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FL resident buying a stripped lower in MN
8/12/2011 5:08:07 AM
OK, question for anyone that might know about this. I have a house in FL and maintain FL residency and a FL driver's license for college tuition reasons but I live and work in MN. I have paycheck stubs and an apartment lease with my name on it in MN. Basically, it's a dual residency. I also have a MN non-resident permit to carry. I want to buy a Larue stripped lower and have it shipped here but I'm unsure how to go about it. I suspect most MN FFLs would be leery of doing the transfer but after studying the ATF's rules, it seems like this should be perfectly legal to do as I do live and work here and ARs are legal both here and in FL.
Any advice?
Thanks in advance.
ETA1: I also intend to apply for the paperwork to turn this rifle into an SBR down the road.
ETA2:
For anyone stumbling across this thread while searching, Here are some pertinent excerpts from http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html
Any advice?
Thanks in advance.
ETA1: I also intend to apply for the paperwork to turn this rifle into an SBR down the road.
ETA2:
For anyone stumbling across this thread while searching, Here are some pertinent excerpts from http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html
Q: What constitutes residency in a State?
The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.
[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]
The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.
[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]
Q: May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?
If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.
[27 CFR 478.11]
If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.
[27 CFR 478.11]
8/12/2011 5:42:37 AM
As long as you can satisfy the residency requirements then you should be able to purchase it there. Not all dealers are comfortable with this type of transfer so just look around and find a dealer who understands the law and go from there.
8/12/2011 6:38:13 AM
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
8/12/2011 8:11:29 AM
Originally Posted By VarmitSniper:
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
Is that Minnesota law because that is not federal law?
8/12/2011 9:22:06 AM
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Is that Minnesota law because that is not federal law?
Originally Posted By VarmitSniper:
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
Is that Minnesota law because that is not federal law?
You need something government-issued with a current address on it. A paystub or lease would not cut it, but a CHL, vehicle registration, city utility bill, hunting license, etc. would if it shows an MN address on it.
8/12/2011 3:06:49 PM
Originally Posted By nehpets99:
You need something government-issued with a current address on it. A paystub or lease would not cut it, but a CHL, vehicle registration, city utility bill, hunting license, etc. would if it shows an MN address on it.
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Is that Minnesota law because that is not federal law?
Originally Posted By VarmitSniper:
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
Is that Minnesota law because that is not federal law?
You need something government-issued with a current address on it. A paystub or lease would not cut it, but a CHL, vehicle registration, city utility bill, hunting license, etc. would if it shows an MN address on it.
Again, is that a MN law? The ATF says you must provide photo ID to prove who you are and a lease or utility bills for the past 90 days to document residency. It doesn't say the lease or utility bills have to be government issued.
8/12/2011 4:04:14 PM
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Again, is that a MN law? The ATF says you must provide photo ID to prove who you are and a lease or utility bills for the past 90 days to document residency. It doesn't say the lease or utility bills have to be government issued.
Originally Posted By nehpets99:
You need something government-issued with a current address on it. A paystub or lease would not cut it, but a CHL, vehicle registration, city utility bill, hunting license, etc. would if it shows an MN address on it.
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Is that Minnesota law because that is not federal law?
Originally Posted By VarmitSniper:
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
You will need a Minnesota drivers license.
Is that Minnesota law because that is not federal law?
You need something government-issued with a current address on it. A paystub or lease would not cut it, but a CHL, vehicle registration, city utility bill, hunting license, etc. would if it shows an MN address on it.
Again, is that a MN law? The ATF says you must provide photo ID to prove who you are and a lease or utility bills for the past 90 days to document residency. It doesn't say the lease or utility bills have to be government issued.
It's federal law.
From the 4473:
20a. Identification (e.g., Virginia Driver's license (VADL) or other valid government-issued photo identification.)
...
20b. Alternate Documentation (if driver's license or other identification document does not show current residence address)
...
20b. Alternate Documentation (if driver's license or other identification document does not show current residence address)
From the instructions for questions 20a and 20b:
A combination of government-issued documents may be provided. For example, if a U.S. citizen has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver's license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address.
So subbing in the info from the OP into what I just quoted..."If cgrant26 has MN and FL as his states of residence and is trying to buy a stripped lower in MN, he may provide a driver's license issued by FL and another government-issued document from MN showing his residence address."
8/12/2011 6:42:01 PM
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Again, is that a MN law? The ATF says you must provide photo ID to prove who you are and a lease or utility bills for the past 90 days to document residency. It doesn't say the lease or utility bills have to be government issued.
Again, is that a MN law? The ATF says you must provide photo ID to prove who you are and a lease or utility bills for the past 90 days to document residency. It doesn't say the lease or utility bills have to be government issued.
The only time you must show 90 days residency is if you are an alien. ATF allows bank statements, utility bills etc to satisfy this requirement.
A US citizen who's government issued photo ID does not show his current residence address.....needs to provide "alternate documentation" which must be government issued documents that do show the current residence address.
8/13/2011 12:23:44 AM
OK, thanks for straightening me out.
Serious question - would a dog license be an acceptable govt issued document?
Serious question - would a dog license be an acceptable govt issued document?
8/13/2011 1:49:36 AM
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
OK, thanks for straightening me out.
Serious question - would a dog license be an acceptable govt issued document?
OK, thanks for straightening me out.
Serious question - would a dog license be an acceptable govt issued document?
If it has your name and current residence address it should be fine as long as it came from a government agency and not a vet.
Be aware that there are some "less enlightened" dealers who will refuse the sale because they just don't know how to proceed. The Form 4473 has instructions that will give them the answers they need. They record the "alternate documentation" on the second page at Question 20b.
8/13/2011 2:07:33 AM
Thanks for the help guys. Arfcom delivers again!
8/14/2011 2:24:35 AM
Just get an identification card from MN.
8/14/2011 2:30:36 AM
Don't you also have to get some type of permit in minnesota to buy an "assault rifle"?
8/15/2011 1:27:05 PM
Originally Posted By DigDug:
Don't you also have to get some type of permit in minnesota to buy an "assault rifle"?
Don't you also have to get some type of permit in minnesota to buy an "assault rifle"?
Permit to purchase is required for pistols and "assault rifles", but a MN carry permit doubles as a permit to purchase so I should be good there.
8/21/2011 8:40:47 AM
ID and residency requirement excerpts from the 4473. AFAIK this is the current revised 4473.
8/27/2011 12:00:51 AM
Don't mention anything about living in FL.
Just show the required docs - Passport, tax statements, whatever to meet the requirements.
Just show the required docs - Passport, tax statements, whatever to meet the requirements.
8/28/2011 12:43:40 PM
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Don't mention anything about living in FL.
Just show the required docs - Passport, tax statements, whatever to meet the requirements.
Don't mention anything about living in FL.
Just show the required docs - Passport, tax statements, whatever to meet the requirements.
He has to, he has to show his driver's license, which is a FL DL.
No matter what other documentation you may have, you MUST provide a driver's license (or other photo ID) to fill out a 4473.
9/6/2011 10:56:43 AM
How about a non driver ID. In VT these are often issued to show eligibility to purchase alcohol by college students. Does MN have a similar ID? If so this should meet the requirements.
Mike
Mike
