you guys think about the price?
I mentioned this to him and he said it was pretty much that.
He said he did one on a house close to mine that the guy can run everything (heat also) but not the AC. He said it was about 800 bucks, and it is and interconnect type deal.
Sounds ok price wise, and he did say he would put the plug where ever i want, i told him i wanted it next to the gas line.
I feel better since he just did one and sounded very confident about it on the phone.
So what do you guys think about the price?
Originally Posted By zoe17:
Well just buy an interlock for the panel being installed, run 6/3 AWG(2 hots/grounded conductor/grounding conductor) from house electrical box to the exterior where you want the generator to be placed. Have the wire stubbed out in conduit, PVC sch 40 is fine, mount box of choosing with plug(S)/outlet of chosing and matching the NEMA config of the genny plug.
Well just buy an interlock for the panel being installed, run 6/3 AWG(2 hots/grounded conductor/grounding conductor) from house electrical box to the exterior where you want the generator to be placed. Have the wire stubbed out in conduit, PVC sch 40 is fine, mount box of choosing with plug(S)/outlet of chosing and matching the NEMA config of the genny plug.
I mentioned this to him and he said it was pretty much that.
1/20/2012 3:58:10 PM
DT.
1/20/2012 4:01:26 PM
Glad you got it worked out
1/20/2012 4:17:15 PM
Originally Posted By zoe17:
Glad you got it worked out
Glad you got it worked out
Yeah the first quote really had me scratching my head.
So $800 is a fair price?
I have a meeting on Monday with him, i will bring more details on what he is doing.
1/22/2012 1:20:05 PM
Yes, it sounds fair..
1/26/2012 4:30:21 AM
Finally had a chance to take pictures of the NG set up.
This was taken at the model home, I believe it will be a similar set up.
This was taken at the model home, I believe it will be a similar set up.
1/26/2012 4:31:32 AM
Originally Posted By abacus:
Yes, it sounds fair..
Yes, it sounds fair..
The electrician actually told me is not and interconnect set up.
He said I will have a separate box that will be able to power 10 circuits. He did say it would be 115 and not 220 capable.
Told me I didn't really need it, only thing in the house using 220 would be oven and second floor furnace.
1/26/2012 9:07:47 PM
Bury the wire from where you want the gen to the electrical box. See the red line in the picture below.
Use 6 AWG I would not run the generators power wire thru the house walls. I would cut a trench and bury it. IMHO.
Use 6 AWG I would not run the generators power wire thru the house walls. I would cut a trench and bury it. IMHO.
1/26/2012 10:46:37 PM
Originally Posted By Rockyriver:
Bury the wire from where you want the gen to the electrical box. See the red line in the picture below.
Use 6 AWG I would not run the generators power wire thru the house walls. I would cut a trench and bury it. IMHO.
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac216/Rockyriver1234/Burywire.jpg
Bury the wire from where you want the gen to the electrical box. See the red line in the picture below.
Use 6 AWG I would not run the generators power wire thru the house walls. I would cut a trench and bury it. IMHO.
http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac216/Rockyriver1234/Burywire.jpg
Is there a reason for that?
I already paid to have it all done for me. I believe it will all be routed in the basement.
And i think the outlet for the generator and gas will actually be on the east wall close the north corner. He told me since i want a deck to build the deck all the way to end of the north wall and i could always set the generator on the deck and just run the connections around the corner.
Any advice anyone can offer is still welcome.
Can anyone comment on the gas line? Is that enough to run a 10 kv or 14 kv NG genny?
1/26/2012 10:50:57 PM
Update paint drawing.
1/27/2012 11:04:10 AM
Its just a preference of mine to always run wires for generators outside if they have to stretch that far.
The wire stays cooler buried. Its just a preference of mine. No matter how you run the wire it will work.
The wire stays cooler buried. Its just a preference of mine. No matter how you run the wire it will work.
1/28/2012 9:47:17 PM
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
Update paint drawing.
Update paint drawing.
Those are some really small houses across the street.
1/29/2012 4:01:54 PM
Originally Posted By Rockyriver:
Its just a preference of mine to always run wires for generators outside if they have to stretch that far.
The wire stays cooler buried. Its just a preference of mine. No matter how you run the wire it will work.
Its just a preference of mine to always run wires for generators outside if they have to stretch that far.
The wire stays cooler buried. Its just a preference of mine. No matter how you run the wire it will work.
As long as you don't exceed the current carrying capacity of the wire, it won't need the ground temps to keep it cool. It'll do just fine buried or exposed.
2/22/2012 8:09:52 PM
Originally Posted By Rockyriver:
Its just a preference of mine to always run wires for generators outside if they have to stretch that far.
The wire stays cooler buried. Its just a preference of mine. No matter how you run the wire it will work.
Its just a preference of mine to always run wires for generators outside if they have to stretch that far.
The wire stays cooler buried. Its just a preference of mine. No matter how you run the wire it will work.
Thank you for the explanation.
The electricians are doing it all, I will defer all responsibility to them, I imagine they would know what would fly and what would not.
2/22/2012 8:11:00 PM
Originally Posted By SR712:
Those are some really small houses across the street.
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
Update paint drawing.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2nlrbja.jpg]http://i40.tinypic.com/2nlrbja.jpg]http://i40.tinypic.com/2nlrbja.jpg
Update paint drawing.
http://i40.tinypic.com/2nlrbja.jpg]http://i40.tinypic.com/2nlrbja.jpg]http://i40.tinypic.com/2nlrbja.jpg
Those are some really small houses across the street.
I have yet to go get MS paint skills like some of you guys.
Next time I will make sure to add a "not to scale" text somewhere.
2/23/2012 12:49:58 AM
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
Grove
2/23/2012 2:06:41 AM
Originally Posted By Grove:
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
I was thinking of actually sitting it on the deck. Didn't think about the vibration, thanks for bringing that up.
The deck should run all the way to the edge of the house.
I guess I will have to rethink the idea of putting the generator on top of the deck.
2/23/2012 7:25:40 AM
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
I was thinking of actually sitting it on the deck. Didn't think about the vibration, thanks for bringing that up.
The deck should run all the way to the edge of the house.
I guess I will have to rethink the idea of putting the generator on top of the deck.
Originally Posted By Grove:
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
I was thinking of actually sitting it on the deck. Didn't think about the vibration, thanks for bringing that up.
The deck should run all the way to the edge of the house.
I guess I will have to rethink the idea of putting the generator on top of the deck.
Get the genset its own pad, on the ground.
2/24/2012 4:17:30 AM
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Get the genset its own pad, on the ground.
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
I was thinking of actually sitting it on the deck. Didn't think about the vibration, thanks for bringing that up.
The deck should run all the way to the edge of the house.
I guess I will have to rethink the idea of putting the generator on top of the deck.
Originally Posted By Grove:
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
I was thinking of actually sitting it on the deck. Didn't think about the vibration, thanks for bringing that up.
The deck should run all the way to the edge of the house.
I guess I will have to rethink the idea of putting the generator on top of the deck.
Get the genset its own pad, on the ground.
Well is going to be a mobile (on wheels) type of genset.
Should I still pour a pad for it?
2/24/2012 8:25:34 AM
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
Well is going to be a mobile (on wheels) type of genset.
Should I still pour a pad for it?
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Get the genset its own pad, on the ground.
Originally Posted By Papi4baby:
I was thinking of actually sitting it on the deck. Didn't think about the vibration, thanks for bringing that up.
The deck should run all the way to the edge of the house.
I guess I will have to rethink the idea of putting the generator on top of the deck.
Originally Posted By Grove:
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
Add the deck to your paint drawing. I don't understand where it is going. I wouldn't want it on the deck vibrating the whole house. I have a 16kw Generac and it sits on a concrete slab on the plastic base that was included. Each of my parents have them as well and one is on concrete and the other in gravel.
Grove
I was thinking of actually sitting it on the deck. Didn't think about the vibration, thanks for bringing that up.
The deck should run all the way to the edge of the house.
I guess I will have to rethink the idea of putting the generator on top of the deck.
Get the genset its own pad, on the ground.
Well is going to be a mobile (on wheels) type of genset.
Should I still pour a pad for it?
I would.
You might want to go with a sited generator down the road... and in the meantime, make sure you put a ring-bolt or U-bracket in the end of that concrete pad (not in the middle). That will give you a way to chain down your portable generator against theft.
Also, having a set location for your generator will enable you to mount either a camera, or alarm motion-sensor to watch that location.
2/24/2012 4:19:05 PM
Originally Posted By Rockyriver:
Its just a preference of mine to always run wires for generators outside if they have to stretch that far.
The wire stays cooler buried. Its just a preference of mine. No matter how you run the wire it will work.
Its just a preference of mine to always run wires for generators outside if they have to stretch that far.
The wire stays cooler buried. Its just a preference of mine. No matter how you run the wire it will work.
HUH ?
Let the electrician run the wire inside. shorter distance =less voltage drop= smaller wire= less $.
The gas line u show looks like 1" . Most generators require 2" or more due to the volume of gas to supply genset,check with the manufacture.
2/24/2012 5:46:50 PM
OP:
read the following links in their entirety, especially with respect to the gas meter capacity upgrade and gas line sizing.
IMHO –– the 1/2" corrugated stainless line that you have may not provide enough flow.
http://www.rowand.net/Family/House/Generator/
and
http://www.indovina.us/~mai/generator/
ar-jedi
