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 Tell me about Human Intelligence Collector (US Army)
Tarrif  [Team Member]
6/13/2010 11:34:11 AM EST
I'm a police officer in the NYPD in a plain-clothes anti-crime unit. My partner and I recently decided to join the U.S. Army reserves with the intention of serving our country while also advancing our careers. I don't want to be an MP. I really don't want a desk job. I'm a hands-on kinda guy and so is my partner. I've already done three deployments overseas for a PMC/DOD before I joined the NYPD. I know what I'm getting into in terms of commitment and risks. We've both taken the AFQT and ASVAB, and apparently I blew away both tests (I read a lot and was always good in school.) The recruiter recommended, based on my scores and my police background, that I would be good as a Human Intel Collector - starting first as enlisted then go to OCS once I've been placed. From what the recruiter is telling me its an "outside the wire" job which involves going on patrols and dealing with the local populace, separating the wolves from the sheep. Its kinda what I do right now in Brooklyn but of course not exactly.

Does that sound right or is the recruiter bullshitting me?

Any Hum Int people out there that wouldn't mind me asking some questions before I sign on the dotted line?

Thanks.
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SSeric02  [Team Member]
6/13/2010 11:55:16 AM EST
Recruiter is giving you good advice except maybe the OCS part. Huminters basically run confidential informants. As an officer you'll take on more of an admin and liason role than as a collector running CIs. I'm not sure, but I believe the Army has a Warrant Officer MOS in that career field as well, which would be my recommendation for you later on down the road if you want to keep your hands dirty. Here's a good place to start: http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=152 You can probably find more if you google "army 35M" as well.
Assault-Rifle-City  [Team Member]
6/13/2010 2:23:56 PM EST
if hes an enlisted recruiter dont listen to jack shit he tells you about becoming an officer or officer opportunities. if you dont have OCS in in your contract when you ship, you probably wont see it for quite some time. I dont know what the reserves is like but from my understanding AD has an 18 month wait for OCS.
Tarrif  [Team Member]
6/13/2010 4:43:28 PM EST
He's a SSgt who just finished his OCS school so I don't know what to consider him at this time. From what I understand he's one of the better recruiters in the NYC area. The rational for joining enlisted then going officer is that its easier to be placed as an officer if you go to OCS from a parent unit. At least that's what he's telling me. I'd prefer to go in as an officer from the get-go. It might be better for me to be enlisted anyway because I really do prefer to be hands on instead of administrative, but again I don't know a damn thing about it.
SSeric02  [Team Member]
6/13/2010 8:14:13 PM EST
In the Army, MI officers all go through the same basic MIOBC and are all "basic" MI until they go through the Captain's Course at which point they specialize into different categories like CI/HUMINT, ELINT, and IMINT, so that's another thing to consider.
Sgt_Gold  [Team Member]
6/22/2010 7:07:11 AM EST
They ALWAYS recommend you go enlisted first, it's their job. If you qualify for OCS, (i.e. college grad), then you really want to start out as an officer. Going from enlisted to officer does not guarantee you the same branch. PM sent with some inside info.

Originally Posted By Tarrif:
The recruiter recommended, based on my scores and my police background, that I would be good as a Human Intel Collector - starting first as enlisted then go to OCS once I've been placed.
Thanks.


Tarrif  [Team Member]
6/22/2010 5:38:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
They ALWAYS recommend you go enlisted first, it's their job. If you qualify for OCS, (i.e. college grad), then you really want to start out as an officer. Going from enlisted to officer does not guarantee you the same branch. PM sent with some inside info.

Originally Posted By Tarrif:
The recruiter recommended, based on my scores and my police background, that I would be good as a Human Intel Collector - starting first as enlisted then go to OCS once I've been placed.
Thanks.




I have a masters degree already, so I assume that qualifies me for OCS. My partner, however, does not have any degree at all. Do you happen to know if we can still go through boot together in the buddy program?
Sgt_Gold  [Team Member]
6/22/2010 5:45:46 PM EST
You are good to go with a master degree. It may be possible to go through basic on the buddy system, but a recruiter would know for sure.

Originally Posted By Tarrif:
I have a masters degree already, so I assume that qualifies me for OCS. My partner, however, does not have any degree at all. Do you happen to know if we can still go through boot together in the buddy program?


ReconB4  [Member]
6/23/2010 11:51:48 AM EST
You will be working in an MI unit and you won't be going "outside the wire" on patrols. On rare occassion you may go with another unit for some reason, but primarily not. It is a desk job. HUMINT collection is done by BN recon teams, LRSU and SF. All that intel is processed by the MI guys and redistribuited. Hopefully you can see where this is leading, a desk for most part.

Also you'll find that there are no combat arms jobs in the reserves, they are made up of support and combat support units. If you're looking for something more than that, check the Guard as they have combat arms.
Tarrif  [Team Member]
6/23/2010 3:18:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
You will be working in an MI unit and you won't be going "outside the wire" on patrols. On rare occassion you may go with another unit for some reason, but primarily not. It is a desk job. HUMINT collection is done by BN recon teams, LRSU and SF. All that intel is processed by the MI guys and redistribuited. Hopefully you can see where this is leading, a desk for most part.

Also you'll find that there are no combat arms jobs in the reserves, they are made up of support and combat support units. If you're looking for something more than that, check the Guard as they have combat arms.


It sounds like the recruiters spiel about us utilizing our police street experience to interact with the public and weed out the good from the bad sounds like bullshit. I've got an appointment with my recruiter on Friday. Maybe get some more info about this before signing on the dotted line.

Thanks so much for the help!
pevrs114  [Team Member]
6/23/2010 3:35:39 PM EST
Find the unit he's looking to put you in, go there, and talk to THEM. Get the real deal scoop on what it is they do.
exman98  [Team Member]
6/23/2010 4:39:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Assault-Rifle-City:
if hes an enlisted recruiter dont listen to jack shit he tells you about becoming an officer or officer opportunities. if you dont have OCS in in your contract when you ship, you probably wont see it for quite some time. I dont know what the reserves is like but from my understanding AD has an 18 month wait for OCS.


THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Recently going through this process myself... I am telling you that you wont see OCS for a while if you go the enlisted route. You need to have the 09S as your "MOS" going in. 09S basically is your AIT... but it is OCS. You will then go to your officer branch school. I have known to many people that were tricked out of doing OCS first and are still trying to do paper work to get into OCS 3 years later. You need to start working on this now if this is something you really wanna do. There is a long wait to get into OCS.
SSeric02  [Team Member]
6/23/2010 4:53:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tarrif:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
You will be working in an MI unit and you won't be going "outside the wire" on patrols. On rare occassion you may go with another unit for some reason, but primarily not. It is a desk job. HUMINT collection is done by BN recon teams, LRSU and SF. All that intel is processed by the MI guys and redistribuited. Hopefully you can see where this is leading, a desk for most part.

Also you'll find that there are no combat arms jobs in the reserves, they are made up of support and combat support units. If you're looking for something more than that, check the Guard as they have combat arms.


It sounds like the recruiters spiel about us utilizing our police street experience to interact with the public and weed out the good from the bad sounds like bullshit. I've got an appointment with my recruiter on Friday. Maybe get some more info about this before signing on the dotted line.

Thanks so much for the help!


What ReconB4 has posted is only partially true. HUMINT, or human intelligence, includes ALL intelligence gleaned from human sources, this includes reconnaissance and surveillance units like he's mentioned, but also every Joe who goes out on patrol and sees anything, or even the chow hall server who notices something strange and reports it.

In the context of an Army 35M and the HUMINT collection field, these soldiers develop and run human sources, what the LE field typically calls CIs, or confidential informants. HUMINT collectors WILL go outside the wire in order to develop sources and do source meets. Typically they will tag along with other units who are going on "routine" patrols, but won't be galavanting around on their own outside the wire and won't be conducting R&S missions like some of the units ReconB4 mentioned. Expect to all spend a fair bit of time vetting LN workers, conducting debriefings, analysing information, as well as other administrative minutia as well. The situation in your AO, threat assesment, and chain of command will all affect how HUMINT teams are used and how much "action" you'll see.

The recruiter isn't feeding you a line of BS though. LEOs, particularly detectives and others with plain clothes experience, are often VERY well suited for the HUMINT and Counter Intelligence fields. You do need to find the unit he's trying to join you to first though, talk to them, and make sure they have a need for that MOS and if you deploy that you will be performing those duties. This would be espcially true in regards to being an officer where if you join through a unit I'd expect you to have more choice in your branch. But, like I posted above, as an officer in MI, you may be sorely disapointed if you're expecting yto be out getting your hands dirty doing source meets and other "cool" stuff. Instead, most of your time will be spent on adminstrative fucntions, liasoning, or in a TOC as a watch officer.
ReconB4  [Member]
6/23/2010 7:14:25 PM EST
What Tarrif is saying is most definantly good advice and intel. I'm sorry to have misled you if you feel I did. I will say from my experience however, as a Recon Team Leader in light inf scout platoons that the MI guys I've seen working with CI's did go out to the vills to speak with them, but not often. Usually I saw these guys come onto base to talk to MI. This was during my first deployment to Iraq in 03-04. These days they seem to do less outside the wire stuff then earlier. Just a sign of the times here maybe. The best advice I've heard is to find out what unit they are planning on putting you in and go there to speak with them. That would be your best bet.

EDIT I probably confused the crap out of you. What I meant was, "what Seric is saying..."
DirtyDon  [Team Member]
6/23/2010 7:24:08 PM EST
I'm a former 97E Interrogator (89 - 97), and I believe that the Human Intelligence Collector MOS is the "new" Interrogator. Feel free to PM me and I'll help you any way I can.
supremeweasel67  [Team Member]
6/24/2010 1:40:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Originally Posted By Tarrif:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
You will be working in an MI unit and you won't be going "outside the wire" on patrols. On rare occassion you may go with another unit for some reason, but primarily not. It is a desk job. HUMINT collection is done by BN recon teams, LRSU and SF. All that intel is processed by the MI guys and redistribuited. Hopefully you can see where this is leading, a desk for most part.

Also you'll find that there are no combat arms jobs in the reserves, they are made up of support and combat support units. If you're looking for something more than that, check the Guard as they have combat arms.


It sounds like the recruiters spiel about us utilizing our police street experience to interact with the public and weed out the good from the bad sounds like bullshit. I've got an appointment with my recruiter on Friday. Maybe get some more info about this before signing on the dotted line.

Thanks so much for the help!


What ReconB4 has posted is only partially true. HUMINT, or human intelligence, includes ALL intelligence gleaned from human sources, this includes reconnaissance and surveillance units like he's mentioned, but also every Joe who goes out on patrol and sees anything, or even the chow hall server who notices something strange and reports it.

In the context of an Army 35M and the HUMINT collection field, these soldiers develop and run human sources, what the LE field typically calls CIs, or confidential informants. HUMINT collectors WILL go outside the wire in order to develop sources and do source meets. Typically they will tag along with other units who are going on "routine" patrols, but won't be galavanting around on their own outside the wire and won't be conducting R&S missions like some of the units ReconB4 mentioned. Expect to all spend a fair bit of time vetting LN workers, conducting debriefings, analysing information, as well as other administrative minutia as well. The situation in your AO, threat assesment, and chain of command will all affect how HUMINT teams are used and how much "action" you'll see.

The recruiter isn't feeding you a line of BS though. LEOs, particularly detectives and others with plain clothes experience, are often VERY well suited for the HUMINT and Counter Intelligence fields. You do need to find the unit he's trying to join you to first though, talk to them, and make sure they have a need for that MOS and if you deploy that you will be performing those duties. This would be espcially true in regards to being an officer where if you join through a unit I'd expect you to have more choice in your branch. But, like I posted above, as an officer in MI, you may be sorely disapointed if you're expecting yto be out getting your hands dirty doing source meets and other "cool" stuff. Instead, most of your time will be spent on adminstrative fucntions, liasoning, or in a TOC as a watch officer.

As a former 96B, this description is pretty accurate.

As a former 79R, since you have a Masters Degree, DO NOT ENLIST AS ENLISTED.
Go see a WO recruiter at the very least.
The MI field also has a little known program (like some others) where they give (Direct Commission) based on previous experience/schools/education etc... (Or atleast they did a couple of years ago. I have been out a little bit).

The reason the recruiter is telling you to join as enlisted, and go OCS after in, is because he gets credit for you joining.
He has a mission, and you are called a "High Grad" (Best there is).
He does not have your best interest in mind if you have a Master's and telling you to join as enlisted.
He should be passing you off to a "Officer Recruiter, or WO Recruiter".

Recruiters are under pressure to "Make mission" ( I have been there and done that), but always did what was best for the applicant. Yeah, I missed mission a couple of times, but I never had anyone come back to me and say I lied to them.
Because I did what was best for the applicant, I ended up with a lot of referrals for enlistment which ultimately made me a successful Recruiter during my 4 years of punishment in recruiting.

You can IM if need any thing. Like I said, I have been out for awhile, but still might be able to help.
SSeric02  [Team Member]
6/24/2010 6:56:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:

As a former 96B, this description is pretty accurate.

As a former 79R, since you have a Masters Degree, DO NOT ENLIST AS ENLISTED.
Go see a WO recruiter at the very least.
The MI field also has a little known program (like some others) where they give (Direct Commission) based on previous experience/schools/education etc... (Or atleast they did a couple of years ago. I have been out a little bit).

The reason the recruiter is telling you to join as enlisted, and go OCS after in, is because he gets credit for you joining.
He has a mission, and you are called a "High Grad" (Best there is).
He does not have your best interest in mind if you have a Master's and telling you to join as enlisted.
He should be passing you off to a "Officer Recruiter, or WO Recruiter".

Recruiters are under pressure to "Make mission" ( I have been there and done that), but always did what was best for the applicant. Yeah, I missed mission a couple of times, but I never had anyone come back to me and say I lied to them.
Because I did what was best for the applicant, I ended up with a lot of referrals for enlistment which ultimately made me a successful Recruiter during my 4 years of punishment in recruiting.

You can IM if need any thing. Like I said, I have been out for awhile, but still might be able to help.


VERY true that the recruiter man is trying to make mission and the OP is a piece of prime beef in his eyes. But, I would make the argument that the recruit is steering him in the right direction to serve enlisted first and then consider applying for WO or OCS. Not knowing the OP's age, rank/status in the NYPD, and other personal info makes it more difficult to asses over the internet, but given the OP's self-stated desire to not work a desk and that he's a "hands-on kinda guy" I would posit he will be miserable in MI as an officer, stuck as a S-2 Alpha in some BN or regiment or as a staff minion at a higher command or MI unit. On the other hand, I'm sure a smart, experienced guy would make SGT and SSGT quickly, and have a blast as a TL, and if he likes it apply for warrant or OCS if he decides he wants to make it a second, parallel career.

Looking at the Army's Warrant recruiting info, I'm not sure the MI branch offers a direct from the street warrant program, but there is a POC at the bottom of this page you can contact and find out. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/WO351M.html
supremeweasel67  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 12:01:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:

As a former 96B, this description is pretty accurate.

As a former 79R, since you have a Masters Degree, DO NOT ENLIST AS ENLISTED.
Go see a WO recruiter at the very least.
The MI field also has a little known program (like some others) where they give (Direct Commission) based on previous experience/schools/education etc... (Or atleast they did a couple of years ago. I have been out a little bit).

The reason the recruiter is telling you to join as enlisted, and go OCS after in, is because he gets credit for you joining.
He has a mission, and you are called a "High Grad" (Best there is).
He does not have your best interest in mind if you have a Master's and telling you to join as enlisted.
He should be passing you off to a "Officer Recruiter, or WO Recruiter".

Recruiters are under pressure to "Make mission" ( I have been there and done that), but always did what was best for the applicant. Yeah, I missed mission a couple of times, but I never had anyone come back to me and say I lied to them.
Because I did what was best for the applicant, I ended up with a lot of referrals for enlistment which ultimately made me a successful Recruiter during my 4 years of punishment in recruiting.

You can IM if need any thing. Like I said, I have been out for awhile, but still might be able to help.


VERY true that the recruiter man is trying to make mission and the OP is a piece of prime beef in his eyes. But, I would make the argument that the recruit is steering him in the right direction to serve enlisted first and then consider applying for WO or OCS. Not knowing the OP's age, rank/status in the NYPD, and other personal info makes it more difficult to asses over the internet, but given the OP's self-stated desire to not work a desk and that he's a "hands-on kinda guy" I would posit he will be miserable in MI as an officer, stuck as a S-2 Alpha in some BN or regiment or as a staff minion at a higher command or MI unit. On the other hand, I'm sure a smart, experienced guy would make SGT and SSGT quickly, and have a blast as a TL, and if he likes it apply for warrant or OCS if he decides he wants to make it a second, parallel career.

Looking at the Army's Warrant recruiting info, I'm not sure the MI branch offers a direct from the street warrant program, but there is a POC at the bottom of this page you can contact and find out. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/WO351M.html


Why start as an E-4 when you can start as an O-2?

I absolutely hated the MI field. I was made to reclass into it.
If he goes enlisted he is going to spend alot of time stuck in an ACE, TAC,TOC,ACT and so on.

I did get to do some "cool" things as an NCO, but could of done some "cooler" things if was Officer.

I am assuming you are aware how the Mi field works out.
Not a lot of REAL TM. SL, PSG time. Oh there are titles, but not real "positions".

I was/am of the belief that the best officers were prior enlisted, but there is also a "fine line" between what is right.
Meaning having someone with his "street" experience, and education, as a E-4, instead of an O-2,O-1, or O-3 ( have seen it happen) is not only wrong to the applicant, but also to the Army.

He will be to smart/savy as an E-4, get frustrated because no one listens to him because of his "junior rank", where if he came in as an Officer, they would still know he was new, but might have a good idea of something.

Seen it way to many times. I used to push a lot of my junior NCO's to drop there OCS Packets, because it was the right thing to do for them and the Army. Some are meant to be Officers, some are meant to be NCO's, and some are meant to be career Specialists or Privates. Right Person in the Right place and the Right time, can make a difference.

As for the recruiter, all he is trying to do is "make them bones" and not "be on a donut".
The OP is nothing more than a number to the recruiter.

Do not get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being enlisted, but in this case, with the information provided.
I assess the best COA is to join as an Officer.
Yeah there will be "inside time", no way around it, unless he wants to be Combat Arms, and even then, he is still going to pull desk duty.
SSeric02  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 6:17:01 AM EST
Just because one can be an officer, doesn't always mean one should. Some people look at it only from the point of view of pay, priviliges, and prestige. But, potential candidates really need to consider that in many cases, as an officer, you're job isn't so much to do the work, but to supervise, manage, administrate, plan, run cover for, and be responsible for your subordinates who are doing the job. These are not bad things, just different, and come into play at all levels of leadership to some extent. But, someone who wants to be "hands on" may well be disapointed. For a LEO, comapre it to being a patrol officer or detective to being a Lieutenant or Captain. Yeah, they're still cops, but they're main job isn't so much doing regular cop things.

There is also a distinct difference in what he'll be doing as a 35M compared to what you experienced as a 96B (now 35F from a quick look at goarmy.com). Yes, there will be some overlap, and yes, he'll spend some time in the TOC, but he won't be spending all day doing arts and crafts (remember doing MCOOs! LOL) or Power Pointing himself to death.

I write this from the point of view of a "hand-on" guy with over 10 years as an intelligence officer and other-service graduate of the Army's MIOBC.

Tested  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 6:24:31 AM EST
Reserve and Guard is way different than AD when it comes to OCS. They have far fewer people join that are qualified so will do a lot to get you in. The Reserve doesn't have as many "outside the wire" jobs as the Guard does but now days both are not seeing a ton of action. Guard gets both Fed and State money so usually have better shit but the Guard can only promote within the State which sucks balls in popular MOSs'.

Best thing to do would be to find some guys that are in the unit you would be going to and go and drill with them for the weekend. See what they say and what they think. Ask what schools the unit will send you to, if they will let you go on deployment with other units, what the leadership is like. Basically are the people in the unit you are getting sent to happy there?

Good luck man. the .mil would be better if you joined. Just remember to keep your cop stuff separate from you .mil stuff. Some of them seam to have a real hard time doing that.
Tested  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 6:27:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:

As a former 96B, this description is pretty accurate.

As a former 79R, since you have a Masters Degree, DO NOT ENLIST AS ENLISTED.
Go see a WO recruiter at the very least.
The MI field also has a little known program (like some others) where they give (Direct Commission) based on previous experience/schools/education etc... (Or atleast they did a couple of years ago. I have been out a little bit).

The reason the recruiter is telling you to join as enlisted, and go OCS after in, is because he gets credit for you joining.
He has a mission, and you are called a "High Grad" (Best there is).
He does not have your best interest in mind if you have a Master's and telling you to join as enlisted.
He should be passing you off to a "Officer Recruiter, or WO Recruiter".

Recruiters are under pressure to "Make mission" ( I have been there and done that), but always did what was best for the applicant. Yeah, I missed mission a couple of times, but I never had anyone come back to me and say I lied to them.
Because I did what was best for the applicant, I ended up with a lot of referrals for enlistment which ultimately made me a successful Recruiter during my 4 years of punishment in recruiting.

You can IM if need any thing. Like I said, I have been out for awhile, but still might be able to help.


VERY true that the recruiter man is trying to make mission and the OP is a piece of prime beef in his eyes. But, I would make the argument that the recruit is steering him in the right direction to serve enlisted first and then consider applying for WO or OCS. Not knowing the OP's age, rank/status in the NYPD, and other personal info makes it more difficult to asses over the internet, but given the OP's self-stated desire to not work a desk and that he's a "hands-on kinda guy" I would posit he will be miserable in MI as an officer, stuck as a S-2 Alpha in some BN or regiment or as a staff minion at a higher command or MI unit. On the other hand, I'm sure a smart, experienced guy would make SGT and SSGT quickly, and have a blast as a TL, and if he likes it apply for warrant or OCS if he decides he wants to make it a second, parallel career.

Looking at the Army's Warrant recruiting info, I'm not sure the MI branch offers a direct from the street warrant program, but there is a POC at the bottom of this page you can contact and find out. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/WO351M.html


+1 on this. Officers don't get as much hands on as enlisted. That's why they are called "Officers" Some try and use the rank to get field time but almost always get resented for it because their job of taking care of the troops on the paper side gets neglected and the NCOs' resent them for interfering and not maintaining the officer lane.
BushmanX  [Member]
6/25/2010 6:40:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:


As a former 96B, this description is pretty accurate.

As a former 79R, since you have a Masters Degree, DO NOT ENLIST AS ENLISTED.
Go see a WO recruiter at the very least.
The MI field also has a little known program (like some others) where they give (Direct Commission) based on previous experience/schools/education etc... (Or atleast they did a couple of years ago. I have been out a little bit).

The reason the recruiter is telling you to join as enlisted, and go OCS after in, is because he gets credit for you joining.
He has a mission, and you are called a "High Grad" (Best there is).
He does not have your best interest in mind if you have a Master's and telling you to join as enlisted
.
He should be passing you off to a "Officer Recruiter, or WO Recruiter".

Recruiters are under pressure to "Make mission" ( I have been there and done that), but always did what was best for the applicant. Yeah, I missed mission a couple of times, but I never had anyone come back to me and say I lied to them.
Because I did what was best for the applicant, I ended up with a lot of referrals for enlistment which ultimately made me a successful Recruiter during my 4 years of punishment in recruiting.

You can IM if need any thing. Like I said, I have been out for awhile, but still might be able to help.


Actually, as a current 79R with USAREC, I am reading alot of bad info on here. All the Recruiters in USAREC can put in contract someone into OCS as long as they qualify. We encourage it, and the enlisted Recruiters get the most "credit" for OCS contracts. Sure there are Special Missions Recruiters out there as well. There may be a little more leg work involved in getting that OCS packet put together and the OCS applicant ready for the oral board, but 9 times out of 10, the Recruiter won't mind. Now for the Reserve, we are hurting for Officers right now. Active duty not so much, and keep in mind, that the OCS program is VERY competitive right now for slots due to the huge number of applicants we have joining. If there are any questions on your options, speak to the Station Commander of the Recruiting Center your visiting. PM me if I can be of assistance.

SFC LO
supremeweasel67  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 7:09:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By BushmanX:
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:


As a former 96B, this description is pretty accurate.

As a former 79R, since you have a Masters Degree, DO NOT ENLIST AS ENLISTED.
Go see a WO recruiter at the very least.
The MI field also has a little known program (like some others) where they give (Direct Commission) based on previous experience/schools/education etc... (Or atleast they did a couple of years ago. I have been out a little bit).

The reason the recruiter is telling you to join as enlisted, and go OCS after in, is because he gets credit for you joining.
He has a mission, and you are called a "High Grad" (Best there is).
He does not have your best interest in mind if you have a Master's and telling you to join as enlisted
.
He should be passing you off to a "Officer Recruiter, or WO Recruiter".

Recruiters are under pressure to "Make mission" ( I have been there and done that), but always did what was best for the applicant. Yeah, I missed mission a couple of times, but I never had anyone come back to me and say I lied to them.
Because I did what was best for the applicant, I ended up with a lot of referrals for enlistment which ultimately made me a successful Recruiter during my 4 years of punishment in recruiting.

You can IM if need any thing. Like I said, I have been out for awhile, but still might be able to help.


Actually, as a current 79R with USAREC, I am reading alot of bad info on here. All the Recruiters in USAREC can put in contract someone into OCS as long as they qualify. We encourage it, and the enlisted Recruiters get the most "credit" for OCS contracts. Sure there are Special Missions Recruiters out there as well. There may be a little more leg work involved in getting that OCS packet put together and the OCS applicant ready for the oral board, but 9 times out of 10, the Recruiter won't mind. Now for the Reserve, we are hurting for Officers right now. Active duty not so much, and keep in mind, that the OCS program is VERY competitive right now for slots due to the huge number of applicants we have joining. If there are any questions on your options, speak to the Station Commander of the Recruiting Center your visiting. PM me if I can be of assistance.

SFC LO


Thanks,
Like I said. I have been out a little while now.

Back when I did it, we were almost mandated to "Pass" on to an "O" or "WO" Recruiter.

Now with that being said, OCS packets are lengthy, and could it possibly be that the recruiter is pushing him to go enlisted, because less paperwork, and is able to "make mission" quicker, as in right now vs. 6 months down the road.


supremeweasel67  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 7:12:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Just because one can be an officer, doesn't always mean one should. Some people look at it only from the point of view of pay, priviliges, and prestige. But, potential candidates really need to consider that in many cases, as an officer, you're job isn't so much to do the work, but to supervise, manage, administrate, plan, run cover for, and be responsible for your subordinates who are doing the job. These are not bad things, just different, and come into play at all levels of leadership to some extent. But, someone who wants to be "hands on" may well be disapointed. For a LEO, comapre it to being a patrol officer or detective to being a Lieutenant or Captain. Yeah, they're still cops, but they're main job isn't so much doing regular cop things.

There is also a distinct difference in what he'll be doing as a 35M compared to what you experienced as a 96B (now 35F from a quick look at goarmy.com). Yes, there will be some overlap, and yes, he'll spend some time in the TOC, but he won't be spending all day doing arts and crafts (remember doing MCOOs! LOL) or Power Pointing himself to death.

I write this from the point of view of a "hand-on" guy with over 10 years as an intelligence officer and other-service graduate of the Army's MIOBC.



Please don't think I was comparing what I did to what he would be doing.
I was speaking as some one who saw first hand what they did, their products, etc.....

Still think best COA is for him to join as an O.
SSeric02  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 7:33:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:


Please don't think I was comparing what I did to what he would be doing.
I was speaking as some one who saw first hand what they did, their products, etc.....

Still think best COA is for him to join as an O.


The grass is always greener, right!
Sgt_Gold  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 7:40:26 AM EST
Just an FYI, but there are tons of troops doing nothing but force protection and convoy escort. In the past these jobs were done by the military police, but there aren't enough MPs to go around so units find themselves mobilized for force protection regardless of what they are actually MOSQ'd for.
supremeweasel67  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 7:40:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:


Please don't think I was comparing what I did to what he would be doing.
I was speaking as some one who saw first hand what they did, their products, etc.....

Still think best COA is for him to join as an O.


The grass is always greener, right!

We know about the emails (AKO) that come out atleast once a year.
"Your records are currently being "reviewed" for an "upcoming opening".
If you are interested, please respond to this email for an appointment for an interview.

You know "square peg in the round hole". It will work, just have to use a BFH.
BushmanX  [Member]
6/26/2010 6:00:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:



Thanks,
Like I said. I have been out a little while now.

Back when I did it, we were almost mandated to "Pass" on to an "O" or "WO" Recruiter.

Now with that being said, OCS packets are lengthy, and could it possibly be that the recruiter is pushing him to go enlisted, because less paperwork, and is able to "make mission" quicker, as in right now vs. 6 months down the road.




It is possible that the Recruiter is trying to drop a quick contract instead of doing the work for the OCS contract. If this is the case, he needs to find a new Recruiter. Right now, OCS packets go all the way to USAREC for approval. Before it was a Recruiting battalion board, but again, with all the applicants we are getting, the Army is getting a little more "selective", and has changed the process somewhat. In the Army Reserve, you have three options: OCS Packet, Enlist to Direct Commission, or SMP (if attending College w/ROTC). Each option has a positive and negative aspect. Again, this is where the Recruiter needs to break it down for the applicant. A good Recruiter will go down every avenue of options as long as the applicant qualifies for those options. Don't ask to be an Officer if you can barely pass the ASVAB, have a criminal history, bad credit, or your close on height/weight standards. And just because someone has a 4 year degree does not make them smart. I have had many college graduates come into my office and fail the practice ASVAB test we administer in our office prior to sending them to take the real ASVAB. Also, I have seen the opposite side of the spectrum where a GED holder nearly maxed the ASVAB, back when we could put in GED's. Go figure....

SFC Lo
supremeweasel67  [Team Member]
6/26/2010 10:23:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By BushmanX:
Originally Posted By supremeweasel67:



Thanks,
Like I said. I have been out a little while now.

Back when I did it, we were almost mandated to "Pass" on to an "O" or "WO" Recruiter.

Now with that being said, OCS packets are lengthy, and could it possibly be that the recruiter is pushing him to go enlisted, because less paperwork, and is able to "make mission" quicker, as in right now vs. 6 months down the road.




It is possible that the Recruiter is trying to drop a quick contract instead of doing the work for the OCS contract. If this is the case, he needs to find a new Recruiter. Right now, OCS packets go all the way to USAREC for approval. Before it was a Recruiting battalion board, but again, with all the applicants we are getting, the Army is getting a little more "selective", and has changed the process somewhat. In the Army Reserve, you have three options: OCS Packet, Enlist to Direct Commission, or SMP (if attending College w/ROTC). Each option has a positive and negative aspect. Again, this is where the Recruiter needs to break it down for the applicant. A good Recruiter will go down every avenue of options as long as the applicant qualifies for those options. Don't ask to be an Officer if you can barely pass the ASVAB, have a criminal history, bad credit, or your close on height/weight standards. And just because someone has a 4 year degree does not make them smart. I have had many college graduates come into my office and fail the practice ASVAB test we administer in our office prior to sending them to take the real ASVAB. Also, I have seen the opposite side of the spectrum where a GED holder nearly maxed the ASVAB, back when we could put in GED's. Go figure....

SFC Lo

I hear you.

I pulled my duty in MS (You get the Picture, I covered 7 counties and all were rural, with some High schools having 17 seniors) I had to turn my car in about every year and a half due to mileage.

Anyway, my station was in a larger city, right next to the projects (for awhile we had to take our "G Jets" home so they didn't get stolen/stripped).

We had a HS Grad that could not read, I mean he couldn't read your business card.
We called him "The new recruiter finder".
If you were out doing your mandatory "Face to Face on the Street time" and the new recruiter didn't have this kid's name down for a appt./practice test. We knew the recruiter was screwing off.



We also had a College where someone could get a scholarship with a 16 ACT. I KID YOU NOT.
Of course everyone would say they were going to college.
Some would Graduate, then come in saying want to join as officer. Give Practice test, and score 28, 29, or 30. Background history, AGG ASSLT. Coke possession. etc... They say but I was a juvenile.
No need to say more, you are there and know.

OP,
Sorry for the slight HIJACK.
Good luck, and best thing I can say, is take everything everyone is saying, and determine which is best for YOU.
kudzu630  [Team Member]
6/28/2010 6:42:03 AM EST
If the OP is still around, I'm sending you a DM.

<Army CI and yes... I play HUMINT too
kudzu630  [Team Member]
6/28/2010 6:52:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
You will be working in an MI unit and you won't be going "outside the wire" on patrols. On rare occassion you may go with another unit for some reason, but primarily not. It is a desk job. HUMINT collection is done by BN recon teams, LRSU and SF. All that intel is processed by the MI guys and redistribuited. Hopefully you can see where this is leading, a desk for most part.

Also you'll find that there are no combat arms jobs in the reserves, they are made up of support and combat support units. If you're looking for something more than that, check the Guard as they have combat arms.


This... is a load of shit.

Sorry, but you're 100% inaccurate in just about every fashion. Having lead Army THTs (now called HCTs) and managed them on two seperate deployments in two countries... I'll toss my two cents in.

If your HCT isn't outside the wire, then it isn't doing its job. Furthermore, there may be reasons they are not, many commanders don't want them out there because they're small and the mission requires more than just a few minutes to stroll through a marketplace. HUMINT collection, real collection, is not done by BN recon teams or LRS... you're using a local national interpreter... I'll leave it at that. SF is another monkey. And your "intel processed by intel guys" is your patrol debrief. You're talking about a piece of the HUMINT pie in which manuever elements play a crucial part because the HCT can't get everywhere. If you don't know what an HCT is then you've never been around one. If you're referring to your Bn S2 then your post is accurate but you'd be hardpressed to find many 35Ms or 35Ls sitting in a battalion S2 or company intel fusion cell and you're mostly talking about intelligence analysts (35F).

Lets move one to reality. I spent over 300+ days in Iraq on missions outside the wire and drove over 10,000 miles in a beat up Humvee. We had more ammo than most infantry squads among our four man (+1 CAT II interpreter) because we wanted to be ready to do what needed to be done. We pitched missions to our supporting combat elements so we could get enough trucks to roll on our missions. Other times my team would jump in someone else's trucks or Bradley's to go do wherever they were going to find new people to talk to. When they did raids, we went with them, especially if our contacts were the reason for the raid/mission.

ReconB4, I understand you may have had a limited interaction with MI personnel, but know who it is you're actually talking about. During the initial push into Iraq there were THTs (they were still called that then) who were alongside other elements involved in fighting, sifting through refugees/EPWs, and identifying threats and gaps in the enemy's situation.

So again the mission takes place outside the wire and away from a desk. However, there are aspects to the 35M duties that dont require you to do these sorts of missions and if that's the case then so be it OP. 35Ms are the Army's main proponent for interrogations and those don't happen OTW. But its not a desk job either.

Vrandir  [Member]
7/26/2010 7:17:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By kudzu630:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
You will be working in an MI unit and you won't be going "outside the wire" on patrols. On rare occassion you may go with another unit for some reason, but primarily not. It is a desk job. HUMINT collection is done by BN recon teams, LRSU and SF. All that intel is processed by the MI guys and redistribuited. Hopefully you can see where this is leading, a desk for most part.

Also you'll find that there are no combat arms jobs in the reserves, they are made up of support and combat support units. If you're looking for something more than that, check the Guard as they have combat arms.


This... is a load of shit.

Sorry, but you're 100% inaccurate in just about every fashion. Having lead Army THTs (now called HCTs) and managed them on two seperate deployments in two countries... I'll toss my two cents in.

If your HCT isn't outside the wire, then it isn't doing its job. Furthermore, there may be reasons they are not, many commanders don't want them out there because they're small and the mission requires more than just a few minutes to stroll through a marketplace. HUMINT collection, real collection, is not done by BN recon teams or LRS... you're using a local national interpreter... I'll leave it at that. SF is another monkey. And your "intel processed by intel guys" is your patrol debrief. You're talking about a piece of the HUMINT pie in which manuever elements play a crucial part because the HCT can't get everywhere. If you don't know what an HCT is then you've never been around one. If you're referring to your Bn S2 then your post is accurate but you'd be hardpressed to find many 35Ms or 35Ls sitting in a battalion S2 or company intel fusion cell and you're mostly talking about intelligence analysts (35F).

Lets move one to reality. I spent over 300+ days in Iraq on missions outside the wire and drove over 10,000 miles in a beat up Humvee. We had more ammo than most infantry squads among our four man (+1 CAT II interpreter) because we wanted to be ready to do what needed to be done. We pitched missions to our supporting combat elements so we could get enough trucks to roll on our missions. Other times my team would jump in someone else's trucks or Bradley's to go do wherever they were going to find new people to talk to. When they did raids, we went with them, especially if our contacts were the reason for the raid/mission.

ReconB4, I understand you may have had a limited interaction with MI personnel, but know who it is you're actually talking about. During the initial push into Iraq there were THTs (they were still called that then) who were alongside other elements involved in fighting, sifting through refugees/EPWs, and identifying threats and gaps in the enemy's situation.

So again the mission takes place outside the wire and away from a desk. However, there are aspects to the 35M duties that dont require you to do these sorts of missions and if that's the case then so be it OP. 35Ms are the Army's main proponent for interrogations and those don't happen OTW. But its not a desk job either.



kudzu630 is right on the money. I spent 21 years as a 96C/97E Interrogator and 35M HUMINT Collector. While I did do Document Exploitation and did interrogations at the Battalion level, the vast majority of my time was spent supporting the manuever units, conducting screenings, interrogations, interpreting etc. I got loaned out to infantry, armor, mech infantry and special operations. I even got OPCONd to the Marines for a year (Loved the Marines, by the way). My Nephew, who has deployed twice now to Iraq, spent all of his time on HCTs. The days of MI weenies hanging out in a CEWI battalion, died just before the end of the Cold War, when we became more actively engaged in Latin America, and it has been so ever since.
Sgt_Gold  [Team Member]
7/27/2010 3:59:41 AM EST
CEWI. Oh man, that's a term I haven't heard in a loooooong time.

Originally Posted By Vrandir:
The days of MI weenies hanging out in a CEWI battalion, died just before the end of the Cold War, when we became more actively engaged in Latin America, and it has been so ever since.


Vrandir  [Member]
7/28/2010 4:58:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sgt_Gold:
CEWI. Oh man, that's a term I haven't heard in a loooooong time.

Originally Posted By Vrandir:
The days of MI weenies hanging out in a CEWI battalion, died just before the end of the Cold War, when we became more actively engaged in Latin America, and it has been so ever since.




No kidding. I was throwing out a bunch of old stuff and while I kept the FMs like 5-15 Field Fortifications, and FM 21-76 US Army Survival Manual; I got rid of a lot of other things like FM 34-80 Brigade and Battalion Intelligence and Electronic Warfare Operations. Funny how much junk you can gather up over the years. I did keep my FM 34-52, FM 2-22.3 and all those M-16/M-4 magazines I managed to accumulate over the years.
vintovka  [Team Member]
7/31/2010 4:41:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By pevrs114:
Find the unit he's looking to put you in, go there, and talk to THEM. Get the real deal scoop on what it is they do.


Spot on, then go talk to your nearest Special Forces National Guard unit (there are units in R.I., NJ and Western Mass) and see if that's a better place for you.

There are a lot of HUMINT qualified guys in MI units that will spend their entire time in Iraq or Afghanistan inside the wire. As far as the officer route goes the truth is most MI officers spend their careers inside the wire making powerpoint slides and most conventional commanders are reluctant to use MI attachments on collection operations and only do so when they have to. Integrating MI personnel into conventional combat units has been one of the bigger cultural challenges of the war for the Army..

Check out your local SF unit, if you and your partner think that you can make it through SF they have a HUMINT program and NG or active duty an SF intel collector will be doing hands on outside the wire collections to feed the intel cycle, that they will later act on. If you think the SF route is to long, then checkout the counter intelliegence detachment that is organic to an SF unit. They also go outside the wire as their commanders are far more comfortable with collection operations.

just my 2 cents
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