Patrol Plate Carriers and Plates?
I have been tasked with finding various options for carriers and plates for my shift of 9 Officers. So, i have some general ideas of where to start, but thats more from the "gear whore" side of me. i just want to know what you guys are using. id prefer to get plates and carriers from same place, and I'm sure there more LE focused mfg then I'm thinking of. Thanks for your time....
what I'm hoping to get is Level IV stand alone plate setup or Level IV ICW with a carrier with soft armor built in (i.e. DBT AW-FAPC) or soft armor backers. in total id like the setup to be level IV...
I wear the PIG with Protech hard plates and SKD soft armor. Ran it for almost 50 hours at DARC "active shooter" course and it was comfortable as hell. One of the best out there. Buy right, buy once....your guys will love them.
I run a CONDOR compact plate carrier with MaxxPro level IV ceramic plates. Got them both from UScav.com On the plate carrier I run 4 AR mags, 2 pistol mags, flashlight med kit and a misc. pouch with knives, paracord, and flexcuffs.
Another PIG here. BAE Eclipse level IV plates.
is the .mil surplusing interceptor vests yet, that would be a lot of bang for the buck... or lack there of buck
Originally Posted By tossinsparks:
I run a CONDOR compact plate carrier with MaxxPro level IV ceramic plates. Got them both from UScav.com On the plate carrier I run 4 AR mags, 2 pistol mags, flashlight med kit and a misc. pouch with knives, paracord, and flexcuffs.
Please don't adocate Condor plate carriers for duty use. That's like using Cheaper Than Dirt to outfit guys who's life and the lives of those they are sworn to protect depends on that gear. Some of us actually use plate carriers for real, train with them, wear them, and would not like to have the lower quality controls and thread and stiching of Condor. Please. I have had to fight that battle often enough with people that do not understand what it means to have gear fail, just that it looks the same and is cheaper.
OP, I did a lot of research into that very issue 2 1/2 years ago. At the time I chose the Paraclete SOHPC with AMI TAC3S plates. I would likely choose the PIG PC now, but depending on budget would also be open to some others. Just remember that you get what you pay for, and you depend on it. Figure out what your budget is and go from there, including the option to present a request for a budget increase and why to make sure that you get what you need.
Do good research into the plates, and don't handicap yourself to having to get plates and carriers from the same place. You limit your options that way. Make sure you uunderstand te difference between Type III and Type IV, and if you really really actually need Type IV. Make sure that the plates will stop M193 AND M855 5.56 ammunition. Not all of them will.
Originally Posted By 1911greg:
is the .mil surplusing interceptor vests yet, that would be a lot of bang for the buck... or lack there of buck
MIL is not surplusing armor to non-DOD.
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By tossinsparks:
I run a CONDOR compact plate carrier with MaxxPro level IV ceramic plates. Got them both from UScav.com On the plate carrier I run 4 AR mags, 2 pistol mags, flashlight med kit and a misc. pouch with knives, paracord, and flexcuffs.
Please don't adocate Condor plate carriers for duty use. That's like using Cheaper Than Dirt to outfit guys who's life and the lives of those they are sworn to protect depends on that gear. Some of us actually use plate carriers for real, train with them, wear them, and would not like to have the lower quality controls and thread and stiching of Condor. Please. I have had to fight that battle often enough with people that do not understand what it means to have gear fail, just that it looks the same and is cheaper.
OP, I did a lot of research into that very issue 2 1/2 years ago. At the time I chose the Paraclete SOHPC with AMI TAC3S plates. I would likely choose the PIG PC now, but depending on budget would also be open to some others. Just remember that you get what you pay for, and you depend on it. Figure out what your budget is and go from there, including the option to present a request for a budget increase and why to make sure that you get what you need.
Do good research into the plates, and don't handicap yourself to having to get plates and carriers from the same place. You limit your options that way. Make sure you uunderstand te difference between Type III and Type IV, and if you really really actually need Type IV. Make sure that the plates will stop M193 AND M855 5.56 ammunition. Not all of them will.
I know people like to talk shit about Condor, I bought mine after checking out another guys in the department. I've deployed it several times and made several building entries wearing it, as well as wearing in to several training schools. I've been running it for about 3 or 4 years now and I haven't noticed a single stitch out of place or anything fraying. The flap on the bottom that holds the plates in is actually so thick and tough it was hard to open when I wanted to take the plates out to inspect them a few months ago. I really have no complaints about it, its certainly not a everyday vest its an emergency vest that I throw on for a hot situation.
I use level IV plates because I have my carrier setup to go on over my level III vest that I wear everyday, its an additional armor piece if I think I'll be running up against a long gun or will need any of the extra stuff (med kit/AR mags etc) on it.
You wear a level III vest everyday?
Pretty sure he meant IIIA.
My issue with Condor is a few things. Admittedly there have been some products they have done that have not ended up being too bad. Rifle cases and some clothing come to mind as being well received. However, I have seen buckles break, mag pouches improperly sized, velcro wear out much faster, etc... A lot of it is still made in China, and I honestly prefer to give my money to those that support the US and their efforts in keeping LE/Mil/Civilians safe instead of padding Chinese accounts any more than already gets done.
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Pretty sure he meant IIIA.
My issue with Condor is a few things. Admittedly there have been some products they have done that have not ended up being too bad. Rifle cases and some clothing come to mind as being well received. However, I have seen buckles break, mag pouches improperly sized, velcro wear out much faster, etc... A lot of it is still made in China, and I honestly prefer to give my money to those that support the US and their efforts in keeping LE/Mil/Civilians safe instead of padding Chinese accounts any more than already gets done.
Yeah that was a typo, I missed the A. I am getting a full sized outer vest and I'll buy american for that, but for my emergency in the trunk hard plate carrier I will keep the Condor one. My only complaint is that I bought a bunch of condor stuff together and the AR mag pouches are a little deeper than I would like.
Best plates are AMI TAC3S period.
You can get good plate carriers for $100+.
-Ray
Another vote for the PIG and the TAC3S plates. They weren't cheap, but I got them on my own dime because I wanted something I could depend on.
Just so you know, most level IV plates are ceremic or hybrid and typically don't have the multi hit capability that many of the higher quality level III plates have. I figured my odds of getting shot 10 times with M855 were much higher than getting hit once with M2AP so the multi hit capability of the level III, especially the TAC3S, made the most sense to me. IIRC there is a video of one those plates taking over 60 hits from 5.56 and 7.62 and then another video of one of them taking 3 hits from a .338 Lapua Mag. They are really nice plates but are a bit heavy and expensive.
The PIG carrier is comfortable and helps with the extra weight.
Originally Posted By tossinsparks:
I run a CONDOR compact plate carrier with MaxxPro level IV ceramic plates. Got them both from UScav.com On the plate carrier I run 4 AR mags, 2 pistol mags, flashlight med kit and a misc. pouch with knives, paracord, and flexcuffs.
Did same and it works well.
A few months ago I put together a group purchase of level III and IV armor and carriers that ended up involving 19 agencies and roughly $100,000 in armor. Originally we were trying to purchase TAP Gamma Plus plates due to the low cost, our perception of the threat for LE in our area, and the recommendations of Dr. Gary Roberts. However, there was an issue with the vendor, and about 75% of our order ended up being HighCom Security "Guardian 4SAS-7" Level IV plates, shooters cut. Our carrier of choice was the Tyr Tactical BPC. The intent for this gear is as a throw and go hard armor for gun calls for civilian LE.
Before we decided on the HighCom 4SAS-7, we did some in-house testing to evaluate their multi-hit capabilities. I learned a lot about hard armor, and how durable the stuff really is. The very concept of simple cracks making the armor no-go or the need for yearly X-Rays seems far, far excessive to me after shooting this stuff.
This is the first post I've made publicly about this testing, but I have the go-ahead from HighCom to share it. We shot the hell out of this stuff and it surpassed our expectations by a wide margin.
If you're interested in an inexpensive Level IV plate that was certified for NIJ-STD 0101.04, I highly recommend looking at HighCom. They will sell directly to law enforcement for individual and agency purchases. They are very inexpensive and in my opinion are one of the best values in new plates available today. They're not the lightest, or thinnest, but I think they're a really good across the board performer for the price. I won't post exactly what HighCom is selling them for, but I can tell you that it is about the same as you could find TAP Gamma plates for, plus a 5 year manufacturers warranty.
They are not an in-conjunction plate, but we expect them to be used as such anyway since everyone is required to wear soft armor while on duty. As such, we tested them with a Level II soft armor panel behind. This was not a scientific test by a long shot, but I think it gives a good understanding of the capabilities of this armor.
We had two of the large rectangular 4SAS-7 plates to test shoot.
Youtube video of our test of HighCom 4SAS-7
Plate #1 - 16 shots fired
At twenty-five yards:
1 - XM193 - Defeated
2 - XM193 - Defeated
3 - M855 - Defeated
4 - M855 - Defeated
5 - .308 A-Max - Defeated
6 - .308 A-Max - Defeated
7 - 55 gr Hornady SP - Defeated
8 - 75 gr Hornady TAP - Defeated
9 - Speer Gold Dot Bonded 55 gr - Defeated
At ten yards:
10 - XM193 - Defeated
11,12 - XM193 - Defeated
13 - XM193 - Penetrated (on top of 10,11,12). Passed through the hard armor, but was defeated by the soft armor backing.
14 - .308 A-Max - Defeated. Round was captured in the last layers of material of the hard armor.
At seven yards:
15 - .308 A-Max - Penetrated. This round struck a previously hit area of the hard plate. The round passed through the plate but was defeated by the soft armor.
At five yards:
16 - .308 A-Max - Passed through the plate in a previously hit spot and passed through the soft armor
Plate #2 - 27 shots fired.
Shot at twenty-five yards:
1 - .300 Win Magnum - Defeated
2 - 12 gauge, 1 oz. slug - Defeated
3 - .300 Win Magnum - Defeated
4, 5, 6, 7 - XM193 close together - Shot #4 was within one inch of shot #1 (.300 WM) and had overlapping craters. Shots 5,6,7 were within 1 inch of each other roughly two inches above that spot. Shots 4-6 were defeated by the armor. Shot #7 passed through the hard armor and the soft armor backing.
8, 9 - XM193 - Defeated
10 - M855 - Approximately ¼ inch away from the edge. Defeated. Significant spalling on the soft armor, but no soft armor penetration.
11 - .308 A-Max - Defeated. Excessive backface deformation but captured the round.
12 - .308 A-Max - Defeated
13 - .300 Win Mag - Penetrated the hard armor but was captured by the soft armor. This was within approximately 2.5 inches of Shot #11.
Peeled the layers apart for inspection.
14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 - 9mm - Defeated (approximately 7 yards)
20, 21, 22, 23 - .45 ACP - Defeated (approximately 7 yards)
24, 25 - M855 - Defeated
26, 27 - XM193 - Glancing strikes, neither captured by the armor.
Ammunition velocities:
5.56, Federal XM193 = ~3100 fps
5.56, LC M855 = ~ 2950 fps
.223, 75 gr Hornady TAP = ~2630 fps
.223, 55 gr Speer Gold Dot Bonded = ~3010 fps
.223, 55 gr Hornady Soft Point = ~2675 fps
.308, 168 gr Hornady A-Max = ~2600 fps
.300, 180 gr Winchester Magnum = ~ 2970 fps
Feel free to contact me if you want any more info. I don't read ar15.com often anymore, but do get back her occasionally.
-Anthony
Me and a buddy just tested the AMI Tac3S and esapi plate.
Shot both from 20 feet with:
1. 308 FEDERAL 165 GRAIN TROPHY BONDED TIP-2569/2578
2. 308 FEDERAL 168 GRAIN GOLD MEDAL SIERRA MATCHKING BTHP-2609/2604
3. 308 BLACK HILLS 155 GRAIN AMAX-2419/2419
4. 6.8 SPC SILVER STATE ARMORY 110 GRAIN PRO HUNTER-2704/2635
5. 6.8 SPC SILVER STATE ARMORY 85 GRAIN BARNES TSX-3174/3182
6. 5.56 FEDERAL XM193 55 GRAIN-3267
7. 223 REMINGTON EXPRESS 55 GRAIN PSP-2911
8. 223 FEDERAL 62 GRAIN M855 GREEN TIP-3152
9. 5.56 SILVER STATE ARMORY 70 GRAIN BARNES TSX-2989
The numbers are the velocities. Both plates stopped all 9 rounds but after 9 the esapi was a crumbled mess and you could push a finger through it. We hit the tac3S with 20 more rounds of the above 223/5.56 and it stopped all but had one penetration that was the same hole as a previous round. There were 3-4 other groups taht were touching but not same hole that were stopped. The tac3S could have taken alot more but we ran out of time. We'll have a video posted once it's ready
On that note I run the Tac3S in the PIG plate carrier
PIG carrier with MASS III PLUS plates. They give a healthy LEO discount.
