I thought I had a right to a jury trial?

A few weeks ago, the parking automated garage at my gym rejected my valid credit card. I drove under the gate, allegedly causing $120 in damage, according to the Tampa PD officer that showed up at my door at 0200. He wrote me a notice to appear for criminal mischief, despite the fact that he admitted there was no intent. Our statute reads "willfully and maliciously", or something to that effect.

So I show up for arraignment today, and they've got the assembly line ready. 1 public defender for roughly 100 folks. She's not available for consultation, and these poor bastards are pleading guilty, and taking diversion programs without ever speaking to a lawyer.

I'm up, and motion to dismiss based on the fact that the automated gate refused an advertised form of payment, thereby showing there was no malice. Rejected.

I ask for a jury trial. He says I can't do it without a lawyer due to evidentiary procedures. I ask about a PD, and he proceeds to tell me that some juries are "offended" by cases this inconsequential.



I don't want my case decided from the bench. I want six of the dumbest fuckers on the planet to hear, and judge my case. I'm broke. How do I force this cock to allow me representation and a jury trial?

Don't know what Florida state law provides but the Constitutional right to a jury trial does not apply to "petty offenses" which usually means offenses for which a jail sentence of less than six months is imposed.

You have problems. Try to fill out a plea for jury trial with the clerk. if you are broke - and I mean really broke there may a In forma pauperis (I'm broke) way to navigate things. But you have to be damned near homeless for them to buy that . . .

The stuff about evidentiary procedures went over my head. I am clueless on FL law and law in general. Not only are juries offended, remember that if they convict, you can almost bet the judge will max you out on the charge for making him/her listen to the case.

How long you gonna play with this? What is the fine again? What is your time worth? The decision is one only you can make.

I got whacked on a $60 fine once that was total BS. Appeal cost $60 win or lose. I was livid, but didn't have the $60. Nobody wins them all.

You obviously feel that you were entitled to drive under the gate once your card was rejected.

Perhaps that was not your smartest choice, but maybe you behave that way all the time.

0.1 on the sympathy meter.

+1

Call it learning a lesson the hard way.

Sounds like you damaged their property.

Pay up.

Or he might have a cause of action for the intentional tort of false imprisonment.

That was the suggestion from a local deputy and an officer across the bay.

The automated machine has a Visa logo.

I had a valid Visa card, with an adequate balance. The failure was on their end.


How many forms of payment should I be forced to carry?

Am I required to carry a credit card, in case the dollar bill changer fails? Should I have an ashtray full of whatever metal dollar the post office gives out as change?

Thanks for the "help"

Good info. I wasn't aware of that, and am thankful I didn't push the issue with the judge.

My business is weeks away from being dissolved. I'll most likely be sleeping on a buddy's couch starting in September.

Quite honestly, the sentence will likely be damages + court costs.

I'm in a hole financially, and really don't feel like I should be paying for someone's equipment failure.

I'm sorry you're in dire straits. I hope things get better for you.

Just because it didn't accept your card, it doesn't give you the right to damage someone else's property. Crap happens. And if this is the way you deal with it, you're going to learn a lot more expensive lessons. If I stick my credit card into a vending machine for a Coke, and I don't get my coke, does that give me the right to put a brick into the machine? Apparently, you think it does.

If you drove 'under' it, how did you do $120 in damages?

were you able to get out of your car and walk around the gate? if so, you weren't falsely imprisoned.

You will get nowhere with this claim.

You willingly entered and did not pay.

$120 for a wood plank with some nerf padding even with labor seems a little excessive.

You still seem incapable of grasping the fact that you are paying for your actions, not "someone's equipment failure."

By the way, be sure to tell the Judge "I'm in a hole financially, and really don't feel like I should be paying for someone's equipment failure."

That will really impress him.

So I forfeit my car when his phone line goes down?

How about when his currency box fails?

Power outage?

That was the officer's estimate.

I'm sure it will be more by my court date.

I don't want to tell the judge shit.

I want a jury trial.



What would you have done? Spent the night?

ETA: This isn't GD. Feel free to go not help someone elsewhere.

How do they know it was you driving the car?

If the power outage was caused by a storm, "Act of YOUR god".

Welcome to hell homeboy.

No offense, but you cannot sit on your own jury.

I thought pleading "Not Guilty" got you the jury trial or at least another court date.

Quick question to some posters. It would not accept his payment even though it stated it should accept that form of payment. So the gate will not open. How do you get out? Do you sit all day and wait for someone to come and fix it? Who do you call?

What if you have somewhere of some importance to be? Say it has to do with public safety in your job?

Not trying to be contrary but some honest questions. I normally am not in favor of destroying someone else's property but what if you cannot get out. It is a form of imprisonment in some ways then.

And an hour to go by the lumber yard, get wood, get [paint, paint the plank, then mount it to the control arm.

Sounds more like a good deal.

NM.

Would you break into a coke machine that didn't accept your dollar? Not trying to be a smart ass, just curious.

Go back into the gym, and tell them the garage didn't take your card, have them swipe it, and let you out. Five minutes lost. How terrible.

Besides, how much are we talking about? $5? Anyone who goes out in their car without even $5 in cash deserves whatever crap they end up in. I have at least $20 in all of my vehicles in case I ever forget my wallet. Hell, I could probably scrape together $5 from all the loose change rattling around in my center console.

PSGWSP. OP made a bad choice over a pittance, time to pay up.

Yes, in his circumstances I agree. What if it is a parking garage on Sunday with no attendant and no open business nearby? I have encountered parking lots in major cities like this. And what if the machine is broke and will not accept cash either? Worst case scenario in other words.

I want to know how the OP drove under the gate.

There was the adult way to deal with it which may have involved some inconvenience on his part which would have put the company in charge of the parking lot in jeopardy.
Then there was the imature way to deal with it that ended with him being in trouble with the law.

It may have been an inconvenience to be trapped in the lot, how much of an inconvenience is going before a judge?

His life wasn't in danger, if he'd have backed off and tried to contact someone he wouldn't be in trouble now. Make a complaint and have a paper trail, if covers you if you're late back to work etc, If he was in danger, do what needs to be done, and contact the police and report the issue.

And if he damaged the mechanical unit and not just the replaceable arm?

I brought this up because this happened to a friend of mine. He parked in a lot on Sunday afternoon. When he tried to leave the exit would not take cash or a credit card. There was no number to contact someone or name of who owned the parking garage. All businesses were closed. He called the police by getting a hold of information since it was not an emergency. The police were not helpful in that they said if his life was not in danger they could not do anything to help him. In addition, they did not know who owned the parking garage and were not in the mood to find out for him. He told them he was not going to sit in there all day or leave his vehicle there. They told him to do what he had to do. Now he did not break the gate like the OP. But he had his tool kit with him and was able to disassembly the guard arm so he could get out. He did not damage it in any way and put it up so it would not be damaged by anyone else. He also took photos of it if this became an issue. The company that owned it did try to make an issue out of it but he countered it by sending them a bill for his services ( he is a mechanical engineer for his services and lost time) and they dropped it. The device was not damaged so their case was weak. Just an example where sometimes you have to do what you have to do to resolve a problem

I would start by asking the cop if he would drop the charge if you pay to fix the gate to the owner's isatisfaction. This will require you to be a really nice guy and admit it was a stupid thing to do, but you don't want to get a criminal record over this and you'll pay for the damage, and you're really sorry, etc. This actually works a lot.

Here in SC we have something called a "conditional discharge" which means the charges are basically dropped if you don't get into trouble for six months. You might ask him about that too.

I'd break the coke machine if I was trapped in it.

Gate hit about 6" above the wipers. Forward motion of vehicle vectored gate up, and over vehicle. Gate left black mark from A pillar to C pillar, which has since disappeared due to occasional precipitation.


It's not rocket science, and no MS paint will follow.

$2 actually.

My gym is a tenant of the building, not the owner of the parking facility.

I'm pretty sure a vendor running a CC for cash is a violation of their agreement.


As I've stated previously, what if the dollar bill changer takes a dump? Do you have a few Visa cards laying around your messy car?

You have to factor in labor and it usually does more damage
than you think. I handle insurance claims like this all the time.

OP... was there a phone number on the machine to call?

And get even later.

Actually, I do. Spare credit card and at least $20 are in all three of my vehicles. And my cars aren't messy, I just have a ton of change in the center consoles.

Let's stop with the hypotheticals. There are always options. Talk to someone in the building, call the 800 number on the card reader, etc. You can't blame someone else; it was your decision to drive under the gate (without even thinking of removing your license plate - sheesh ) . Now face the consequences.

You weren't trapped in the garage either. Your car might have been, but you weren't.

If your keys were magically inside that Coke bottle, and it didn't take your dollar, would you then still break into the vending machine to get your keys?


Just for shits and giggles, what steps did you take to contact anyone, or find a non-destructive remedy? If the cops showed up at your place at 0200, something tells me that the garage owners were available if you tried. Not like they'd ignore you calls for help while dialing 911 to report you for damaging their stuff.
Also, if it's just shits and giggles questions, how do you know that their machine didn't work and it wasn't just that the magnetic strip on YOUR credit card wasn't worn outside of specs?

Not that any of that matters, because breaking someones stuff because you're impatient is bullshit.

If you cannot get a hold of someone then do like my friend did and have a tool kit in your car so you can disassembly the arm. That way at least you are not destroying the device. Last resort only if you cannot get anyone to help.

Citypeople

You keep an active credit card loose in all three of your vehicles and $20 cash as well? Are you constantly monitoring all 3 of them or are two of the three in the garage? That seems like a bad idea.

.....

Case predictably got nolle prossed, as there was no malice involved; therefore, it didn't meet the statute's definition.


Misdemeanor court is fucking broken. If you can't afford a lawyer, you are absolutely fucked. I've spent a couple of dozen hours hanging around circuit court for work, so I have a rough idea how felony trials work. Hillsborough County court is not even a vague approximation of a real courtroom.

The room was filled with roughly a dozen defendants. Judge does a roll call, where the def is supposed to answer if they are ready to go to trial. Five people answer in the affirmative, and are promptly NP'd out the door. The judge calls a black kid, who is at best, borderline retarded. He rambles on for roughly three minutes that he needs legal counsel, and is therefore definitely NOT ready for trial. The judge replies that because the sentence will not involve jail time, a PD will not be appointed. No financial eligibility requirements were discussed in my time in court. Judging from the crowd's look, the whole courtroom was eligible.


What kind of justice system are we running, where a qualified, extremely needy young man is denied the legal counsel he is BEGGING for?

Probably the same kind of system that generates folks that break shit because they're not able to figure out a simple problem.

Disregard

When the fuck did this become GD?

I'm by no means calling you an asshole, but rolling into the legal section, dropping personal attacks, and offering NOTHING constructive to the thread, certainly indicates you share qualities in common with one.

When you go to a store and the door is locked do you kick it in because you should be able to buy something when you want?
You broke something, pay for or fix and get over it.

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