How big was th RIF in the early 90's?

I noticed we lost about 6 divisions in the army, but anyone know/guess what the man power loss was?

At the end of fiscal year 1987, the active duty U.S. military was at its
post-Vietnam peak of 2,174,217 positions. The National Defense
Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1991 called for a fiscal year 1995 end
strength of 1,613,000 positions, about a 25-percent reduction, or
561,000 positions less than the fiscal year 1987 end-strength level. A
greater reduction target was subsequently put in place by the previous
administration, which, as of January 1993, was projecting an end strength
of 1,607,000 by the end of fiscal year 1995 and further reductions in
succeeding years. The current administration is reassessing its out-year
reduction plans beyond its fiscal year 1994 end-strength goal of 1,621,000.
The military personnel system is highly structured, with specific legal and
regulatory requirements governing career advancement and service
continuation. Thus, under this system, the services, even before the
current downsizing period began, would expect to lose and replace large
numbers of personnel each year.

The large multiyear Defense downsizing effort meant a period of greater
personnel turbulence than would otherwise exist and the potential for
significant numbers of persons to be separated involuntarily. Thus, the
Congress, concerned about the impact of force reductions, required that
the services, before carrying out involuntary reductions of career members
who were not eligible for retirement, implement procedures to limit
accessions and to reduce the populations of personnel having less than
6 years of service as well as the population of retirement eligible
personnel. Also, the Congress authorized certain measures, including the
use of financial separation incentives and other transition assistance to
facilitate downsizing and minimize the impact on individuals.

EDT: Here's the source: http://www.gao.gov/archive/1993/ns93241.pdf

Let me put it this way. RIF and the Early Out program had major long lasting affects. I was a 1SG in 1999 and only had 53% of my assigned strength. Even after 5-7 years after tyhe drawdown, we hadn't recovered. Of course my commanders were still reporting we were combat ready. WTF?

I was a victim of the RIF of 91. I had enlisted for four years, in 1989. While in Germany, in 90, I got in a good bit of trouble and was given a Bar to Reenlistment (by then-CPT, now BG Volesky, the current DCG-Manuever, 1st CAV). After closing down our BN, due to the Conventional Forces in Europe Agreement, I moved down the street, to our sister BN. While there, I cleaned up my act enough that my chain-of-command, from SQD LDR to Co. CDR and everyone in between, recommended that the BN CDR lift my Bar. He said he wished he could, but that HQ was after him to eliminate a lot of folks, because of the RiF, so he couldn't lift it. Since I still had a bit of time before my Bar was officially up for review, I still had the option of requesting and receiving an Honorable Discharge. Had I waited for the 1-year anniversary of my Bar being palced on me, I would have gotten a General Discharge.

So, I got out in NOV 91 and went home. After a few years, I began the process to get a waiver and reenlist. In NOV 96, I was able to do so, and served until being medically discharged in 2002, at the rank of SGT.

IIRC we lost 8 out of 18 divisions in the Regular Army, and I want to say 6 out of 13 in the National Guard. There were also some ACR's and separate brigades that got axed too, and the individual units that survived the cut were also smaller. The Air Force lost a similar portion, and the Navy a little bit less.

When we deployed to Bosnia during '98-'99, a very significant portion of our manpower was in the form of 'augmentees' from other units because we were understrength - yet they were still getting rid of entire MOS's and sending guys out on early retirements.


Notice how after this happened, it was the Democrats who complained that Bush was 'wearing out' and 'over extending' our military in Iraq and Afghanistan due to guys having to endure multiple deployments. In response, Bush tried to expand the Army by another 6 combat brigades. Within 0bama's first 3 or 4 months in office they terminated the expansion program and limited it to only the 3 brigades that had already been stood up, all light infantry IIRC.






-K

Which is why Lawyers should not be the CIC. The job is simply too important to hand to someone who has no idea what they are doing. It's like handing a 2 year old a grenade with the pin pulled and then asking them if they know what "cooking off the fuse" means...

Thanks for busting your ass to get back in when so many slackers do all they can to get out

At the end of the cold war the Army was at about 890,000 troops. USAREUR alone peaked at about 310,000, with about 290,000 in Germany alone. Each state in the US had a NG division, and some had parts of several others. If Gulf War I had started 18 months later, we wouldn't have had a big enough force to fight it the way we did because the drawdown had already started. By the time it was all over, (the drawdown that is), the Army was dowh to about 435,000, and NG divisions had been slashed by 66%.

Not an army situation but I was with a USMC Heavy lift sqd. flying CH53's and we got the boot.
Total force reduction sent my 8 years in the Corps down the drain. Got back from Desert Storm in late 91 and by late 92 had received my do not pass go, do not collect $200 papers.
Got out in Feb 93 with RE1A code but we had 3 things going against us.
I was with a Reserve sqd and flying older birds. They were being fased out. They shut down our Sqd. and they closed our base. All within a few years.
Don't know the head count we lost but half the sqd. was forced out. Not counting the reserve guys.

And I tried getting back in 3 times since and pretty much was gaffed off. USMC Prior service recruiters are'nt worth the air they breath in my oppinion. After trying twice I did a "try one for the guard" about a year after 9/11. Think I joined in Feb 02. Was not for me, so tried a third time to at least get back into the Marine Reserve, no dice. So at least I can say I tried
and support where is needed.

It was just as bad in the USAF... squadrons were being eliminated; airframes were killed... the 15 year early out for E5's wound up letting too many of the mid-tour experienced guys out and we had a serious dearth of experience... we had a bunch of new guys and a bunch of old guys... but there were few guys in the middle to replace the old guys that retired.

Lieutenants were coming out of pilot training and being told "There are no slots for you. Bye." And they were forced out... same thing for Captains... most of the guys that were contributing to the mission and wanted to stay in were forced out... the slackers that wanted out were made to stay in.

I was seperated in 1998 because the HYT (high year tenure) for E4 was changed from 12 years to 10, my career field had the 2nd highest cutoff in the USAF, and I was competing against 100 other airmen that were maxed out in their TOS, TIG, and medals... I didn't have any of that and... lost.

I'm glad I got out.

I was all set to go into the Army right out of high school in 1991 when alot of guys who graduated a few years before me all started getting out because of the RIF. Then when I started college there were tons of vets in every class I took. They all told me to just stay in school and wait out the RIF. Then a few years later the military was hurting for people and I joined up. Even in 2000 after the RIF was done you could even see how bad it affected things. My unit was only about 70 to 75% manned and we had so many waivers for security posting it wasn't even funny. We had no middle ranks. It was rare to see any E4's with more than four years in. You hardly saw an E6's. You either had E3's with two years in or an E6 with 17 years in. Then around 02 to 03 all the experienced guys started retiring and there was a ton of brain drain in my career field. We needed those guys experience really bad once the war started. We all had to learn stuff the hard way and had little no guidance. Then 9/11 hit and we had bodies falling from the sky and now alot of those folks stayed in with the economy taking a shit and they want to put more troops out on the street. I really question that logic.

Man, those are some long lasting negative effects, to have an impact that long!

You got me there! Thats why my english teachers always marked me down.

I was given the choice to get out or reclass into the 18 Series MOS because my old MOS was way overstrength witht he drawdown...ironically, it the greatest thing that ever happened to me. I went for SPC to E-8 in 8 years (TIS/TIG Waivers at every step of the way).

18B30, but really a Zulu

I saw this too as a spc. In 99 we were happy to get 8 man squads 7 was a norm we were suppose to be 9. I very rarely saw E-5 team leaders for both teams, and never saw E-5 squad leaders.

And I was in an Airborne unit so we had better rates of replacment than other units.

What was your previous MOS, if you don't mind my asking?

Big enough for me. I took an early out in '90 just before Desert Storm. I was in the Armor Officer's Advance Course. Most guys there were 1LT (P)'s and they came in said, "Who wants out early?" A bunch of guys raiser our hands and knocked a year off our obligations.

Funny thing is that they said we'd never really use tanks again in any major role. Oooops.

95B10 with a ST/SCI and assigned to MI School

So how many of you early-outters who posted got back in either AD or Guard when the need spiked again? I haven't seen that addressed in the thread.

I hit my ETS (U.S. Army 95B10) date and received an honorable discharge in 1992. I saw and knew the RIF was in effect. I went back to college and went in the reserves. I figured out the reserves were not squared away and went back into the IRR. If the RIF was not in effect I might have re enlisted in another MOS. But I did finish my degree after I got out. would not have traded my days in service for anything.

I resigned my comission in 1996 due to weight issues. I did not find any problems in getting out. The U.S. Army did provide me with the option of going to Korea for a year, but I declined. Sometimes I regret not taking the extra year in korea, but I was mad and not thinking straight at the time. I did serve again in the Texas State Guard for about eight years. Many in my family are glad that I got out when I did. It is hard to see the war and not be a part of it. I would not trade my service for anything else, as I would go back and do the same things again even knowing how it would end. As far as I am concerned, I think that I benefited from serving. Both of my degrees are a direct result of the military and the requirement to become an officer provided me with the best motivation in the World to complete my first degree, and pure pride in finishing my MA a few years later.

I got out under the buyout about a year after the Guld War. Frankly, I was pretty tired of the Army and not that interested in staying in. I had been in ten years, I was coming up for Major and my flying days were pretty much coming to an end. My marriage was shot. I knew that being in AV maintenance was going to suck hard due to the budget cuts, and I was simply tired of the general BS of the Army. At ten years, I was still young enough to start anew, and because of the buyout I wasn't really throwing away the ten years. If I had more than ten years, it would have made less sense to get out, but I was in the position of still being able to start a second life. Because of the pending divorce, starting fresh had a great deal of appeal. I honestly don't regret it at all. Especially since no one really could forsee any kind of real war going on in the future at the time. Certainly not one that would happen soon enough that I wouldn't be an old man by the time it happened.

After a couple years out I thought about going into the RC, but everytime I tried the process reminded me of the BS that I had gotten sick of in the Army. As time goes by, you tend to forget the bad and it was all rosy in memory until you try to call someone about getting back in and there's this wall of Army BS to contend with. After a successful carreer in the civillian world where I didn't have to deal with BS and it was all about results and efficiency, it just reminded me of why I took the buyout.

By the time of 9/11, I was too old. I called branch, and they said that frankly I was too old and because the Army no longer used anything I had flown, there was little point. In all honestly, I have to agree.

I served when I was needed back in the Cold War, but I'm really not needed anymore. No hard feelings on my part. I did what I did well, and I can look back with pride at my service, but I'm not vain enough to think I'm some genie that pops out of the bottle to save the nation. I was just a line dog who did his thing and it was time for younger folks to do the job.

It's hard to admit to being a "has been" but that's the way it is.

Pretty much how I am feeling now, but I've made it to 20.
I don't think its a bad thing to know when its time to go. Better than the old guy who hangs around forever way beyond his useful days.

I remember a lot of the aviation MOS's were hit hard during that time especially the UH-1 mechanics who were sent back stateside with huge fucking attitudes from Germany. My MOS was hit hard as well so I ETS'ed in 1995 as an E-4 because in order to make E-5 I needed at least an associates degree to max out my civilian education.

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