live in a car in a midwest winter

ok so say a guy was gonna have to live in a 96 ford taurus during a midwest winter. snow, ice, subzero temps. you have no money or special equipment. you have the car, water bottles, blankets. no fancy cold weather clothes or money to get them etc. how do you keep the water from freezing ? how do you survive ? discuss

Go apologize to your parents for whatever you have done and they will let you move back in.......

1.Panhandle my way down to Florida.
2.Find an old industrial building to park in, and have a fire.
3.Break into homes of people on vacation for the winter.
4.Give up and die frozen.

The easiest way to keep water from freezing is to keep it above 32 degrees.

apologize or freeze to death.... then there is always driving to AZ or FLA for the winter....

ha ha not the case

i thought this was the sf ? think SHTF wise

Come over to St Louis and I'll give you a cot to sleep on in the house.
If you think you can survive in the most dangerous city in the US.

EDIT: to keep water from freezing you have to sleep with it/ or keep it in constant body contact.

Had a friend work through part of a winter in Jackson Hole, Wyoming years ago while working on hospital construction. He was living in an older chevy pickup. He only toughed it out as long as he did because he had a large german shepherd dog to help with body heat and was in a good sleeping bag. When he finally got a room he said it was so cold everyone was leaving trucks running around the clock.

I would think a candle lantern or coffee can candle stove would be a minimum. Wouldn't expect a person to last all winter in a car.

thanx for the offer and the water tip

room would be had when affordable. no dog , skinny woman and how would you run a stove or lantern in a car ?

your question is a little to real life

the best ones always are right ?

Doubt you would be driving far day to day in that situation, but if you were you could thaw that days water by leaving your canteen in the engine compartment on your way to work.

Or just get most of your water as needed, in liquid form, from a shelter/water fountain in a mall/etc

I guess there are a lot of people who live out of vans and SUV's with little problem. I just recently read a post about this very topic on another thread.

Put all your stuff in a storage unit.
Get the cheapest gym membership possible and you have access to showers and water.
You can sleep in public parking lots. Apartment complexes with guest parking are great. Don't sleep in your storage unit or in their parking lot.
Get blankets to cover your windows to help keep heat in if possible.
Not a huge issue in a car, but try to close off compartments that you aren't using, so you don't have as large of an area to heat. So, if you have fold down seats in the rear, but aren't sleeping with your legs in the trunk, keep the seats up so you don't lose heat to the trunk.

I work in remote country often and carry a small coffee can with several candles crowded in the bottom, with lid on it also makes a good place to stash extra lighter, granola bars, etc... My thoughts are to be able to light one or more wicks and use coffee can for small heat souce. Candle lantern is just a single candle in a windproof tube bodied holder.

Obviously with either of these a person is going to need to make sure air doesn't go bad. Have never had to try it myself but if my options are freeze or try my coffee can, I'm lighting a candle or two.

A lot of great info over on cheaprvliving.com

I guess my first thought would be to treat it like camping.

Tons and tons of calories. Expect to eat basically constantly to stay warm. Drink loads of water... have a giant piss bottle inside the car so you're not going outside and losing precious heat to take a leak.

I'd want down. Lots and lots of down. Barring that, some kind of good comforter with a shit-ton of loft.

The problem is that you're basically in a cold metal box with no real, serious insulation around you. In fact, the metal box is going to be sucking heat like a mother. A wind break like a tarp or something would go a long way to help keep you warm. At the extreme, consider getting batts of insulation and creating a sleeping compartment in the back seat... basically use the batts to create an insulated room. Hard to do is a tiny little taurus. If possible, I'd try to lay hands on a larger vehicle - like an SUV or something where I could store more gear and put in more insulation.

Seriously, I'd be aiming for at least a single layer of R-14 batt insulation. If I had the room, I'd damn sure be putting in as much insulation as I could cram in there. R-30 or better, here I come! Blankets and warm clothes are one thing, but having an insulated sleeping chamber is another thing entirely. Just make sure you have air holes.

As others have said, the best way to survive that situation is to simply not be in that situation. If I have no home, I can't imagine a reason to stay where I was...

If we're talking TEOTWAKI, then I'm going south where the winter is more survivable. If we're talking a personal SHTF, I'm going where-ever I can find a job that will provide me with suitable living arrangements.

What are you doing to purchase food? I would abandon the car and build myself a snow cave and live in there. If not enough snow then a lean to with snow piled around and ontop of for insulation. Put pine broughs, carboard, foam down and then the blankets. A single candle will light and warm up the cave to liveable conditions. Turn canteens/water bottles upside down as the tops of the containers will freeze first.

CD

ETA put some hot water bottles at your feet and on your stomach at night. Keep you warmer and then you have water to have breakfeast with.

I recently lived in my car on a project way out in the sticks, it was five weeks with weekends off. It wasn't winter yet, but what I did would work in the winter as well.

I used three self-inflating air mattresses and a good sleeping bag. I barely fit in the back of my Subaru Outback, a Ford Taurus would bring new meaning to the word uncomfortable. I ate mostly canned food, either not cooked or cooked over a camp stove. You would simply have to thaw your water and food over the stove (not in the car obviously). When it gets unbearably cold just fire the car up and heat it way up. Some of those foil heat blankets would be good to have. Keep the gas tank topped off. Really good thermal underwear would be a good thing. If I had to run a candle all night for heat, I'd put it in a steel bucket with a couple inches of sand in the bottom and put it somewhere that it won't get knocked over.

A car long enough to stretch out in makes the best tent there is. Keeps the bugs out, has air conditioning and a heater, and is wind and water proof. Requires little or no set-up.

candle. will produce an amazing amount of heat in an enclosed space. you won't be sitting in your undies, but you'll probably keep the water from freezing

I'm thinking if you are living in your car in the winter, then you don't have much tying you to that particular spot. You would obviously have no family or friends that were willing to put you up. If they aren't willing to put you up on a regular basis, it seems questionable what else they might offer, if they exist at all. You also must not have a job. If you do, it obviously isn't cutting it, or you wouldn't be in the car the whole winter, but just a month or two. I suppose it's also possible that you have a good job, you just make bad choices, which explains why no one loves you.

Given those circumstances, I say drive as far south as you can on a tank. Assuming it's not teotwawki, contact the local Salvation Army. They'll find a chuch to put you up at night. Probably something like 8:00p to 6:00a. Sure, you could store some ice in bottles in the car, but I'd fill up a gallon or two in the morning before leaving the church. Bigger the container the better.

Get some more money together, and repeat. Once you get down south enough, act like you don't speak English, and you'll be just fine.

I think I heard that a little whiskey will keep a gallon in a car from freezing entirely. Get yourself a sign that read's "need money for booze, no really!" You'd probably actually make more this way than any other. People appreciate honesty and humor.

LOL, that gave me a good lagh .

Many items may apply from this link:

http://guide2homelessness.blogspot.com/


Select ideas: avoid conflicts, keep dry & clean, avoid mind-altering substances (need wits more than ever), consider post office box (helps with jobs and family contact)...

+1 to adding insulation to car.

Good luck

Interesting thought invoking discussion.

Where I live there is often enough snow to partially bury the car to help hold in some heat. I can't imagine being without family and hope to get out of that kind of situation quickly.

+1

If the SHTF, I'm not living in m freaking car. Thats not a "survival" strategy.

Make sure you have 1 or 2 tire repair kits on hand. The plugs.

I wanted to come back to this thread because its something I have quite a bit of personal experience with.

With no special gear or money, I've not known anyone to make it other than a few days in dead of winter and in a passenger car then not get desperate and do something. Passenger cars just don't lean themselves to that type of harsh winter living. They're too air tight for proper heating especially makeshift heating and not enough room for access to much. Those who I know who made it the longest, mostly used the vehicle for nothing more than sleeping while using public facilities. They did things like hang out at Walmarts, used truck stop showers, and mostly stayed on the move. That takes money.

A neat little heater for cars is the Coleman Survival Cat, its catylitic propane and puts out about four candles. A candle will do as a minimum, they have no noxious fumes and take the edge off the cold (combined with your body BTUs) and a candle lantern or yacht lamp which you can hang is better than a candle.

The problem with the car is not sleeping, its actually a pretty nice sleep system compared to say a pack tent. Its in its lack of living space. One has to look at it like a tent where your living space is outside of the vehicle and vehicle when not moving is purely a sleeping space or place to get out of foul weather.

Now plant yourself down by a river bank with plenty of firewood, a person won't be in total comfort but can survive pretty well in winter in a car. Plant yourself in someone's drive and you won't be there long.

Tj

yeah i would follow most of what was in your post. no experience heating a car out side of with the motor. was homeless as a kid due to shitty parental issues and got along ok but that was the west coast and i had a lot of friends. dont think the cars gonna work

I was living out of my 93 explorer off and on during Katrina and Rita (moved to New Orleans 2 days before Katrina).


It's not HORRIBLE, I could see a regular passenger car being pretty uncomfortable.

Given the chance, and knowing you are going to be stuck living in a car for awhile, I'd mod the hell out of it.



I'd pull the passenger and rear seats out, and try to either pile stuff, or use scrap wood to build a sleeping platform, and get a cheap foam camp pad to lay on. (The 5-6" thick $10 variety).

I'd also use the same pads and cut them to size to fit into the windshield, and rear window. They insulate pretty well (used it on a bedroom window, you could feel the cold come off it from 10' away! stopped it, cold....!)

The better you can insulate the vehicle, the less heat you'll need.


I'd think about some way to create a vent. Cars don't have a large volume of air, and keeping the windows closed and a candle lit on top of breathing can burn up O2 quick. I don't know if keeping the heater vents open allows enough air in. I always left two windows cracked for a little cross flow, but it was war, where I was.

I was thinking about a vent system myself. I was curious how well you could breath through a snorkel hose. I've had to run wires and cables through my firewall before. I was thinking that a cheap plastic hose from the home improvement store would be able to fit through one of the holes in the firewall (knock out the plate and put a grommet in if you want) and you could just duct tape the hose to a snorkel. I don't know if the length of the hose would just have you breathing your own air or not though. It certainly be uncomfortable and desperate, but much better than being dead.

You won't suffocate sleeping in a car.

My post was meant to be used in conjunction with some sort of candle heating device. I've slept in my car many times, but never while I was burning something for warmth.

When I worked offshore diving, we had a Conex box that was turned into a dive shack. Pretty large volume, people going in and out all the time.


I went to grab an O2 sensor, and saw it was reading 16%. It was calibrated correctly and read 21% outside.


So, 1-2 guys breathing in a huge drafty box, smoking the occasional cigarette managed burn up a TON of oxygen. Yea, you MIGHT not suffocate in a car, but it's not a risk I would take.

I would find a way to keep a small amount of airflow.

I slept in a crew cab Dodge 3500 in the mid 30's for a few days at a truck run. Didnt run the heat because i didnt want to wake everyone running the diesel. It was cold. I couldnt imagine living in a small car in below freezing temps for any period of time.

I would exhaust every other option or outlet i had first before living in my car.

I worked with a guy last year on a pipeline job that lived on site in a VW Golf. He had folded the seats all down except driver and had then laid a sheet of plywood over them. Plywood was cut to carefully fit right up to dash, doors, and interior. He was in a sleeping bag and did this well into november in Colorado. Toward the end he was starting to complain that it was getting cold.

After thinking about my idea for a breathing system, it seems like it'd be smarter to just build a vent system for a candle lantern. That way the candle gets fresh outside air without stealing O2 from you.

I would love to attempt this challenge. If my wife wouldnt mind me disappearing for the whole winter.

By myself i fell that this would be fairly easy challenge to complete. Most of the stuff needed to insulate a vehicle for winter could be fould for free just by knowing where to look.

First: Is the vehicle mechanicly sound enough to make it threw? or is it stationary?

If the vehichle is going to be stationary setting it up as a base camp would be essential.
DUMPSTER DIVING is going to be your best freind. cardboard, newspaper, plastic bottlles, coffeee cans, pop cans, wood, anything flameable basicly. Also be aware of local churches , school, supermarkets that have used clothes donation drop off boxes. im sure that although you might not find ideal cloths you should be able to layers or stuff to use to insulate the car.
you need to be a scavenger( i wouldnt recommend stealing unless you are truely in a life or death situation), be aware of garbage a recycling days in the local neighborhoods. here in ny there is a 5cent deposit on soda cans so collect them to turn into cash. or even collect all metal you find and know the local scrap yards who buy scrap. many high income homes waste lots of food so garbage pickin there trash maygive you ample caloric intake. also dumpsters at residential construction sites would also have scraps of wood suitable to burn, and scrapes on insulattion to insulate the car. walmarts have great restrooms to clean up in and fill up water bottles.

If the car is your mobile home i would adjust this a little bit and use the GRAY MAN concept, where you just blend into your enviroment,(not you but your vehicle). you do not want your car screaming WELCOME TO OUR HOME. keep all your valubale and essential stuff in your trunk or cargo area when not in use to prevent having your stuff stolen.
make mental notes about stuff that i mentioned, and keep them in mind.

these are just a few things that come to mind. im sure there are many more.
just obviosly use common sense, dont have coffee can fires in a car with no ventilation. and what not.

This would be a commpletely different situation if you and everyother person in your area is dealing with the same situation,
But one person having to survive in a car in the midwest during the winter with virtually no other human to compete against i think that it would be fairly simple compaired to most SHTF scenarios.
OH and coffeecan heaters and engine compartments will keep water from freezing, they also work to warm bricks or stones that will help keep heat in the car,.

You're not going to be running the engine for heat, right? Right? A few kids in died in my AO doing that a couple of years ago.

Use a few foil space blankets to line the vehicle interior. There is a 3M low temp tape available. If not, just use duct tape to secure it over the windows, or close the door or window on to hold it position. That will stop heat loss through the windows. Make sure the foil blankets you choose aren't the chinese kind that turn into 3 inch squares when you need them most.

For heat, make a stove out of a #10 coffee can, if you can find one these days, and take the tube out of a roll of toilet paper. Put the TP in the can and soak with Isopropyl alcohol. It is supposed to burn without giving off CO. To snuff the flame, put the lid on the can.

For your vehicle, make sure your coolant is the right mix to handle the low temperatures. I'd suggest the lightest recommended grade full synthetic oil. It will flow and lubricate better at really low temperatures and your engine will be easier to start. Your battery will lose performance at cold temperatures and perhaps push a marginal battery to failure. You should try to protect a standard lead-acid battery from freezing. I have no suggestions for that, just keep in mind it's not good. Can you get an Optima battery? Make sure your alternator belt is not loose or glazed. A can of ether may help prevent running the battery down if it is hard to start one morning. That is also a reason to keep the engine as well tuned as possible.

I slept in a steel shipping container the winter of 2007 in Afghanistan above 6000 ft that wasn’t sealed that well. The only thing that made it livable was an electrical outlet and a heated mattress pad as the sleeping bags were not enough, even though the army said it was heated...
With an extension cord I would be willing to stay in my truck almost anywhere.
.

I'm no expert, but how is running your engine for heat, more deadly than burning an entire role of toilet paper stuffed inside a coffee can?

EDIT: By the way, we had a few -0 days over here in the beginning of this year. Because of my schedule, I would show up to work 3-4 hours early. Almost every single day I'd just sleep in my car in the parking lot with nothing but a beanie, parka, and a small, pink, polyester baby blanket draped over my knees. I've never been so comfortable. I would sleep for 2-3 hours at a time. Now I can sleep in my car like no one's business! The most important thing for me, was having enough blankets to roll up and put behind my neck to support my head. Car seats aren't exactly made for sleeping.

i would go behind some stores and get some cardboard and put it over the windows to help keep the heat in.

I sleep all the time in 20 degree weather in my semi. Nothing but a sleeping bag and a comforter over that to cover my face. Most of the time, its just my boxers, but if its really cold (under 20) fleece pants, long sleeve tshirt, and wool socks. My truck sleeping bag is a Walmart special, so no super deluxe $400 bag here. We really are adaptable to anything with the right attitude. I could install a $1000 heater to keep me warm, but I'm too cheap. I've done this for years now without a problem. if I know it will be under 10 degrees I try to run the truck only because starting it that cold can be iffy sometimes, as well as causing more wear and tear.

A small inverter and an electric blanket. That may be excellent provided the battery will keep up.

I've left plastic bottles of water in my car in the winter here in WNY and not had them freeze
and my drive to work is only about 10 minutes, not much time for the interior to warm up from the heater

That would use a lot of juice I would think. If you could plug in somewhere you could have a lot more options. But a great idea.

Unless said vehicle is parked inside a shelter to stay out of the wind you will die. You will die, maybe not immediately, but you will be found in the spring, covered in a layer of frost, inside your car. When the wind blows at 40+ mph and the snow is flying sideways for 3+ days at a time and the temps can drop to -50 deg F you would suffer hypothermia and die. People who are prepared for these storms can ride them out and then return to civilization. If the intent is to stay out there and ride out the next and the next and the next blizzard you will die. You'd be better off digging a cave into the side of a south facing hillside to gain some warmth from the earth and what little sun would be seen during the winter months. You could burn twisted buffalo grass or dried cow manure for heat, drink water out of stock dams and survive on what small game you could snare or shoot with a .22. Otherwise you will die.

Per my original post "It is supposed to burn without giving off CO." Also known as Carbon Monoxide, which is present in engine exhaust and if breathed in, absorbed 200 time more easily by your red blood cells than O2, also known as oxygen, and when you can't absorb oxygen you stop living, also known as death.

If you are burning the TP you are doing it wrong, it is only a wick for the alcohol, basically a big liquid candle. When the TP starts to char, snuff it and add more alcohol.

They don't freeze because of a quirk of physics. Superchilled water can be well below freezing and still liquid until the crystals have a catalyst or starting point like a piece of dust to form. If you open one of the bottles while it is that cold it will turn to icy slush in your hand in a few seconds.

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