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Toxic products sold with impunity?
7/10/2011 3:11:13 AM
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
7/10/2011 3:22:05 AM
Are they tring to hide it?
I have sold coatings products that will melt your skin off. I tell people it will and the label says so. The market cannot produce an alternative that works as well.
I have sold coatings products that will melt your skin off. I tell people it will and the label says so. The market cannot produce an alternative that works as well.
7/10/2011 3:34:38 AM
I really don't recall if anything is mentioned on the label, but it's not spoken of in the field to my knowledge.
7/10/2011 3:52:14 AM
Warning labels? Construction has some serious shit out there. I've had dissolvents in containers that had skull and crossbone emblems stamped all across the product on any open space that was available.
7/10/2011 3:53:58 AM
Did a quick search and it appears the gov. mandates informing users of the proper respirators to use. The article I read had no mention of skin absorption. I guess the answer is going to be in backroom deals and/or mfg. profit.
7/10/2011 3:56:05 AM
Originally Posted By Kihn:
Warning labels?
Warning labels?
Not a lawyer but warning labels may absolve the mfg of all liability, along with recommended precautions to take.
7/10/2011 12:48:00 PM
Is there an Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product?
7/10/2011 12:53:55 PM
If people are so lazy as to not read what is on the labels and directions, [and they don't most of the time] they should be responsible for the consequences. I can find some very nasty deadly chemicals in EVERY household in America, and I LIKE that. Because, without them, life would be much harder. Common sense and personal responsibility, how does it ?
7/10/2011 12:59:28 PM
Ahhh, try reading the labels.
And then, you can always download an MSDS for damn near any product out there.
This is why irons have warning labels on them that state "Don't iron cloths while wearing them."
And then, you can always download an MSDS for damn near any product out there.
This is why irons have warning labels on them that state "Don't iron cloths while wearing them."
7/10/2011 1:32:47 PM
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
7/11/2011 2:07:12 AM
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Is there an Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product?
Is there an Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product?
This has been some years ago and I don't know.
7/11/2011 2:14:53 AM
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
7/11/2011 6:21:02 AM
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
If it's being used in a shop/business there damn well should be an MSDS for any chemical used there.
Hell, we had to have MSDSs for distilled water, and the water had to be stored in the Hazmat locker.
7/11/2011 6:40:55 AM
I knew a kid who took a part time job spraying for Mosquitos. He signed a waiver that the product could make him sterile and that he would not sue if it did.
At the end of the summer he was sterile. I've always wondered if he was FOS or the dumbest man alive.
At the end of the summer he was sterile. I've always wondered if he was FOS or the dumbest man alive.
7/11/2011 1:25:32 PM
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
There are existing OSHA regulations regarding the availability of MSDS. Again, your belief that someone is "getting away" with something is simply not correct. The obligation of the manufacturer is to provide the MSDS, the obligation of the facility using the products are to train their employees and make the MSDS' available.
7/11/2011 1:30:24 PM
Originally Posted By bytor94:
This is why irons have warning labels on them that state "Don't iron cloths while wearing them."
This is why irons have warning labels on them that state "Don't iron cloths while wearing them."
Seriously? I was wondering why I kept burning myself.
7/12/2011 12:26:34 PM
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
Like say ammunition for firearms?
When used for its intended purpose it is VERY dangerous, often deadly.
If you drink an excessive amount of water you can die.
Should there be a warning on every bottle?
7/12/2011 12:57:35 PM
Gasoline is one of the nastiest substances out there, yet you can get it on almost any street corner...
7/12/2011 3:36:40 PM
So are we ever going to be told which product this is?
7/12/2011 3:39:33 PM
Originally Posted By bytor94:
So are we ever going to be told which product this is?
So are we ever going to be told which product this is?
I doubt it.
7/12/2011 3:39:49 PM
Originally Posted By bytor94:
If it's being used in a shop/business there damn well should be an MSDS for any chemical used there.
Hell, we had to have MSDSs for distilled water, and the water had to be stored in the Hazmat locker.
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
If it's being used in a shop/business there damn well should be an MSDS for any chemical used there.
Hell, we had to have MSDSs for distilled water, and the water had to be stored in the Hazmat locker.
Were you working in a shop with the aliens from Signs?
7/12/2011 3:55:21 PM
Originally Posted By allenNH:
Were you working in a shop with the aliens from Signs?
Originally Posted By bytor94:
If it's being used in a shop/business there damn well should be an MSDS for any chemical used there.
Hell, we had to have MSDSs for distilled water, and the water had to be stored in the Hazmat locker.
If it's being used in a shop/business there damn well should be an MSDS for any chemical used there.
Hell, we had to have MSDSs for distilled water, and the water had to be stored in the Hazmat locker.
Were you working in a shop with the aliens from Signs?
U.S. Army.
In the old days (before LCD/LED monitors) and I was still a green suiter, I kept a small bottle of Windex in my desk at work to clean smudges off the CRT screen. Some people just couldn't keep their fingers from them.
We had an inspection one day, and they found my little bottle. Dang, you would have thought I had sexed up the Post Commander's 16 year old daughter.
They were seriously talking about EPA fines because there wasn't an MSDS for it.
7/12/2011 4:08:45 PM
Originally Posted By bytor94:
U.S. Army.
In the old days (before LCD/LED monitors) and I was still a green suiter, I kept a small bottle of Windex in my desk at work to clean smudges off the CRT screen. Some people just couldn't keep their fingers from them.
We had an inspection one day, and they found my little bottle. Dang, you would have thought I had sexed up the Post Commander's 16 year old daughter.
They were seriously talking about EPA fines because there wasn't an MSDS for it.
Originally Posted By allenNH:
Were you working in a shop with the aliens from Signs?
Originally Posted By bytor94:
If it's being used in a shop/business there damn well should be an MSDS for any chemical used there.
Hell, we had to have MSDSs for distilled water, and the water had to be stored in the Hazmat locker.
If it's being used in a shop/business there damn well should be an MSDS for any chemical used there.
Hell, we had to have MSDSs for distilled water, and the water had to be stored in the Hazmat locker.
Were you working in a shop with the aliens from Signs?
U.S. Army.
In the old days (before LCD/LED monitors) and I was still a green suiter, I kept a small bottle of Windex in my desk at work to clean smudges off the CRT screen. Some people just couldn't keep their fingers from them.
We had an inspection one day, and they found my little bottle. Dang, you would have thought I had sexed up the Post Commander's 16 year old daughter.
They were seriously talking about EPA fines because there wasn't an MSDS for it.
Ahhhhhhhhhh... ARMY. That explains it.
ETA: To be fair, I was changing my radiator out in an apartment building parking lot a few years ago, just finished topping it off with coolant and water, and was taking a long pull from the leftover distilled water jug. Some guy came over to stop me, because drinking distilled water would "kill me."
7/14/2011 1:55:05 AM
Originally Posted By bytor94:
So are we ever going to be told which product this is?
So are we ever going to be told which product this is?
Just an oversight, since I figured there were many different products that fit the same scenario.
Specifically, auto paint hardner with Isocyanates. Polyurethane paints probably also have them.
7/18/2011 8:14:46 AM
Mfr's can sell it if there are no laws against it.
7/19/2011 10:03:43 PM
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
The employer or user is responsible for safe use of the product. The MSDS will provide info on proper use and protection. Following is a link to Dupont MSDS for reference.
Dupont MSDS
7/20/2011 2:25:09 AM
I think the worst is the natural cures like the detox foot bath. Plunge your feet into a electrified salt metal bath?
7/21/2011 12:02:32 PM
Originally Posted By Batcave South:
This has been some years ago and I don't know.
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Is there an Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product?
Is there an Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product?
This has been some years ago and I don't know.
Originally Posted By Batcave South:
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Originally Posted By Batcave South:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
If this was some years ago, then why are you bring it up now? Idle curiosity? Or something else?
If you know what it is (and it seems you do), then you should be able to do an Internet search and find the MSDS.
If the shop failed to train its employees and used the product in a manner not consistent / in compliance with the MSDS and manufacturer's instructions and / or other employees were collaterally exposed, is this what you are trying to work around to? Some sore of liability / health / disability action?
That has nothing to do with whether the manufacturer legally sells the product. And as a non-attorney who believes in personal responsibility and proximate cause vice "deep pockets" I also believe that if the shop or its employees were acting in a way that was not in compliance with the MSDS or the manufacturer's instructions that really is the shop or the primary using employee's fault, not the manufacturer.
If the end-user in a shop some where is haphazardly and incorrectly using this unknown product it isn't the fault of a bloated plutocratic top-hat-and-spats-wearing greedy capitalist oppressor of the common man manufacturer doing some nefarious back-room evil aided and abetted by crooked politicians screwing the little guy for easy profits at the expense of widows and orphans is it?
No. Its the assclown misusing the chemical in his hand's fault.
7/21/2011 1:06:42 PM
Ethylene Glycol... used to have it in 55 gallon drums and we'd fill the heat exchanger reservoirs on the airplanes with it... mix it with distlled water, test with hygrometer to proper level then hope the pilot would shut up about smell in the cockpit. (Long story on the F-111's).
Coolanol-35... nasty, slimy, coolant fluid that was used on the EF-111A to keep the jammers cool. Nasty shit. Had to wear protective gear but it was too slick to use with gloves. Had to do and undo wiggins fittings with bare hands... then safety wire. The shit leaked like a seive.
This was years ago when I was in the USAF.
Nowadays, I can but shit much worse than that... to stick tile to a floor, to clean my tub, to fill my gas tank...
Coolanol-35... nasty, slimy, coolant fluid that was used on the EF-111A to keep the jammers cool. Nasty shit. Had to wear protective gear but it was too slick to use with gloves. Had to do and undo wiggins fittings with bare hands... then safety wire. The shit leaked like a seive.
This was years ago when I was in the USAF.
Nowadays, I can but shit much worse than that... to stick tile to a floor, to clean my tub, to fill my gas tank...
7/21/2011 1:19:00 PM
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
If this was some years ago, then why are you bring it up now? Idle curiosity? Or something else?
If you know what it is (and it seems you do), then you should be able to do an Internet search and find the MSDS.
If the shop failed to train its employees and used the product in a manner not consistent / in compliance with the MSDS and manufacturer's instructions and / or other employees were collaterally exposed, is this what you are trying to work around to? Some sore of liability / health / disability action?
That has nothing to do with whether the manufacturer legally sells the product. And as a non-attorney who believes in personal responsibility and proximate cause vice "deep pockets" I also believe that if the shop or its employees were acting in a way that was not in compliance with the MSDS or the manufacturer's instructions that really is the shop or the primary using employee's fault, not the manufacturer.
If the end-user in a shop some where is haphazardly and incorrectly using this unknown product it isn't the fault of a bloated plutocratic top-hat-and-spats-wearing greedy capitalist oppressor of the common man manufacturer doing some nefarious back-room evil aided and abetted by crooked politicians screwing the little guy for easy profits at the expense of widows and orphans is it?
No. Its the assclown misusing the chemical in his hand's fault.
Originally Posted By Batcave South:
This has been some years ago and I don't know.
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Is there an Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product?
Is there an Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the product?
This has been some years ago and I don't know.
Originally Posted By Batcave South:
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Originally Posted By Batcave South:
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
It has puzzled me for some time how a mfg. can sell a product they know is toxic and even tell their employees. In this case a paint product that will attach to white corpuscles via inhaling fumes or absorbed though the skin and is irreversible. How does the mfg. get away with it?
Everything is "toxic" to some degree. The dose makes the poison. Things that are useful always have dangers or side effects. That's called reality. There is extensive regulation on what disclosures must be made in terms of labeling and Material Safety Data Sheets. I doubt anyone is getting away with anything.
Assuming this info is available to the end user (I highly doubt the details and degree of the toxicity is noted on the product), the product is used in shop areas where others are exposed.
If this was some years ago, then why are you bring it up now? Idle curiosity? Or something else?
If you know what it is (and it seems you do), then you should be able to do an Internet search and find the MSDS.
If the shop failed to train its employees and used the product in a manner not consistent / in compliance with the MSDS and manufacturer's instructions and / or other employees were collaterally exposed, is this what you are trying to work around to? Some sore of liability / health / disability action?
That has nothing to do with whether the manufacturer legally sells the product. And as a non-attorney who believes in personal responsibility and proximate cause vice "deep pockets" I also believe that if the shop or its employees were acting in a way that was not in compliance with the MSDS or the manufacturer's instructions that really is the shop or the primary using employee's fault, not the manufacturer.
If the end-user in a shop some where is haphazardly and incorrectly using this unknown product it isn't the fault of a bloated plutocratic top-hat-and-spats-wearing greedy capitalist oppressor of the common man manufacturer doing some nefarious back-room evil aided and abetted by crooked politicians screwing the little guy for easy profits at the expense of widows and orphans is it?
No. Its the assclown misusing the chemical in his hand's fault.
Yep. It's seriously beginning to sound like he's thinking about shopping for a lawyer to sue the manufacturer.
I highly doubt that the manufacturer withheld needed information from the end-user. If the MSDS did not arrive with the product, there are many ways of getting it.
Sounds like he was exposed in a shop setting, and thinks that his health problems are because of that exposure.
7/22/2011 3:22:58 AM
"Cough" "Cough" Anybody have a good lawyer's name? 
7/22/2011 7:42:19 AM
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
"Cough" "Cough" Anybody have a good lawyer's name?
"Cough" "Cough" Anybody have a good lawyer's name?
call the Tennessee Bar Association and ask them for a referral. Seriously.
Or use Google and look up "best ____ attorney in _______."
7/23/2011 3:44:24 AM
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
call the Tennessee Bar Association and ask them for a referral. Seriously.
Or use Google and look up "best ____ attorney in _______."
Originally Posted By BatcaveSouth:
"Cough" "Cough" Anybody have a good lawyer's name?
"Cough" "Cough" Anybody have a good lawyer's name?
call the Tennessee Bar Association and ask them for a referral. Seriously.
Or use Google and look up "best ____ attorney in _______."
thanks , but I was just kidding because of the speculation above. Just curious about product liability and how it works.
