AR15.Com Archives
 SHTF Antibiotics question ?
Cammsplace  [Member]
12/31/2007 7:42:44 AM EST
Hey gang... I'm really trying to get my med kit / overall knowledge together and being a novice at first aid etc... I have 2 questions:

1. What book(s), download-able pdf(s) or literature do you recommend a first aid novice to read and have on hand for first aid and more ? I need a good manual or reference guide to keep on hand in SHTF to cover minor first aid to bad trauma... I want to be best prepared so I can do as much as possible for my family now and if the SHTF.

2. What kind of antibiotics are out there that you can stock up on for SHTF ? Are there over the counter meds you can pick up ? I'm thinking if someone gets a nasty gash, gun shot, etc... to fight off infection in SHTF... what do you do or what do you use ?

As always... everyone thanks for your help !!

Camm
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ferfal308  [Member]
12/31/2007 11:05:20 AM EST
I stock Amoxicillin 500 and 800, and another kind for my son, which you mix with water , tastes like banana. I think it’s amoxcillin 250 or something like that.
I also have some of the 3 pill antibiotics, (one per day) I have some of this in my car SEK kit.

They last for a while but you have to rotate and buy new stuff because it looses strength pretty fast once it expires.

Some people buy vet stuff. I prefer the meds for humans, at least the instructions and indications are right :)
Take it as a small survival exercise, talking your way into getting these meds. Some med student, or doctor friend of yours. Ask around, you should be able to get it.

One of the skills you need to survive is a bit of sweet talking and getting what you want/need. You might as well practice that a bit for when you need other items, papers, documents, etc.

FerFAL
aaron_fsp  [Member]
12/31/2007 11:23:10 AM EST
You REALLY need to buy the book but heres a link
www.hesperian.org/publications_download_wtnd.php

And the old standby:

www.thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=medical/FM_4-25-11.pdf


Also take a CPR and First Aid course...they are cheap and you learn basic skills.
If you know someone who is a nurse or EMT, they can show you how to measure vital
signs and how to chart. If you buy a BP cuff, get a NON DIGITAL model that doesnt require
batteries, and practice, practice, practice.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6saTO8_o2g
www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kRS0wxIjg



runningman-2001  [Member]
12/31/2007 4:26:20 PM EST
They last for a while but you have to rotate and buy new stuff because it looses strength pretty fast once it expires.

Send me your "expired" stuff.....I'll put it to good use for another 10 years.

The Air Force and Army researched how long meds last, they have a lot of
money tied up in them. The answer from the drug companies was
that it lasted a lot longer than the expired by date on the bottle (if properly stored
in a cool dry place). Do a google search. Meds stored in your car would most likely
not last that long....but I wouldn't toss them. A script would start to lose it's
potency, not go bad or be totally useless.
Stinson342  [Member]
12/31/2007 5:10:45 PM EST
With regard to expired drugs:

Just about everything is effective for a couple of years past the expiration date if the drug is kept in a sealed container in a cool, dry, dark place. Drugs may be less effective (e.g., need a higher dose to work) as thay age but won't hurt you.

The one exception is tetracycline. Out of date tetracycline CAN KILL YOU, it can cause acute renal failure. Never take out of date tetracycline.
scrachline1  [Member]
12/31/2007 5:25:46 PM EST
buy the 12th edition Pill Book from amazon for 3 bucks used if you just wanna know about pills and what they used for - this is a neat book and you don't have to go on a hunt and seek mission like you do with the 20 buck used PDR. get your no prescription for most anti biotics from all day chemist.com before they are shut down by the US gov - web md and others will give you the same info but only one pill at a time and if the internet is down - get your pill book out and look at it.
EXPY37  [Member]
12/31/2007 8:59:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stinson342:
With regard to expired drugs:

Just about everything is effective for a couple of years past the expiration date if the drug is kept in a sealed container in a cool, dry, dark place. Drugs may be less effective (e.g., need a higher dose to work) as thay age but won't hurt you.

The one exception is tetracycline. Out of date tetracycline CAN KILL YOU, it can cause acute renal failure. Never take out of date tetracycline.


As stated above military studies have shown drugs last way longer than what you're saying. A friend took 1992 amox a month or so ago w/ desired effect.

NOT the modern tetracycline. It does not become poisonous because it is compounded differently than 20 yrs ago. .

Try to get a script for Amoxicillin and Clavulanic Acid [Augmentin].
ferfal308  [Member]
12/31/2007 10:16:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By runningman-2001:


Send me your "expired" stuff.....I'll put it to good use for another 10 years.

The Air Force and Army researched how long meds last, they have a lot of
money tied up in them. The answer from the drug companies was
that it lasted a lot longer than the expired by date on the bottle (if properly stored
in a cool dry place).


I heard about that test, but 10 years past exp. date for antibiotics? Are you sure?

Most other stuff I'll keep way beyond expiration date (even food) but antibiotics I'd go for 1 or two years past the exp. date tops. Just to make sure it's strong enough to kill the bug.

FerFAL
EXPY37  [Member]
12/31/2007 11:37:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By ferfal308:

I heard about that test, but 10 years past exp. date for antibiotics? Are you sure?

Most other stuff I'll keep way beyond expiration date (even food) but antibiotics I'd go for 1 or two years past the exp. date tops. Just to make sure it's strong enough to kill the bug.

FerFAL


Is your 3 pill med Azithromycin?

Ferfal, here you go, the text is lengthy and I don't want to C&P.

slep.dmsbfda.army.mil/slep/slep_info_paper_JAN_2006.doc

Table 1. Sample of SLEP Testing History

Product Length of Original Dating Average Total Years Extended Total Shelf Life Obtained
Atropine Sulfate 2mg/ml, 25ml multidose vial 2 years 13 years 15 years
Atropine 2mg/0.7ml Autoinjector 5 years 5 years 10 years
Atropine Sulfate Inhalation Aerosol 4 years 4 years 8 years
Pralidoxime Chloride 600mg/2ml Autoinjector 5 years 13 years 18 years
Pyridostigmine Bromide 30mg tablets 5 years 5 years 10 years
Diazepam 10mg/2ml Autoinjector 4 years 5 years 9 years
Doxycycline 100mg tablets 2 years 5 years 7 years
Ciprofloxacin 500mg tablets 3 years 10 years 13 years
Sodium Nitrite 300mg/10ml vial or ampoule 2 years 8 years 10 years
Sodium Thiosulfate 12.5gm/50ml vial 2 years 14 years 16 years



EXPY37  [Member]
12/31/2007 11:43:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cammsplace:
Hey gang... I'm really trying to get my med kit / overall knowledge together and being a novice at first aid etc... I have 2 questions:

1. What book(s), download-able pdf(s) or literature do you recommend a first aid novice to read and have on hand for first aid and more ? I need a good manual or reference guide to keep on hand in SHTF to cover minor first aid to bad trauma... I want to be best prepared so I can do as much as possible for my family now and if the SHTF.

2. What kind of antibiotics are out there that you can stock up on for SHTF ? Are there over the counter meds you can pick up ? I'm thinking if someone gets a nasty gash, gun shot, etc... to fight off infection in SHTF... what do you do or what do you use ?

As always... everyone thanks for your help !!

Camm
http://www.alldaychemist.com/
Mr_Psmith  [Team Member]
1/1/2008 1:12:05 PM EST
We should probably have a FAQ posting on this topic which comes up a lot.

Antibiotics are very specialized drugs and I do not recommend that you take them without consulting with a relevantly knowledgeable individual.

However, if you are keeping a store for the total breakdown of civil society etc., make sure you also get a copy of the bible:
DDog  [Member]
1/1/2008 1:22:18 PM EST
Honey can be used to fight infection in wounds, and you can eat it too. A 2 for 1 kinda deal.

Linky
Gammagoat  [Member]
1/1/2008 2:28:56 PM EST
Aside from the fish antibiotics of the usual type, I store Levaquin. It's a good deep tissue antibiotic.
JYogi  [Team Member]
1/1/2008 5:09:29 PM EST
Honey has MANY uses

Most important thing for starters is

1) Good first aid class and kit
2) Lots of GOOD medical books, you will be amazed at how much easier
some of the things will be if you have a book to help guide you even if its
things youve learned in first aid etc.
3) Ask your Dr for a good set of antibiotics. Just explain to him that you worry
about not always being able to get to the pharmacy when sick and would like to have
basic preps at home which of course you would not take without his consultation at first.
most good Dr's will have no problem with this
4) Get Tamiflu.... IF this bird flu thing does happen that seems to be what most people
are putting their hopes in.

Have LOTS of water.

And if you are REALLY lucky you can be like me...
My dad owns a drugstore and my GF is a Dr. haha
Tipsovr  [Team Member]
1/1/2008 5:09:31 PM EST
I have heard a number of folks talk about fish anitbiotics. Check out the following....

prices are cheap!

vetamerica.com

I'm not affiliated with them at all. Just had this info passed on to me.
Lancair  [Member]
1/1/2008 5:16:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By JYogi:
Honey has MANY uses

Most important thing for starters is

1) Good first aid class and kit
2) Lots of GOOD medical books, you will be amazed at how much easier
some of the things will be if you have a book to help guide you even if its
things youve learned in first aid etc.
3) Ask your Dr for a good set of antibiotics. Just explain to him that you worry
about not always being able to get to the pharmacy when sick and would like to have
basic preps at home which of course you would not take without his consultation at first.
most good Dr's will have no problem with this
4) Get Tamiflu.... IF this bird flu thing does happen that seems to be what most people
are putting their hopes in.

Have LOTS of water.

And if you are REALLY lucky you can be like me...
My dad owns a drugstore and my GF is a Dr. haha


It's always useful to have a doctor in the family.

Better still, go to medical school - then you can have all the no-questions-asked drugs you can eat!
mike-in-savannah  [Member]
1/1/2008 6:15:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lancair:

Originally Posted By JYogi:
Honey has MANY uses

Most important thing for starters is

1) Good first aid class and kit
2) Lots of GOOD medical books, you will be amazed at how much easier
some of the things will be if you have a book to help guide you even if its
things youve learned in first aid etc.
3) Ask your Dr for a good set of antibiotics. Just explain to him that you worry
about not always being able to get to the pharmacy when sick and would like to have
basic preps at home which of course you would not take without his consultation at first.
most good Dr's will have no problem with this
4) Get Tamiflu.... IF this bird flu thing does happen that seems to be what most people
are putting their hopes in.

Have LOTS of water.

And if you are REALLY lucky you can be like me...
My dad owns a drugstore and my GF is a Dr. haha


It's always useful to have a doctor in the family.

Better still, go to medical school - then you can have all the no-questions-asked drugs you can eat!


I wouldn't say that. There was recently a doctor here in west TN that was arrested be cause he was buying Hydrocodone with his DEA number and then selling them on the street (allegedly), case hasn;t gone to trial yet. Seems he had bought somewhere aroun 600,000 pills over the last couple of years. Sad thing about it is, this guy worked as one of our ER docs for a while.
HomeSlice  [Member]
1/1/2008 7:32:47 PM EST
Has anybody here used www.alldaychemist.com? Are these folks reliable and honest? Is what they ship the real stuff or junk? Is it an FBI/DEA rat-list? Please let us know any personal experiences out there...

I'm not sure what mechanism allows them to sell prescription-only meds over the internet? Seems like there has to be a catch here.

Thanks in advance.
scrachline1  [Member]
1/1/2008 8:31:35 PM EST
all day chemist -----yep - i used em and had at my extreme expense had their stuff chekked out - they are an indian reservation in canada and have no restrictions on selling name brand or rather their generic brand which are up to snuff - this is in ref to all day chemist - but then again buyer beware - i have no reservation from buying any thing from them and have a lotta stuff - bad thing is 24.99 ship charge - make a group buy or buy a lot like i did -- but - thats just me ---good luck
EXPY37  [Member]
1/1/2008 8:40:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By scrachline1:
all day chemist -----yep - i used em and had at my extreme expense had their stuff chekked out - they are an indian reservation in canada and have no restrictions on selling name brand or rather their generic brand which are up to snuff - this is in ref to all day chemist - but then again buyer beware - i have no reservation from buying any thing from them and have a lotta stuff - bad thing is 24.99 ship charge - make a group buy or buy a lot like i did -- but - thats just me ---good luck


They are a pharmacy in India. Call'em up and ask them.

HomeSlice  [Member]
1/1/2008 8:46:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By EXPY37:

Originally Posted By scrachline1:
all day chemist -----yep - i used em and had at my extreme expense had their stuff chekked out - they are an indian reservation in canada and have no restrictions on selling name brand or rather their generic brand which are up to snuff - this is in ref to all day chemist - but then again buyer beware - i have no reservation from buying any thing from them and have a lotta stuff - bad thing is 24.99 ship charge - make a group buy or buy a lot like i did -- but - thats just me ---good luck


They are a pharmacy in India. Call'em up and ask them.



Is that bad? Not trying to expose that I'm a dumbass, but...
ROMAD-556  [Member]
1/1/2008 10:16:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By aaron_fsp:
..the old standby:

http://www.thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=medical/FM_4-25-11.pdf



From my tacked thread here,

This is the current First Aid field manual with change 1 included, dated 2004

https://atiam.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/9553-1/fm/4-25.11/fm4_25x11.pdf



I choose to not hot link .mil websites but cut-n-paste should be easy 'nuf
EXPY37  [Member]
1/1/2008 10:55:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By HomeSlice:

Originally Posted By EXPY37:

Originally Posted By scrachline1:
all day chemist -----yep - i used em and had at my extreme expense had their stuff chekked out - they are an indian reservation in canada and have no restrictions on selling name brand or rather their generic brand which are up to snuff - this is in ref to all day chemist - but then again buyer beware - i have no reservation from buying any thing from them and have a lotta stuff - bad thing is 24.99 ship charge - make a group buy or buy a lot like i did -- but - thats just me ---good luck


They are a pharmacy in India. Call'em up and ask them.



Is that bad? Not trying to expose that I'm a dumbass, but...


Don't think so, India is a major producer of pharmaceuticals we use every day.
scrachline1  [Member]
1/3/2008 5:50:06 PM EST
don't wanna get in a pissin contest but the last 5 packages i got from alldaychemist came from canada - they may be in india - but somebody is shippin my stuff to me from canada - ill keep the mailer next time and post it -
EXPY37  [Member]
1/3/2008 6:15:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By scrachline1:
don't wanna get in a pissin contest but the last 5 packages i got from alldaychemist came from canada - they may be in india - but somebody is shippin my stuff to me from canada - ill keep the mailer next time and post it -


Take a look at their website.
Dregan  [Member]
1/4/2008 5:30:47 AM EST
My interest is piqued, but they are definately an Indian company. 91 is the Indian telephone calling code... But that doesn't really bother me, the more I think about it.

(from NetworkSolutions WHOIS DNS lookup):

Registrant:
Not Applicable
DW (derwood2005@hotmail.com)
SN
Dl
Dl,1
IN
Tel. +91.2132918410

Creation Date: 16-Sep-2002
Expiration Date: 16-Sep-2014

Domain servers in listed order:
ns1.premiumrxdrugs.com
ns2.premiumrxdrugs.com




Specop_007  [Member]
1/5/2008 2:14:08 PM EST
I have an essentially unlimited prescription for vibramycin, which is as follows....

GENERIC NAME: doxycycline
BRAND NAME: Vibramycin

DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Doxycycline is a synthetic broad-spectrum antibiotic derived from tetracycline. It is effective against a wide variety of bacteria, such as Hemophilus influenzae, Streptococcus pneumoniae, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Chlamydia psittaci, Chlamydia trachomatis, Neisseria gonorrhoea, and many others.

The way I got this was kind of silly. I suffer from acne. Nothing bad mind you, but damnit I'm near 30 years old I shouldnt have ANY acne. The doc prescribed this to me and said take 1 to 2 a day as needed. When I use it my acne clears up, when I dont I get a few pimples here and there.

But, the point is IF you have any acne at all you can get a pretty much unlimited prescription for this or some other variant of antibiotic.
dentist07  [Member]
1/5/2008 5:07:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
I have an essentially unlimited prescription for vibramycin, which is as follows....

GENERIC NAME: doxycycline
BRAND NAME: Vibramycin

DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Doxycycline is a synthetic broad-spectrum antibiotic derived from tetracycline. It is effective against a wide variety of bacteria, such as Hemophilus influenzae, Streptococcus pneumoniae, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Chlamydia psittaci, Chlamydia trachomatis, Neisseria gonorrhoea, and many others.

The way I got this was kind of silly. I suffer from acne. Nothing bad mind you, but damnit I'm near 30 years old I shouldnt have ANY acne. The doc prescribed this to me and said take 1 to 2 a day as needed. When I use it my acne clears up, when I dont I get a few pimples here and there.

But, the point is IF you have any acne at all you can get a pretty much unlimited prescription for this or some other variant of antibiotic.


Unfortunately taking the same antibiotics for prolonged periods leads to bacterial resistance. It would be nice to have an alternative to the doxy.
Sphinx  [Team Member]
1/5/2008 5:10:05 PM EST
Good info
insin  [Member]
1/5/2008 5:33:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
I have an essentially unlimited prescription for vibramycin, which is as follows....

GENERIC NAME: doxycycline
BRAND NAME: Vibramycin

DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Doxycycline is a synthetic broad-spectrum antibiotic derived from tetracycline. It is effective against a wide variety of bacteria, such as Hemophilus influenzae, Streptococcus pneumoniae, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Chlamydia psittaci, Chlamydia trachomatis, Neisseria gonorrhoea, and many others.

The way I got this was kind of silly. I suffer from acne. Nothing bad mind you, but damnit I'm near 30 years old I shouldnt have ANY acne. The doc prescribed this to me and said take 1 to 2 a day as needed. When I use it my acne clears up, when I dont I get a few pimples here and there.

But, the point is IF you have any acne at all you can get a pretty much unlimited prescription for this or some other variant of antibiotic.


As a pharmacist, I would not want to rely on doxycycline to treat much more than acne. It may be effective, and if thats your best bet then go with it.
Special-K  [Team Member]
1/5/2008 5:56:03 PM EST
I have a copy of the 'Special Forces Medical Handbook' in my library. Lots of information, but it's written in a way that isn't for the average joe - lots of medical and anatomical terms that are difficult to understand. It's also probably a bit outdated as it's the March of '82 version. It's pretty common though.




-K
Specop_007  [Member]
1/5/2008 5:57:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By insin:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
I have an essentially unlimited prescription for vibramycin, which is as follows....

GENERIC NAME: doxycycline
BRAND NAME: Vibramycin

DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Doxycycline is a synthetic broad-spectrum antibiotic derived from tetracycline. It is effective against a wide variety of bacteria, such as Hemophilus influenzae, Streptococcus pneumoniae, Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Chlamydia psittaci, Chlamydia trachomatis, Neisseria gonorrhoea, and many others.

The way I got this was kind of silly. I suffer from acne. Nothing bad mind you, but damnit I'm near 30 years old I shouldnt have ANY acne. The doc prescribed this to me and said take 1 to 2 a day as needed. When I use it my acne clears up, when I dont I get a few pimples here and there.

But, the point is IF you have any acne at all you can get a pretty much unlimited prescription for this or some other variant of antibiotic.


As a pharmacist, I would not want to rely on doxycycline to treat much more than acne. It may be effective, and if thats your best bet then go with it.


To coin the phrase...
"Beggers cant be choosers"
Obviously if given other options thats preferable, but if its all ya got, well its better then nothing!
camo_ken  [Team Member]
1/5/2008 7:19:48 PM EST
Hey guys,

How about epi?

My wife is allergic to nuts -not mine-, has anyone heard how long they last past expiration?


ETA: I have also successfully used oil of oregano to fight off infections, clove oil for anasthetic as well. They both work great
Mr_Psmith  [Team Member]
1/7/2008 1:41:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
To coin the phrase...
"Beggers cant be choosers"


Coining a phrase is when you invent a new phrase



Obviously if given other options thats preferable, but if its all ya got, well its better then nothing!


That does not logically follow. It could be equivalent to nothing.

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