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 What's a good .30 caliber short barrel bolt action bear gun?
duckdawg  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:14:03 AM
I have a buddy who is headed way up north (Canadian boonies) and needs a short barreled bolt action bear rifle, preferaby in .30-06. He want's .30-06 because of probable ammo availability. I thought .300 mag would also be available but I'm not sure.

Any hive mind recommendations?
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krpind  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:15:37 AM
Get a Remington or Savage and have a 'smith cut and crown the barrel.
1IV  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:16:16 AM
Lever action 45-70.



Sory I knew you asked for a bolt....

krpind  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:23:09 AM

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Lever action 45-70.


I have one and it is made just for bear guides I have seen one black shot by it and it flatted the bear's ass.


It would be my first choice.....but wasnt an option.
Warhawk  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:25:07 AM
Remington 673 in .308 or .300 SAUM ... or ... .350 Rem Mag
Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:25:37 AM
Short barrels are a waste in 30-06. I would get a .338 Federal and have it chopped.
Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:26:52 AM

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Lever action 45-70.


I have one and it is made just for bear guides I have seen one black shot by it and it flatted the bear's ass.


It would be my first choice.....but wasnt an option.


I've flattened a big blackies ass with .308 caliber ball ammunition from a 17.7 inch barrel. Not my first choice either. This guy didnt even have time to react.
smokycity  [Member]
11/13/2006 12:28:08 AM
Spanish FR-8 in .308
duckdawg  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:32:25 AM

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Short barrels are a waste in 30-06. I would get a .338 Federal and have it chopped.


The .30-06 stipulation was based on ammo availability. If you are trudging through the canadian outback, the corner store isn't likely to have .300 WSSM but will no doubt have .30-06.

Let's rephrase the question: What's the best short barrel bear gun based on common ammo availability in the Canadian boonies?
THellURider  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:32:58 AM
.375 H&H baby. Thems are big ass bears up there...

It's not like you shoot a whole lot up there. I don't understand whats so bad about picking the right caliber and rifle for the job and then getting a hold of a couple of boxes of ammo for it. That will last you a while. I would DEFINETLY go bigger than .30-06.

My $0.02.

I have a .45-70 Lever Gun I would use, or I would throw a Blaser R93 in the plane. Packable, lightweight, quick repeat, very very accurate and you can have you choice of calibers and change them out at will. He could get a .30-06 barrel and a "bear" caliber barrel and it would do everything he needed. When in bear country, throw that barrel on there...

1IV  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:38:29 AM
I also own a cut down 7mm mag Savage 110 here it is.



It is a thumper BIG Time! And it kept its accuracy.

I got it for $225, and hated the 22 inch broomstick.

This is the gun I used at 300m on a 12inch plate of steel, the 308, and 223 bounced off , IT went right on thu....... I was like Boom! (Hmmmm that was a funny sounding ring...)Boom! (That just sounds odd...... Lets see what mr spotting scope says...... Aww jeez.......)
Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:42:42 AM

Originally Posted By duckdawg:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Short barrels are a waste in 30-06. I would get a .338 Federal and have it chopped.


The .30-06 stipulation was based on ammo availability. If you are trudging through the canadian outback, the corner store isn't likely to have .300 WSSM but will no doubt have .30-06.

Let's rephrase the question: What's the best short barrel bear gun based on common ammo availability in the Canadian boonies?


Ah. In that case I would use a heavy bullet, like a 200gr one. Factory barrels shorter than 20" are going to be hard to find.
Alaskacajun  [Member]
11/13/2006 12:53:10 AM
I have a Sako with a 23" barrel originally chambered in .375 H&H but rechambered in .375 Wtby Mag. When I bought it I could have swore it was a 20" barrel until I measured it. I have hunted with a 26" bbl .300 Wtby mag for years and it's a pain in the ass to hual up and down the mountains............ I like the Sako and can't wait to thump a bears ass this spring!

30/06 is an acceptable minimum in my book for black bear. If your friend is hunting Griz or the big browns he may want to go with a magnum. As far as availability of the 30/06 in a village in Canada is concerned I think you would be more likely to find .223 or .22 or 30/30 than a 30/06 out there! IMHO...

- Clint
AZ-K9  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:54:04 AM
They should have 308 up there. He needs a Rem Model 7 in it. Stainless w composite stock...
duckdawg  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 12:54:18 AM

Originally Posted By 1IV:


Damn, I sure like your sig!
1IV  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 1:44:32 AM
DoubleARon  [Member]
11/13/2006 1:57:08 AM
I think a bear deserves something bigger than a .30 cal.
CSW4  [Member]
11/13/2006 3:26:26 AM

Originally Posted By duckdawg:
I have a buddy who is headed way up north (Canadian boonies) and needs a short barreled bolt action bear rifle, preferaby in .30-06. He want's .30-06 because of probable ammo availability. I thought .300 mag would also be available but I'm not sure.

Any hive mind recommendations?



I second the Marlin 1895 .45-70 recommendation. No modifications necessary. Plenty of stopping power. If you can't hit your mark w/ the first two shots, then I guess it won't really matter if you have 3 cartridges or 300.
ronmann  [Member]
11/13/2006 3:32:45 AM
ive read where it has taken multiple hits from a .375 to take a brownie down.he should probably get a .416
Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 3:40:22 AM
Why can't he keep ammunition with him? Sounds like he has a plane. That makes it easy. Keep ammo with the gun. Keep ammo at home. Another box in the car. More in the plane. Some in the backpack, etc.

I took 80 rounds of .375 into the boonies with me last time.
muddydog  [Member]
11/13/2006 9:21:24 AM
there are plenty of lightweight/youth models out there in 308 and 30-06 which would be perfect without the expense of having a smith cutdown the barrel.

they should come with a 18 inch barrel.

a remington 7600 carbine comes to mind..

a pump..carbine would rock.
azsavage  [Member]
11/13/2006 9:31:59 AM
Another Vote for 45-70 - best tool for the job. If you must have a 30-06 there are too many to list - pick one - Savage, Remington, Tikka, Sako - just not Ruger.
whoanelly  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 9:37:28 AM
M63 Tanker Mauser from Mitchells Mausers
burf151  [Member]
11/13/2006 10:44:04 AM
I have a Ruger 77 Frontier in .308. Very short and handy, and has the opton of mounting a scout type scope.
Johninaustin  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 10:57:30 AM
Having hunted in Canada and having come across bears, your friend is going to need a little something bigger than 30/06. Hunting bears is not the same as DEFENDING against bears. I'd consider 300 Win mag with the heaviest bullet possible as a MINIMUM. 45/70 is a good choice, (Navy Arms makes a bolt gun on an Enfield action) but most folks use a pump shotgun with slugs.

The most common calibers you are going to come across in the stores are 30/06, 7mm Mag, .308, .444mag, 45/70, and .303 Brit, but for Pete's sake, how many bears is he going to shoot? Three boxes is more than enough.

Swindle1984  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 11:01:14 AM
I'm not suggesting it, but I wonder how the Steyr-Mannlicher M1895 would perform against bear. That's a pretty stout cartridge, the carbine is fairly compact, the rifle itself is dirt cheap, and while some complain that the straight-pull bolt action is tight (probably in comparison to the Swiss K31), it has pretty solid reliability. The only real issue I can think of is that the last time they produced ammo was in the 1940's, so it's all corrosive and might not always go bang when you squeeze the trigger. That last part sort of increases the pucker factor when you consider bears. Still, I guess you could load your own cartridges somehow.
SHIVAN  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 11:01:52 AM

Originally Posted By duckdawg:
Let's rephrase the question: What's the best short barrel bear gun based on common ammo availability in the Canadian boonies?


I would make my firearms choice based on better performance vs. availability. You can carry ammo on your belt (20rds), ammo in your pack 100-200rds, ammo on the rifle (3-5rds in mag/6++rds on the stock), and have some ammo stashed in a friend's pack (20rds).

At the end of the day, I would choose a better bear stopper than 30-06 if this were to be my primary protection.

Something like a 300WSM, 325WSM, 300WinMag, 45-70, 450 Marlin, etc....
Bubbatheredneck  [Member]
11/13/2006 11:09:14 AM
Bear defense or bear hunting? Big difference as others have said. Bear defense often involves momma griz, a griz on a kill or a suprised griz. Blackies usually not that big a threat. And no matter what you have then, bigger would be better.

So, for bear defense, go big, and 30 cal aint it.

Minimum would be a 338, but 375 would be better.

Pick one and have a smith shorten it.
FatMan  [Member]
11/13/2006 11:20:16 AM
I think that choosing a rifle based on "what is commonly available" is a mistake. If he stumbles into an outfitter in the boonies, and has to take what is available, who's to say that the ammo he gets is ideal for the rifle at hand? I am basing this on the assumption that the rifle, as most do, will shoot one brand/profile/weight round better than others.

If he wants to be "loaded for bear" he's better off with the 45/70 lever action proposed earlier in the thread. He can reasonably carry enough pre-selected ideal ammo (say, 100 rounds?) with him. Unless there's a "bear invasion" he's not likely to run out. If he splits up the ammo among different packs, he's not going to lose it all if a pack is lost.

Your buddy needs to re-think the mission parameters and priorities.
mike103  [Team Member]
11/13/2006 11:44:40 AM
Remington 7600 pump or 750 auto in 18" carbine. MIKE.
Paveway_  [Member]
11/13/2006 11:48:55 AM
If he is concerned about ammo availability, 303.

Getting on the really small side for bear tho.
trg42  [Member]
11/13/2006 4:53:34 PM

I live in Canda, hunt in the boonies and have carried all sorts of rifles out in the bush

If your buddy is concerned about small compact and short barreled the best by FAR is a Marlin Guide in 45/70 ( lots of ammo available no matter where you are here )

Take this guide gun an put Ashley ghost rings on it.

300 win mag is fine for all but the biggest bears but now you are needing a long barrel to get the most and this is nowhere near as compact as the guide gun

A 300 win mag and even a 7mm is fine with the right bullets ( Nosler Partitions, Swift A-Frame, Barnes etc )

i guess a 308 or a 30-06 would be better than a pellet gun but this really is getting light . If his only reason for this is ammo availability rest assure that even in small towns you will find 300 Win mag, 7mm Rem mag.


nat103  [Member]
11/13/2006 5:15:33 PM


Here's an excellent read on the subject, with tables included.

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

duckdawg  [Team Member]
11/15/2006 12:36:59 AM
Ain't this site the greatest in the universe? Thanks for all the informative replies.
pogo  [Member]
11/15/2006 2:07:31 AM
How about a 303 Savage? Look at the bear this guy bagged!



I remembered this pic in a barber shop when I was a little kid. I found it displayed somewhere else a couple years ago and had to make a copy.

IIRC, it was taken on Afognak Island next to Kodiak in 1958.
1IV  [Team Member]
11/15/2006 2:31:19 AM


8mm I am cutting down to 16 inches, still need the front site.
Ripak  [Member]
11/15/2006 4:41:10 AM

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Lever action 45-70.

img224.imageshack.us/img224/1686/shortywy6.jpg

Sory I knew you asked for a bolt....



I have a Co-Pilot in 45-70 made by Jim West of Wild West Gun's (Thats in Alaska Folks) It looks like the one in the quoted pic.

If you are not hunting Bears(long range) this is what you want as a camp Rifle.

I have never felt under gunned while out in the Wilds of Alaska with my Co-Pilot.
A 45-70 is a Big Heavy Round that will put the thump on a brownie.
30 cal is not what you want as a camp (Bear)gun.

I would be willing to guess that 45-70 could be found in the out of the way places in Canada.

Ripak
The Ak = Alaska
Taipan01  [Team Member]
11/15/2006 6:04:31 AM
First of all, enjoy it, it'll be great.
For short length, powerful, quick sighting, fast action (short) bolts, I'm partial to Remingtons 673 guide guns. I've got the 308 & 350 rem mag for 30 cal. Of the 2, I'd take the 350 with about a hundred rounds split up here and there. Also remingtons 700 line is pretty extensive in caliber, stock and barrel (weather conditions) selection. Bolts are great for comfortable hunting, long shots, tree stands, fields, whatever, but to be honest about it, I would prefer my 1895 Marlin in 45/70 and some really heavy rounds over the bolts for deep woods and esp. if I were to camp out in those woods. If nothing else, it is a lot faster for follow up shots. I'm not sure about canadian laws anymore but a nice side arm is not a bad idea, .44mag minimum. Also, if possible, I'd take along my 870 pump with the short rifled barrel as a camp gun.
DaveS  [Member]
11/15/2006 6:24:05 AM
.458 SOCOM

If you ever have to use it... it will never feel "heavy" again.

It has a bolt... so, it's a bolt gun.
snarfbatt  [Member]
11/15/2006 8:05:45 AM
I for one would not be a fan of a bolt gun for bear. I know that shot placement is key but I like the idea of fast follow up shots when hunting something that can eat you.
VTHOKIESHOOTER  [Team Member]
11/15/2006 8:11:11 AM
.45-70 or .450 Marlin guide gun
.300SAUM in the Model 7
or the .350magnum in Remington model 600.

I would not trust an '06 to stop an agressive brown bear hell bent on eating me.
Stove_Pipe  [Team Member]
11/15/2006 8:17:37 AM
How about an M44? 5 shots of 7.62X54R plus folding pike bayonet?
THellURider  [Team Member]
11/15/2006 10:55:12 AM

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
How about an M44? 5 shots of 7.62X54R plus folding pike bayonet?


That would be like pissing in the bear's general direction...

Also, I'm a little confused by those of you that say 303 would be the most common round up there. Do you all live in a different century than I do?
Predator458  [Member]
11/15/2006 11:09:05 AM
My vote would also go with a Remmy pump gun cut down if 30-06 was a limiting factor. 220gr rn's should still get the job done quite well. Also, I think that rem 870 folding stocks or pistol grip stocks can be made to fit. I have seen them done I just dont remember the particulars.
UNIT6639  [Member]
11/15/2006 11:18:17 AM

Originally Posted By whoanelly:
M63 Tanker Mauser from Mitchells Mausers


Thats a nice rifle! I couldnt imagine how it would kick though, memories of my black and blue shoulder after a 70 round range trip with my full size Mauser dance in my head!
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