What specific Federal Law ALLOWS an unlicensed person to make a firearm?
I know this must have been asked and answered over and over but I cannot find it.
I have searched for it on AR-15 and CalGuns as many ways as you can word it.
I am putting together a training packet for our local law enforcement regarding the personal manufacture of an AR-15 so they don't freak out when they don't see a serial #.
I have searched many USC codes but I cannot find it. I have also googled the crap out of it but all I get is definitions, importers, making guns from imported parts, NFA firearms, etc.
Am I reinventing the wheel here?
I am in California and would then need to move on to finding the same thing for California law.
ANy help from those with personal experience.
Please do not send Google links. I have done the searches.
California law may give you some trouble. See comments
here. The term "zip-gun" seems to pop up often.
This should help for questions from the ATF-side of the question:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#commercial-parts-assembly
per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.
The GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines the term “firearm” to include the following:
… (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
I am not a lawyer.
It's legal because there is no Federal law preventing it.
So there's no law saying it's "okay", it just is. That's why you can't find it. There are ATF FAQ's dealing with some requirements, like you can't make something NFA without registering/paying the tax etc. and you must follow the rules on the import laws for foreign parts content/barrels etc.
The issue is that most Federal gun control laws derive their authority through the Interstate Commerce Clause of the Constitution. Making a gun for yourself isn't "commerce" or "Interstate" so they don't really have the ability to prevent it. That they can require you follow the rules on NFA has been successfully challenged in some circuit courts, but it's a big gray area, and still effectively illegal for folks without lots of time, money, and lawyers.
The rules on marking a serial number, name, and city are what they can enforce under the ICC since you "may" sell the gun you made at some point in the future. Even if it stays in-state, your gun could have substituted for a gun someone would have bought in interstate commerce instead. That's the flimsy court precedent based on agricultural goods that covers this. The foreign parts count is foreign trade, which the fed.gov clearly does have power over.
CA laws, I'm sure, have a bunch of BS attached to them.
The absence of one making it illegal.
Kinda like what Federal Law allows you to paint your house green.
Originally Posted By AJ_Dual:
It's legal because there is no Federal law preventing it.
So there's no law saying it's "okay", it just is. That's why you can't find it. ....CA laws, I'm sure, have a bunch of BS attached to them.
Gotcha....
But how about case law for those that have been through the ringer for possessing (without prohibition factors) a home-made firearm without a serial # and coming out on top. Case Law decision is your defense as long as the case is similar in circumstance.
Why would you try and sell a home built AR lower? I would rather strip the parts from the lower, remove the upper, and take a hammer to the whole $100 I had invested in the lower materials.
Originally Posted By WARDOG7366:
Originally Posted By AJ_Dual:
It's legal because there is no Federal law preventing it.
So there's no law saying it's "okay", it just is. That's why you can't find it. ....CA laws, I'm sure, have a bunch of BS attached to them.
Gotcha....
But how about case law for those that have been through the ringer for possessing (without prohibition factors) a home-made firearm without a serial # and coming out on top. Case Law decision is your defense as long as the case is similar in circumstance.
Why would you try and sell a home built AR lower? I would rather strip the parts from the lower, remove the upper, and take a hammer to the whole $100 I had invested in the lower materials.
The only case that even touches on it that I'm aware of is the Maadi-Griffin case, where ATF used their "8 hours" definition to bust a guy (Bob Stewart) who was making 80% .50BMG kits to sell, claiming the 8-hour rule made him a felon in possession.
The 10th amendment is the once you are interested in. All powers not delegated by the Constitution, nor prohibited, are reserved for the states or to the people.
Basically, you check federal laws first. If there's nothing preventing it from the federal law, you check state law. If state law does not prevent it, you are delegated that power.
Originally Posted By WARDOG7366:
Originally Posted By AJ_Dual:
It's legal because there is no Federal law preventing it.
So there's no law saying it's "okay", it just is. That's why you can't find it. ....CA laws, I'm sure, have a bunch of BS attached to them.
Gotcha....
But how about case law for those that have been through the ringer for possessing (without prohibition factors) a home-made firearm without a serial # and coming out on top. Case Law decision is your defense as long as the case is similar in circumstance.
Why would you try and sell a home built AR lower? I would rather strip the parts from the lower, remove the upper, and take a hammer to the whole $100 I had invested in the lower materials.
There is NO Federal Law that requires a serial number on a home-made firearm. In fact, commercially made and sold firearms did not have to be serialized until 1968. There are a ton of those unnumbered older guns around-all perfectly legal.
ATF does suggest that you serialize your home-made firearm in case it is ever lost or stolen-but that isn't a matter of law, it's just a suggestion.
State and local laws may require a serial number. Federal does not.
Its pretty simple really. You train your officers to check the weapon. If they don't see a serial number they ask why. If the answer is "I made it myself" that is a perfectly acceptable answer. Training over!
Not likely anything as modern as an AR but older guns are very common to not have serial numbers, I personally have 2. So why all the fuss over the serial number?
But why would a local LEO worry over federal law? You can't enforce it, you have to call someone else anyway.
I can't find any California law that requires a serial number on home made firearms.
This is why I am trying to get all of this together as a training bulletin:
Without having trained officers to recognize a firearm without a serial # is not a crime in itself, this is the problem Californians could have. Officers understand older firearms may not have a serial number, but not modern AR's.
23900 PC. Any person who changes, alters, removes, or obliterates the
name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of
identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned
by the Department of Justice, on any pistol, revolver, or any other
firearm, without first having secured written permission from the
department to make that change, alteration, or removal shall be
punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
This would be the punishment as a felony
1170 (h) (1) PC Except as provided in paragraph (3), a felony punishable
pursuant to this subdivision where the term is not specified in the
underlying offense shall be punishable by a term of imprisonment in a
county jail for 16 months, or two or three years.
This would be the problem if the firearm was taken into evidence on a false arrest, or even possibly for safekeeping for unrelated charges. The Evidence Tech / Property Room would engrave / apply a serial # to the lower receiver so it may be tracked internally, out to court, destruction or adjudication of the case. I have only seen this happen in the case where a serial number has been ground of or obliterated on a firearm. While I have seen many AR's with scratched out serial numbers, I never saw one that just never had a serial #.
23910 PC. The Department of Justice upon request may assign a
distinguishing number or mark of identification to any firearm
whenever the firearm lacks a manufacturer's number or other mark of
identification, or whenever the manufacturer's number or other mark
of identification or a distinguishing number or mark assigned by the
department has been destroyed or obliterated.
Originally Posted By crazyelece:
.....But why would a local LEO worry over federal law? You can't enforce it, you have to call someone else anyway.
Local Law Enforcement officers CAN enforce Federal Law. They don't need the FBI to fly out just to make arrests for immigrations violations, violations of interstate flight, interstate drug or weapons trafficking, human trafficking etc, theft from Federal Establishments etc. ALL violations of Federal Law.
A County or Municipal California Peace officer can chase you accross the cstate as well. The, "Youre out of your jurisdiction officer does not apply within the State your are sworn in as a Peace Officer.
Not meaning to hijack the thread but my question is related and my search didn't prove useful.
So it seems pretty clear that building your own is perfectly legal in most locals. What about pistols? I have a friend who wants to get in on an 80% lower group buy and he wants to do a pistol. I have no interests in an AR pistol so I've never even looked at this as an option.
Your shared knowledge and expertise is appreciated.
A pistol is just another firearm, with the caveat that most states prohibit minors from possessing them at all, except under very rigid circumstances.
Unless state or local law says differently, anyone 18+ can make pistols for personal use, just like long guns.
Although a serial number is not required by federal law on firearms built for personal use, the ATF does highly reccomend that a personal use weapon
be marked with a serial number, date, and place/location of manufacture.
Those laws that you state seem to be about weapons that have serial numbers and they have been removed or altered to hide their true identification marks. We all understand why they exist. They try to prevent someone getting a stolen firearm or using a stolen firearm that has had its true identity altered. The 18 U.S.C. that is quoted above may be what you are looking for.
Originally Posted By Circuits:
A pistol is just another firearm, with the caveat that most states prohibit minors from possessing them at all, except under very rigid circumstances.
Unless state or local law says differently, anyone 18+ can make pistols for personal use, just like long guns.
The law rarely gives permissions about what you CAN DO.
It lists things you CANNOT do.
Anything not prohibited is allowed.
The state of Virginia has NO LAW prohibition on open carry of firearms, therefore is is legal to open carry.
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By Circuits:
A pistol is just another firearm, with the caveat that most states prohibit minors from possessing them at all, except under very rigid circumstances.
Unless state or local law says differently, anyone 18+ can make pistols for personal use, just like long guns.
The law rarely gives permissions about what you CAN DO.
It lists things you CANNOT do.
Anything not prohibited is allowed.
The state of Virginia has NO LAW prohibition on open carry of firearms, therefore is is legal to open carry.
Indeed.
OP - I saw your identical post in the build it section. This Q. has been thoroughly addressed.
