AR15.Com Archives
 Does Obama's health care reform plan call for a RFID to be implanted in participants?
Phil_A_Steen  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 6:47:50 AM EST
It seems that some envision every participant in the new nationalized health care system will be required to be radiochipped (like a dog) to allow identification and synchronization of medical records. Is this really going to happen?
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Mcboogles  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 6:49:23 AM EST
No?
Maynard  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 6:52:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Is this really going to happen?

It's not going to happen to me.


davis9588  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 6:53:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Maynard:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Is this really going to happen?

It's not going to happen to me.




this.
Dave_A  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 6:55:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
It seems that some envision every participant in the new nationalized health care system will be required to be radiochipped (like a dog) to allow identification and synchronization of medical records. Is this really going to happen?

No...

There's no reason...

The 'people-tracking' paranoids always come up with all of these elaborate schemes to explain HOW people will be required to get 'tracking devices' implanted, but cannot EVER explain what benefit there would be to the HUGE expense of having everyone 'chipped', or how the government would set up the required infastructure...

They will use Social Security Numbers to track medical records, just like the military does now....

Synchronization of medical records is a good idea in the PRIVATE health system, BTW... It does not have to be a 'National Health Care' sort of thing (and indeed, is one of the very common proposals from OPPONENTS of national health care, as a way to reduce costs).....

ken_mays  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 6:57:04 AM EST
Regardless of whether they're actually going to do it, that's a pretty good rumor to start passing around.

The best thing about it is that the administration can deny it all they want; they've had so many flip flops and outright lies that nobody will believe them anyway.
Mal_means_bad  [Member]
6/16/2009 6:59:01 AM EST
Yeah, I seriously doubt implants are in the works. Now, a health care ID card with an RFID chip summarizing your medical history? That's probably on the way.
gogoquadzilla  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 6:59:31 AM EST
new study shows tinfoil hats kill massive amounts of brain cells
CWO  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 6:59:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
It seems that some envision every participant in the new nationalized health care system will be required to be radiochipped (like a dog) to allow identification and synchronization of medical records. Is this really going to happen?


Source/basis of your statement?
TimJ  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:00:19 AM EST
666
Jammer1  [Member]
6/16/2009 7:03:25 AM EST
Tin foil on!
SmilingBandit  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:04:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
It seems that some envision every participant in the new nationalized health care system will be required to be radiochipped (like a dog) to allow identification and synchronization of medical records. Is this really going to happen?

No...

There's no reason...

The 'people-tracking' paranoids always come up with all of these elaborate schemes to explain HOW people will be required to get 'tracking devices' implanted, but cannot EVER explain what benefit there would be to the HUGE expense of having everyone 'chipped', or how the government would set up the required infastructure...

They will use Social Security Numbers to track medical records, just like the military does now....

Synchronization of medical records is a good idea in the PRIVATE health system, BTW... It does not have to be a 'National Health Care' sort of thing (and indeed, is one of the very common proposals from OPPONENTS of national health care, as a way to reduce costs).....



The benifit would be in the reduction of medical errors (don't forget that has been touted as one of the cost savings points). If a hospital could build a process where a nurse verified the orders against something identifyable about the person (not the chart) you could reduce the number of medication errors overnight.
Rattle_Snake  [Member]
6/16/2009 7:11:24 AM EST
A decent read on the subject. Warning a tin foil hat maybe needed.
Involuntary ID Chip Implants


You may already have a real ID chip implanted in you. This could've been done by injecting one of the small capsules with the ID chips in it with a type of syringe. If they wanted to be sneaky, they could've done it at your local hospital or doctor's office. After all, you probably identified yourself to them with your medical insurance card, Medicare card, and possibly even your Social Security number. If you don't think that there's a database with information about you somewhere that can be brought up with just a search by your Social Security number, you're still living in the 19th century.

One quick way to do it to you is to use that aforementioned syringe to stick the ID chip into you, and by doing it behind your back. Or to be more exact, in your back. Did a doctor, nurse, or intern say they found a zit in the middle of your back, and told you they were going to remove it, and did so either without telling you first, or by making it sound like a routine thing? Never noticed then, that it was the only time that a medical person did something like that? Now you've probably got an ID implant.

How do you check to see if you have one for sure? Well, that's going to be a little difficult. Laws will be passed that will make it illegal to read RFID tags if you don't have a right to. The government, being the benevolent entity that it is, who really cares about your privacy and would never do anything to violate it ( :-P ) decides who has that right.

From what I hear, they're already using RFID implants on prisoners and babies. Guess it's okay to do it to people if you don't give them any choice, or they can't take you to court...

Because the chips only cost a few cents to make, implanting people with ID chips isn't very expensive and can be done by almost anybody. Somebody can even come up to you on the street, grab your arm, and stick it in you in under a second, then run away. They can then stalk you without the risk of being spotted by you because they know where you are at all times by seeing your exact location on their cell phone or other device.

Bad news, people. Once you've had a real ID chip implanted into you, it'll be in you for life, unless you know a doctor you can truly trust, and many won't perform an operation like that. It's doubtful that it's covered by any medical plan, either, so even if they did, you'd be paying for it out of your own pocket. But then you'd have to ask yourself if you can trust the same kind of people who put it in you to take it out of you. If it becomes public knowledge that people have been implanted without their permission or knowledge, the manufactuer may create some kind of RFID blocker tags claiming that they render the original tag unreadable thus protecting your privacy. But again, would you be able to trust a company that made this stuff in the first place?

Sound too paranoid for you? I take it you don't read much history, or have any imagination.

The more technology that's created, the more chance of misuse, not to mention the loss of personal liberty and anonymity. When they started the Social Security system in 1935, there were a lot of people concerned that the Social Security numbers would be used as a form of national ID. People were assured that they would only be used by the Social Security Administration. And now... not only do you have to give out your SSN to your bank, employers and credit card companies, but utility and phone companies are demanding you give it to them as a way to identify you. Even certain stores, including several grocery stores, demand you give them your Social Security number before they give you a discount card. Supposedly, there's a legal limit on who can ask you for your Social Security number, but laws aren't enforced, even ones against modern day slavery. Check that page out to see for yourself. People can even find out your Social Security number by looking at election registration records in many places.

Btw, according to the 1974 Privacy Act here in the United States, it is unlawful for any local, state, or federal agency to deny someone "any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law" for refusing to disclose their Social Security numbers. If they do request your number, they're required to tell you whether or not it is mandatory that you give them your number. It is now supposedly required for things like tax purposes, registering a motor vehicle and getting a driver's license, but in the latter, most places don't require you to put it on your driver's license. Otherwise, you'd be showing your Social Security number to all kinds of people, including the bouncer at the door of your local bar.

The SSA (Social Security Agency) says that if a business or enterprise asks for your SSN, you can refuse to give it to them, but, it may mean they can deny you the service or product you were trying to get from them. Utility companies and other services ask for your SSN, but they don't need it. They can do a credit check or identify you by other means. If somebody requests it, don't be afraid to ask them:

Why do you need my Social Security Number?

How will you use my Social Security Number?

What happens if I refuse to give you my Social Security Number?

What law, if any, requires that I give you my Social Security Number?

Businesses should instead use things like a signature comparison system, a picture ID, a PIN, or even the account number, and other things, instead. If they give you an account number, what the heck is the use of it for if not to identify you?

People should listen to paranoids more often. They're usually much better at predicting the future than those who believe that humans will value other people's privacy, life, or liberty more than they would money or information. Information is one of the most valuable commodites. It's bought and sold like any other product, and you have no control over who has it or what they can do with it.

If you want predictions for the future, keep reading. But, I warn you, my predictions are usually very accurate.

In time, there will be devices set up to monitor people throughout a city, and if they're looking for a specific individual, they'll only have to ask the system to alert them when they're spotted by either a device that's set up to give casual scans of pedestrians or motorists, or people who use a real ID chip implant to prove their identity when they cash a check or something like that, and inform them of where they are. This fear that people had about not being able to trade without something being on their forehead or hand may not be too far from the truth, but not everyone can have the same number, like the antichrist's / anti-christ's number of the beast (666), as it wouldn't be a unique identifier.

People will complain that they're feeling de-humanized by things like RFID chips or tags, and some laws may be passed, if politicians care about people's privacy at all (I doubt it) but they'll not be good enough to keep businesses from using any technology they can use to track and monitor you as it pleases them.

The scanning systems can be stationary, and either made obvious to make the local population feel more secure, and act as a deterrent for the criminal element, or they can be hidden so that people aren't aware of them or their real function. Which will effectively remove any possibility of a public outcry over invading people's privacy. Some may even be fake scanners like there are fake security cameras so people will try to avoid them if they wish to hide, while the real ones are situated nearby in an area those who are attempting to avoid detection are almost certain to pass through to get to a tourist attraction such as a landmark or amusement park or a popular business or hangout.

You can even be scanned to learn who you are by those aforementioned satellites, or by a more localized mobile device. Tiny spying devices that are smaller than a paper clip have been under development for years, and many of them can fly like little insects or bugs. The robofly is one of the more well known. The cost to mass-produce things like roboflies is only a few dollars each, and this will gradually become cheaper, until it's only a few cents. Think how cheaply somebody can monitor you. And with a fairly good camera and transmitter, they can do it from quite a ways up in the air. If there's high winds, they can always anchor themselves to a building or a tree rather than waste power to keep the video stable. If need be, they can even attach themselves to your car, or another car that's behind you, going in the same direction you are.

People think they'll be able to spot things that are spying on them because they believe they'll be big enough to be used by human hands. But, if it's a self-contained machine that can draw power from things like wind or the sun, and doesn't need big controls on it, it can even be as small as a nanometer. And those things are being built, now.

Advertisers may soon be using the ability to identify you and know your location to send you advertisements. This could range from car dealerships and insurance companies to donut and coffee shops if you're in their area. And, because a lot of people use credit cards to buy things, they could send you ads targeting your specific interests, because they know what you've bought in the past. Teenagers may soon be getting short audio and/or video ads every time they get within a 1/4 mile of a music store. Adult men may have to endure condom commercials whenever they get near a drug store. Older people may get hit with messages to stock up on adult diapers.

You don't think advertisers will make use of this ability to send you advertisements that you didn't ask for? Look through your email or regular mail and after seeing all the spam / junk email / advertisements in it, ask yourself that question, again.



This technology and much more that you don't suspect is possible is already thought up, invented, manufactured, tested, and in use today. It wasn't so very long ago that the stuff that was written up in science fiction was considered to be nothing more than a whimsical flight of fancy, existing only within the author's mind, and the minds of her or his readers. The ray gun was sci-fi, and everyone thought it could never become real. Then the LASER (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation) was invented, used for the military and industry and now it's becoming a common school kid's toy. They even have laser keychains, keychains with lasers on them. LOL

It seems the more I learn, the more 'paranoid' I become. There's a lot of things they don't tell you about in school, too. And not just repressed technology. I've learned all kinds of things, even the origins of biological warfare. Would you believe that the Mongols were responsible for the spread of the Black Death throughout the Middle East, Europe, and Africa? They used catapults to hurl corpses of people killed by the plague into the city of Caffa, and those who fled the city spread it everywhere they went. By 1348, it had spread from Mecca all the way up to Barcelona.

All the technical stuff I know combined with my knowledge of history and my imagination, which was helped along considerably by reading literally thousands of sci-fi books, makes my mind visualize ways of doing bad things that I'm certain that the terrorist cells haven't thought of. The reason I know this is because they haven't done any of them, yet. And people wonder why I have nightmares...
NAKED-GUNMAN  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:13:45 AM EST
V
maddog_enigma  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:14:31 AM EST


READ IT.
Dave_A  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:14:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
It seems that some envision every participant in the new nationalized health care system will be required to be radiochipped (like a dog) to allow identification and synchronization of medical records. Is this really going to happen?

No...

There's no reason...

The 'people-tracking' paranoids always come up with all of these elaborate schemes to explain HOW people will be required to get 'tracking devices' implanted, but cannot EVER explain what benefit there would be to the HUGE expense of having everyone 'chipped', or how the government would set up the required infastructure...

They will use Social Security Numbers to track medical records, just like the military does now....

Synchronization of medical records is a good idea in the PRIVATE health system, BTW... It does not have to be a 'National Health Care' sort of thing (and indeed, is one of the very common proposals from OPPONENTS of national health care, as a way to reduce costs).....



The benifit would be in the reduction of medical errors (don't forget that has been touted as one of the cost savings points). If a hospital could build a process where a nurse verified the orders against something identifyable about the person (not the chart) you could reduce the number of medication errors overnight.

I'm not talking about synchronization of records... That can be done with a SSN and an arm-band....

I'm talking about the paranoid belief that the government wants to 'chip' and 'track' everyone...
MEH  [Member]
6/16/2009 7:16:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
It seems that some envision every participant in the new nationalized health care system will be required to be radiochipped (like a dog) to allow identification and synchronization of medical records. Is this really going to happen?


O rly?
CWO  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:29:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

The benifit would be in the reduction of medical errors (don't forget that has been touted as one of the cost savings points). If a hospital could build a process where a nurse verified the orders against something identifyable about the person (not the chart) you could reduce the number of medication errors overnight.


There is nothing your suggested model that couldn't be be done with a health card with a barcode or magstripe on it. Or a fingerprint.
CWO  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:32:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Rattle_Snake:
A decent read on the subject. Warning a tin foil hat maybe needed.
Involuntary ID Chip Implants


<snip> You may already have a real ID chip implanted in you. blah blah blah blah..........



That is one of the biggest loads of crap I have ever read here. (And I have read a lot of manure)
SmilingBandit  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:38:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

The benifit would be in the reduction of medical errors (don't forget that has been touted as one of the cost savings points). If a hospital could build a process where a nurse verified the orders against something identifyable about the person (not the chart) you could reduce the number of medication errors overnight.


There is nothing your suggested model that couldn't be be done with a health card with a barcode or magstripe on it. Or a fingerprint.


What good would a plastic card in your wallet do when you are an inpatient wearing a gown and nothing else?

I don't agree with the need, but Dave_A proposed that there was no reason to do it, I'm just throwing out reasons why someone would.
azmjs  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:40:34 AM EST
In the real world, extremely unlikely.

In fantasy america, it is probably on the very verge of happening tomorrow, and if you don't do it they take your guns and put you in a FEMA camp.

CWO  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:42:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

The benifit would be in the reduction of medical errors (don't forget that has been touted as one of the cost savings points). If a hospital could build a process where a nurse verified the orders against something identifyable about the person (not the chart) you could reduce the number of medication errors overnight.


There is nothing your suggested model that couldn't be be done with a health card with a barcode or magstripe on it. Or a fingerprint.


What good would a plastic card in your wallet do when you are an inpatient wearing a gown and nothing else?

I don't agree with the need, but Dave_A proposed that there was no reason to do it, I'm just throwing out reasons why someone would.


When you check in they scan your card and the hospital bracelet you get is a duplicate of that "one identity" code. The same is done in some hospitals with a fingerprint.
AshNH  [Member]
6/16/2009 7:44:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Yeah, I seriously doubt implants are in the works. Now, a health care ID card with an RFID chip summarizing your medical history? That's probably on the way.


My new Passport has a Smartcard chip in it. I have no idea what kind of information is stored on it.
CWO  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 7:49:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By AshNH:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Yeah, I seriously doubt implants are in the works. Now, a health care ID card with an RFID chip summarizing your medical history? That's probably on the way.


My new Passport has a Smartcard chip in it. I have no idea what kind of information is stored on it.



The RFID tag stores most of the information printed on the information page of the passport - including a low resolution photo and a pointer number to the State Department database. These are protected by a PKI key and encryption.
stormyk6  [Member]
6/16/2009 8:02:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
It seems that some envision every participant in the new nationalized health care system will be required to be radiochipped (like a dog) to allow identification and synchronization of medical records. Is this really going to happen?

No...

There's no reason...

The 'people-tracking' paranoids always come up with all of these elaborate schemes to explain HOW people will be required to get 'tracking devices' implanted, but cannot EVER explain what benefit there would be to the HUGE expense of having everyone 'chipped', or how the government would set up the required infastructure...

They will use Social Security Numbers to track medical records, just like the military does now....

Synchronization of medical records is a good idea in the PRIVATE health system, BTW... It does not have to be a 'National Health Care' sort of thing (and indeed, is one of the very common proposals from OPPONENTS of national health care, as a way to reduce costs).....



Thanks Slave_A !! I feel better now!
AeroE  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 8:13:29 AM EST
One step at a time.

The frogs aren't yet boiling. Some are noticing the temp rise, but aren't concerned, the rest are grooving in the nice comfy warmth provided by the nanny state and don't understand the implication.

AlvinYork  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 9:14:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By davis9588:
Originally Posted By Maynard:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Is this really going to happen?

It's not going to happen to me.




this.


This, and it's not going to happen to any of mine. Just as my 15 year old is not going to VOLUNTEER for the Obama Youth.
AlvinYork  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 9:16:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By AeroE:
One step at a time.

The frogs aren't yet boiling. Some are noticing the temp rise, but aren't concerned, the rest are grooving in the nice comfy warmth provided by the nanny state and don't understand the implication.



Now this is truly the time for CHANGE. I hope we can get others to join.
Phil_A_Steen  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 4:03:51 PM EST
this is from Microsoft's website for uses of RFID chips:

"Tracking patients—both for the purposes of redundant identification prior to the administration of medications or surgery and for protecting infants, Alzheimer's patients, and others with special vulnerabilities"

http://www.microsoft.com/industry/healthcare/providers/businessvalue/housecalls/rfid.mspx
BangStick1  [Member]
6/16/2009 4:09:02 PM EST
No they are not going to tag you for medical purposes. They are going to tag you so geographic location purposes.


I read somewhere that the EU passed a law to start tagging newborns starting this year. Not sure if it's real or not.
greatwhite  [Team Member]
6/16/2009 4:11:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By stormyk6:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
It seems that some envision every participant in the new nationalized health care system will be required to be radiochipped (like a dog) to allow identification and synchronization of medical records. Is this really going to happen?

No...

There's no reason...

The 'people-tracking' paranoids always come up with all of these elaborate schemes to explain HOW people will be required to get 'tracking devices' implanted, but cannot EVER explain what benefit there would be to the HUGE expense of having everyone 'chipped', or how the government would set up the required infastructure...

They will use Social Security Numbers to track medical records, just like the military does now....

Synchronization of medical records is a good idea in the PRIVATE health system, BTW... It does not have to be a 'National Health Care' sort of thing (and indeed, is one of the very common proposals from OPPONENTS of national health care, as a way to reduce costs).....



Thanks Slave_A !! I feel better now!


Be really carefull saying that. A member got kicked out for saying that. His posts are annoying to read sometimes, but you should refrain from personal comments.
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