AR15.Com Archives
 How to buy a vehicle that is "EMP proof"?
semperfiws6  [Member]
1/22/2010 2:16:39 PM
I realize that it would need to be an older vehicle, but how old and what exactly does one look for? How do you tell what are solid state electronics? Does the distrib need to have points to set? This could possibly turn into a guide for purchase.

Thanks

FWIW, I was looking at a 1960 Dodge Fargo P/U.
shibumiseeker  [Member]
1/22/2010 2:24:30 PM
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.
limaxray  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 2:41:56 PM
bogomil  [Member]
1/22/2010 2:44:11 PM
Perhaps one that has a points distributor and not an electronic ignition module?
urbanpi  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 2:49:37 PM
The EMP issue made me think, whether it is an EMP or some other failure of electronic controls when there are no auto parts stores to get repl parts from; how difficult would it be to assemble a wiring harness (just for arguments sake, from inexpensive and mostly salvage yard parts) that could be swapped out with the ECM/computer to make your vehicle operate? Let's say a Chevy 5.7 Vortec or 4.3L Vortec (95-99) as this is what I would be attempting it on, and seems to be a fairly common setup. when I first looked at this, I think it looked like I would have to obtain an aftermarket intake/carb setup, and distributer which are avail from edelbrock.....
Garand_Shooter  [Dealer]
1/22/2010 2:58:42 PM
Either a full points ignition with no transistorized ignition module, or far, far better a mechanical injection diesel engine.

ETA- But unless you are damm close to the blast, it will not be a huge issue/
PugglePod9000  [Member]
1/22/2010 3:11:37 PM
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Either a full points ignition with no transistorized ignition module, or far, far better a mechanical ignition diesel engine...


Mmmm....
(not just EMP-proof, it's just about everything-proof! )



Fullpower  [Member]
1/22/2010 3:13:24 PM
Old school Diesel is the way to go.
Find an old one ton pick-up, stick a 4BT Cummins, or a 4-53 Detroit Diesel, or a little Perkins and a
5 Speed and there you go, drive it fifty years, hand it off to your grandson.
Garand_Shooter  [Dealer]
1/22/2010 3:13:29 PM
Originally Posted By PugglePod9000:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Either a full points ignition with no transistorized ignition module, or far, far better a mechanical ignition diesel engine...


Mmmm....

http://www.unimogs.nl/unimog%20136.jpg



I had a Unimog for a while. A fun toy, but I wouldn't even consider it as a serious BOV because parts are not readily available and would be even harder to scrounge.
PugglePod9000  [Member]
1/22/2010 3:16:50 PM
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:I had a Unimog for a while. A fun toy, but I wouldn't even consider it as a serious BOV because parts are not readily available and would be even harder to scrounge.


I disagree.
I have one and it is my daily driver... Most parts are stil available from Mercedes.
Once you get used to where-to-look, like any older or classic car/truck, the parts are there OEM or aftermarket.

Most bearings/seals are available from any industrial supply house.
urbanpi  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 3:18:40 PM
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Either a full points ignition with no transistorized ignition module, or far, far better a mechanical ignition diesel engine.

ETA- But unless you are damm close to the blast, it will not be a huge issue/


I am looking at this from a societal breakdown angle as well, so just to have a "box" setup that could be installed in the event of a sensor or ECM failure, when access to spare parts might be difficult.
Saddler  [Member]
1/22/2010 3:25:03 PM
Originally Posted By PugglePod9000:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Either a full points ignition with no transistorized ignition module, or far, far better a mechanical ignition diesel engine...


Mmmm....
(not just EMP-proof, it's just about everything-proof! )

http://www.unimogs.nl/unimog%20136.jpg



including proofed against EVER being stylish!!
staringback05  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 3:29:47 PM
someone posted a date on here, i cant remember exactly when the obd 1 systems began...mid 70's...
you have to realize that EMP effects all vehicles differently, someone else also posted a test on alot of vehicles
actually newer vehicles that WERE TURNED OFF at the time, actually sustained very little damage, while cars that
were on just shut off and some just had electrical problems like light failure or radio issues...small problems...

personally id go with a carbuorated setup and would be fine...
Garand_Shooter  [Dealer]
1/22/2010 3:38:22 PM
Originally Posted By PugglePod9000:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:I had a Unimog for a while. A fun toy, but I wouldn't even consider it as a serious BOV because parts are not readily available and would be even harder to scrounge.


I disagree.
I have one and it is my daily driver... Most parts are stil available from Mercedes.
Once you get used to where-to-look, like any older or classic car/truck, the parts are there OEM or aftermarket.

Most bearings/seals are available from any industrial supply house.


True- but when times are tough, the Mercedes dealer isn't open and waiting a few weeks for the parts to come from the mail order house is a no-go.

My local parts houses all keep parts for an 80's or 90's Chevy Diesel pickup on hand, and there are hundreds of thousands of used Chevy pickups out on the road to scavange from.

Take a Katrina style event- say you busted an axle. My Chevy pickup I could find another Chevy pickup and get the parts or a full axle. Good luck finding a Unimog axle. Same for a starter, alternator, etc. Say you have an economic SHTF- the local junkyards have tons of Chevy trucks I can buy or barter parts from. How many Unimogs in the local yards? I

If you can't get parts on hand locally, or at any location you may travel to, you are SOL in a SHTF event.

Thats why they are a fun toy, but I wouldn't take them seriously.
Garand_Shooter  [Dealer]
1/22/2010 3:40:47 PM
Originally Posted By urbanpi:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Either a full points ignition with no transistorized ignition module, or far, far better a mechanical ignition diesel engine.

ETA- But unless you are damm close to the blast, it will not be a huge issue/


I am looking at this from a societal breakdown angle as well, so just to have a "box" setup that could be installed in the event of a sensor or ECM failure, when access to spare parts might be difficult.


In a modern vehicle keep in mind your transmission is computer controlled, the fan probably is, all sorts of stuff. A non-computer retrofit gets more and more complicated as the vehcile gets newer.
Wayward_Texan  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 4:33:16 PM
I have an '88 Chevy Blazer.. stored in the shed is a points type dizzy, a ballast resistor, a coil, an old school 4 barrel intake and a holley 650...
the problem is gonna be fuel. I have a mech pump as well... but the block isn't machined to accept a mech pump...

IIRC.. OBD1 started in 1981.. not positive on that though.
Garand_Shooter  [Dealer]
1/22/2010 4:43:51 PM
Originally Posted By Wayward_Texan:
I have an '88 Chevy Blazer.. stored in the shed is a points type dizzy, a ballast resistor, a coil, an old school 4 barrel intake and a holley 650...
the problem is gonna be fuel. I have a mech pump as well... but the block isn't machined to accept a mech pump...

IIRC.. OBD1 started in 1981.. not positive on that though.


Souldn't be anything solid state to fail in the basic aftermarket 12v pumps.
CWO  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 5:51:23 PM
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.


Are you are of a commercial vehicle with EMP shielding? What "shielding"?
ar-jedi  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 5:56:01 PM
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.

Are you are of a commercial vehicle with EMP shielding? What "shielding"?

haven't you learned ANYTHING about SF EMP Theory since Nov 2001?

ar-jedi
migradog  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 5:59:24 PM
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.


Just like this one..eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj54FcI7_dE
CWO  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 6:04:38 PM
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.

Are you are of a commercial vehicle with EMP shielding? What "shielding"?

haven't you learned ANYTHING about SF EMP Theory since Nov 2001?

ar-jedi


Everything I know I learned from Mister Science.
ar-jedi  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 6:44:27 PM
Originally Posted By migradog:
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.

Just like this one..eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj54FcI7_dE

here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

ar-jedi
goombah  [Member]
1/22/2010 6:54:54 PM
NoStockBikes  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 7:45:54 PM

Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.

Are you are of a commercial vehicle with EMP shielding? What "shielding"?

haven't you learned ANYTHING about SF EMP Theory since Nov 2001?

ar-jedi

Since 2007, I have learned that EMPs will kill us all, they are way overrated and won't really do anything, everything that is turned off will be ok unless it's not ok, because it doesn't matter if it's turned on or off, you can build a faraday cage in your basement, but you can't build a faraday cage in your basement because they don't work unless you spend millions of dollars, but a plastic bag will save small things from EMPs if they are in the bag ahead of time and are not damaged by the EMP.

It's crystal clear, really. I don't know what to think, except that it could be bad if it worked as advertised.
CWO  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 8:46:19 PM
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.

Are you are of a commercial vehicle with EMP shielding? What "shielding"?

haven't you learned ANYTHING about SF EMP Theory since Nov 2001?

ar-jedi

Since 2007, I have learned that EMPs will kill us all, they are way overrated and won't really do anything, everything that is turned off will be ok unless it's not ok, because it doesn't matter if it's turned on or off, you can build a faraday cage in your basement, but you can't build a faraday cage in your basement because they don't work unless you spend millions of dollars, but a plastic bag will save small things from EMPs if they are in the bag ahead of time and are not damaged by the EMP.

It's crystal clear, really. I don't know what to think, except that it could be bad if it worked as advertised.


Advice: Listen to the advice from people who have worked with EMP and ignore the simplistic declarations of those who haven't. This should clarify things considerably.
NoStockBikes  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 9:05:31 PM

Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.

Are you are of a commercial vehicle with EMP shielding? What "shielding"?

haven't you learned ANYTHING about SF EMP Theory since Nov 2001?

ar-jedi

Since 2007, I have learned that EMPs will kill us all, they are way overrated and won't really do anything, everything that is turned off will be ok unless it's not ok, because it doesn't matter if it's turned on or off, you can build a faraday cage in your basement, but you can't build a faraday cage in your basement because they don't work unless you spend millions of dollars, but a plastic bag will save small things from EMPs if they are in the bag ahead of time and are not damaged by the EMP.

It's crystal clear, really. I don't know what to think, except that it could be bad if it worked as advertised.


Advice: Listen to the advice from people who have worked with EMP and ignore the simplistic declarations of those who haven't. This should clarify things considerably.
That works if we know who they are. Sometimes it's obvious when someone speaks of their experiences, but in general threads it's not always clear who the experts are. I know I've seen technical discussions on faraday cages, but I couldn't tell you who the experts were. Someone needs to sell programs so we can keep up with who's who in threads.

R2point0  [Member]
1/22/2010 9:25:20 PM
VW diesels pre-TDI. Buy a normally aspirated one, and it will run forever with a few spare timing belts. And parts for VW A1 and A2 chassis (Rabbit/golf/Jetta) are pretty plentiful.

I have a TDI, and I'm keeping my eye out for a spare brain. It's a good spare to have anyway, and storing it in a .30 cal ammo can won't hurt anything.
Sniperbait  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 9:40:43 PM
Before 9/11 the big military concern ($$$) was going to be an EMP strike. The panel on EMP that is discussed at the beginning of One Second After. Reports the kind of damage portrayed in the book. After the commitment to fighting in Iraq. We couldn't afford to harden anything. So a second panel was called to determined that there was nothing to worry about.

There has been actual attacks by EMP on unsuspecting civilian populations. These tests were carried out by the soviets on there own cities. This TEST had poor shot placement and less then desirable yield. Yet still was capable of taking out 1950's era diesel generators.

Just keep in mind when you ask questions that involve top secret weapons systems. You will only know what our gov-ment or our enemies wants you to know.

CWO  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 9:50:27 PM
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.

Are you are of a commercial vehicle with EMP shielding? What "shielding"?

haven't you learned ANYTHING about SF EMP Theory since Nov 2001?

ar-jedi

Since 2007, I have learned that EMPs will kill us all, they are way overrated and won't really do anything, everything that is turned off will be ok unless it's not ok, because it doesn't matter if it's turned on or off, you can build a faraday cage in your basement, but you can't build a faraday cage in your basement because they don't work unless you spend millions of dollars, but a plastic bag will save small things from EMPs if they are in the bag ahead of time and are not damaged by the EMP.

It's crystal clear, really. I don't know what to think, except that it could be bad if it worked as advertised.


Advice: Listen to the advice from people who have worked with EMP and ignore the simplistic declarations of those who haven't. This should clarify things considerably.
That works if we know who they are. Sometimes it's obvious when someone speaks of their experiences, but in general threads it's not always clear who the experts are. I know I've seen technical discussions on faraday cages, but I couldn't tell you who the experts were. Someone needs to sell programs so we can keep up with who's who in threads.



Fair enough.

Try this:

When someone posts a declaration that an anti-static bag makes an effective EMP shielded enclosure - ask them to state their professional experience that leads them to that statement. Ask them how X solution has been tested. Supposition without any testing is simply - supposition. When it comes to EMP - there is "Certain and The Dead". Guessing will result in failure.

If someone writes how simple it is to construct a Faraday cage in your basement - ask for photos of THEIRS. Ask them what materials they used. Ask them how much the copper screening cost. Ask them how they bond and seal the edges/joints. Ask them how they constructed the floor. Ask them if they have ever even SEEN a real Faraday cage - and where (the last one that I saw was inside of a mountain). My favorite was the thread on "Can I make my garage EMP-proof with aluminum foil?".

Challenge simplistic claims. Ask the poster to back it up with fact, science and experience (not "I read it online").

Avoid assumptions that EMP will "destroy everything" or "X will be fine". Those with testing experience can give you informed 'best guesses' - but they are still guesses. (We can also tell you that creative solutions conjured from someone's imagination have something between little chance and a snowball's chance of working).

One last piece of advice from my work in this field: Think your concerns and preparations ALL of the way through. Not just the protection - but your assumptions of what you are going to do with the protected item/system AFTER the event. Protecting a piece of equipment is a 360-degree problem/protection dimension. You can do 12 things right - and one vulnerability you never considered and make it all ineffective. This includes operational assumptions (such as the availability of pumped gasoline/electricity/radio broadcasts etc etc etc etc etc). After many careful operational studies - I learned to assume NOTHING.

Ask questions. Challenge conventional assumptions.
nate1865  [Member]
1/22/2010 9:55:59 PM
For my situation, there are many, many, many things more important to preparing than having an EMP-proof vehicle. That seems incredibly improbable in my book.
Surf  [Team Member]
1/22/2010 10:55:24 PM
Originally Posted By R2point0:
VW diesels pre-TDI. Buy a normally aspirated one, and it will run forever with a few spare timing belts. And parts for VW A1 and A2 chassis (Rabbit/golf/Jetta) are pretty plentiful.

I have a TDI, and I'm keeping my eye out for a spare brain. It's a good spare to have anyway, and storing it in a .30 cal ammo can won't hurt anything.


What about an old VW bug engine for something like a dune buggy?

SShockwave  [Member]
1/22/2010 11:10:03 PM
Ok, this is not hard but I can only speak to GM V8 powered vehicles mainly Camaros and trucks so here goes.......

Computer stuff:
OBD1 started in 1994 for most GM V8 cars and trucks.

Read only memory
1981ish through 1993ish used a PROM chip type computer to control the HEI electronic distributor as well as fuel injection on most 1988-1993s. 1987 for the most part was the last year a carburetor was offered on most GM V8s.

OBDII started in 1996ish and runs through today.

Transmission electronics; 1995ish saw the start of transmissions with an electronic control module mainly for the lock up on the torque converter.

The small block 350 is pretty much is unchanged from 1967-1986. You can run just about any brand carb'd intake manifold on these year engines as they were not built with fuel injection in mind.
1987+ (non vortec) were machined for 1 piece rear main seals (not a big deal) and roller cam shafts. These engines can be easiliy retro fitted with a carbureator and points (non HEI) distributor.

Now here's the tricky part, in 1992 GM came out with the LT1 in the Corvette and then offered it in the Camaro/ in 1993. This engine uses different reference flow cooling heads and an electronic eye cam driven distributor. You can retro the LT1 to a carb'd setup but you must put non LT1 heads on it.

If you have a 96-98 5.7 Vortec powered truck, you can retro it to use a carb BUT........ you must get a vortec specific carb intake manifold. The vortec heads will NOT match up to a standard SBC intake.


So basically any GM V8 from 1995 and earlier that is either already carb'd or has TBI fuel injection can easiliy be retro'd to a points distributor and carbureator


semperfiws6  [Member]
1/22/2010 11:42:36 PM
Still extremely foggy on what would hold up. Didnt realize this was such a hazy topic.
ar-jedi  [Team Member]
1/23/2010 12:23:45 AM
Originally Posted By semperfiws6:
Still extremely foggy on what would hold up. Didnt realize this was such a hazy topic.

it's extremely simple to explain.

as TJ is known to point out, plan for the most likely scenarios first.

the most likely scenario involving your car is an accident, not an EMP. more than 38,000 people die per year in auto accidents, and roughly 10 times that are seriously injured. no matter how good of a driver you are, no matter where you live, you are at relatively high risk every time you are behind the wheel.

summary: buy the safest car you can afford to (as the most likely scenario is you will be in an accident), not the car that is thought to be most resistant to EMP (as it is extremely unlikely that the vehicle would ever be impaired by an EMP). and the safest car is not an old car, as many studies and crash tests have shown...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81rZzcf3dF8

ar-jedi
diehippy  [Member]
1/23/2010 12:29:53 AM
good horses can be purchased really cheap these days.
odontia32m  [Team Member]
1/23/2010 12:38:49 AM
What does a bargain basement unimog go for?
shibumiseeker  [Member]
1/23/2010 12:42:27 AM
Originally Posted By diehippy:
good horses can be purchased really cheap these days.


Yeah but getting it to stand still while you wrap it in foil is a bitch.


Skibane  [Team Member]
1/23/2010 3:47:35 AM
Looking for an "EMP-proof" vehicle is a waste of time, simply because most vehicles are already pretty close to being "EMP-proof".

Here's an excerpt from the Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack, Chapter 6, Page 115:



The results demonstrate that even modern, computer-laden automobiles are unlikely to sustain any significant EMP damage.
PugglePod9000  [Member]
1/23/2010 9:43:45 AM
Originally Posted By odontia32m:
What does a bargain basement unimog go for?


I paid 7K for one with less than 8000KM on the odometer, less than 2000 hours on the engine, and in good physical shape.
(an exceptional find -but they are out there for 7-12K in good shape if you keep looking)

You will never wear one out in normal service.
The axles are some of **if not THE strongest made**.
Unless you are jumping boulders a LOT -you will not break one.
The Diesel is simple. Mechanical injection, NO glow plugs, no fancy shit.
The alternator looks like any other v-belt alternator. I gaurantee I could fit a Ford/Chevy/Chrystler one in there
with a few shims and maybe some light wiring work -if I had to... but once you get it started it takes no power to keep it running.
I can get a LOT of starts out of the two Optima yellow-top batteries in it.

A couple of fan belts, some starter brushes, oil and fuel are all it takes to keep one running just about forever...

It is maybe not everyones cup of tea, but we all have to live with what we're comfortable with.


GaryM  [Team Member]
1/23/2010 1:53:12 PM
Simply line your garage (parking bunker) with tin foil. Be sure to ground it! Also makes it a safe refuge so the .gov "beams" can't get into your head and turn you into a drone.
ar-jedi  [Team Member]
1/23/2010 2:42:54 PM
Originally Posted By GaryM:
Simply line your garage (parking bunker) with tin foil. Be sure to ground it!

that won't work, at all.
morever, grounding has no bearing whatsover on Faraday cage effectiveness.

ar-jedi
1LTfptg  [Member]
1/23/2010 5:28:54 PM
Originally Posted By Saddler:
Originally Posted By PugglePod9000:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Either a full points ignition with no transistorized ignition module, or far, far better a mechanical ignition diesel engine...


Mmmm....
(not just EMP-proof, it's just about everything-proof! )

http://www.unimogs.nl/unimog%20136.jpg



including proofed against EVER being stylish!!


Stylish, STYLISH! what the hell Nancy boy.








tiberias  [Team Member]
1/24/2010 10:38:39 AM

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Looking for an "EMP-proof" vehicle is a waste of time, simply because most vehicles are already pretty close to being "EMP-proof".

Here's an excerpt from the Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack, Chapter 6, Page 115:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3899/caremptestresults.gif


The results demonstrate that even modern, computer-laden automobiles are unlikely to sustain any significant EMP damage.

+1 This really should be stickied.

In the study by the "experts", EMP effects on vehicles will be minimal. The major effect will be on power lines, not cars.

The world coming to an end due to EMP is highly unlikely.
ar-jedi  [Team Member]
1/24/2010 10:41:09 AM
Originally Posted By tiberias:
The world coming to an end due to EMP is highly unlikely.

great, you went and ruined the SF fantasy-of-the-month.

i suppose the easter bunny doesn't exist either?

ar-jedi
jeepranch  [Member]
1/24/2010 1:19:45 PM
Originally Posted By Fullpower:
Old school Diesel is the way to go.
Find an old one ton pick-up, stick a 4BT Cummins, or a 4-53 Detroit Diesel, or a little Perkins and a
5 Speed and there you go, drive it fifty years, hand it off to your grandson.


This is good advice period for any survival situation. If you are really set up, put an air start on it, then all you need is a bicycle pump to charge it (may take you a couple of days)

the source of EMP will make a big difference, and as complex as current electronics systems are, who really knows. If the gov really wants to shut down an area (power, communications, vehicles) they can do it with tactical emp weapons.

on the other had, there several different scenarios for nuke emp, some of them are are extremely ugly others are not. You want to play the odds? be my guest, but fullpower's advice is the best. Make it better with an air starting system.
PA22-400  [Team Member]
1/24/2010 1:30:55 PM
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By tiberias:
The world coming to an end due to EMP is highly unlikely.

great, you went and ruined the SF fantasy-of-last-half-of-the-month.

i suppose the easter bunny doesn't exist either?

ar-jedi


You know this topic comes up regularly

Country_Boy  [Team Member]
1/24/2010 7:13:19 PM
Originally Posted By migradog:
Originally Posted By shibumiseeker:
Virtually all modern vehicles are EMP proof. Fiction writers aside, the shielding around modern vehicle computers is very, very good.


Just like this one..eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj54FcI7_dE


We really need to start using the term NEMP (nuclear EMP). As superconducting physics improve, and the increased damage a wheapon would do, there is going to be a constant increase in the EMP levels produced by land based generators. It kind of like discussing terminal balistics, when some guys mentions he shot at a jeep once and the bullet killed everyone in the jeep, sent the jeep flying, and there was nothing left but a crater., As everyone calls BS, he points out he was a fire control officer on the USS Iowa.

While I've never played with EMP simulators (only test sets), I did fry a cell phone , laptop, and Moto HT360 with an HF rig (10k watts into a 70' Log periodic antenna- figure at least 100,000 watts EIRP for a 10 minute keydown) None of this should have happened in a real NEMP event. God only knows what the latest Ebombs would do. Having said that, it's not the situation 99.9% of the people on here ask about, anymore then we debate 12" vs 16" guns.
Skibane  [Team Member]
1/24/2010 8:18:51 PM
Originally Posted By Country_Boy:
We really need to start using the term NEMP (nuclear EMP).


That's a HUGE +1.

NEMP - and particularly the kind of EMP produced by a high-altitude nuclear detonation (HEMP) - is the only kind of EMP most of us are ever likely to directly encounter (as though encountering any kind of EMP was "likely"! ). The other kinds EMP commonly bandied about on the internet are limited in range, and thus aren't of much threat to the average citizen (unless you happen to live very close to some high-value military or terrorism target). Conversely, HEMP is capable of affecting large segments of the entire continent. For these reasons, HEMP was the primary focus of the Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack I previously mentioned.

BOTTOM LINE:
1. HEMP: Has tremendous range and destructive potential, but most vehicles are unaffected by it.
2. Other types of EMP: May be capable of damaging some vehicles, but range is too limited to reach most Americans.
Halffast  [Team Member]
1/24/2010 8:44:42 PM
Sometimes I think this is all my fault.
PA22-400  [Team Member]
1/24/2010 9:02:40 PM
Originally Posted By Halffast:
Sometimes I think this is all my fault.


semperfiws6  [Member]
1/24/2010 10:09:26 PM
Originally Posted By jeepranch:
Originally Posted By Fullpower:
Old school Diesel is the way to go.
Find an old one ton pick-up, stick a 4BT Cummins, or a 4-53 Detroit Diesel, or a little Perkins and a
5 Speed and there you go, drive it fifty years, hand it off to your grandson.


This is good advice period for any survival situation. If you are really set up, put an air start on it, then all you need is a bicycle pump to charge it (may take you a couple of days)

the source of EMP will make a big difference, and as complex as current electronics systems are, who really knows. If the gov really wants to shut down an area (power, communications, vehicles) they can do it with tactical emp weapons.

on the other had, there several different scenarios for nuke emp, some of them are are extremely ugly others are not. You want to play the odds? be my guest, but fullpower's advice is the best. Make it better with an air starting system.


What do you mean by "old school" diesel? Air start? Dont mean to sound ignorant on this, but I been an ignorant city boy my whole life and am trying to educate myself on this. Any good reading you could point me to would be appreciated.