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 Is Gasoline w/ E85 Ethanol killing my lawnmower? HELP with my MOWER
quijanos  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 11:11:46 AM
E85 Ethanol or Corn fuel or whatever it is? the new additive to Gasoline......

Mower started acting up so took it in for work. They inform me the fuel is "contaminated"?
I recently bought the gas and used in my ATV and mower/trimmer.

Now I can't get the mower to run. It will start and run about 5 seconds and then dies.
After I pump the little bulb it'll will start for another 5 and then die again

Any help would be appreciated

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sharky30  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 11:15:51 AM
don't engines have to be specially designed for E85?
I kind of doubt a lawn mower is
Evil_Ed  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 11:16:48 AM

Originally Posted By quijanos:
E85 Ethanol or Corn fuel or whatever it is? the new additive to Gasoline......

Mower started acting up so took it in for work. They inform me the fuel is "contaminated"?
I recently bought the gas and used in my ATV and mower/trimmer.

Now I can't get the mower to run. It will start and run about 5 seconds and then dies.
After I pump the little bulb it'll will start for another 5 and then die again

Any help would be appreciated



Mine does the EXACT SAME THING.

The concensus here was that the carb needed to be rebuilt or something...I've run a bunch of Seafoam through the gas tank, which is supposed to clean it up..hasen't done jack shit.

I'm so frustrated I'm thinking of bringing it to our next shoot and seeing what buckshot will do to it.

But, I'd LOVE to hear if this additive crap is actually the problem or not.

Gloftoe  [Moderator]
8/31/2006 11:19:22 AM
E85 isn't a fuel additive. E85 is fuel that is 85% Ethanol. It _should_ be clearly marked on the pump, IIRC. Regular old gas from regular old gas stations should still work fine in your lawn mower.
quijanos  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 11:25:13 AM

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
E85 isn't a fuel additive. E85 is fuel that is 85% Ethanol. It _should_ be clearly marked on the pump, IIRC. Regular old gas from regular old gas stations should still work fine in your lawn mower.


It was regular old gas........I'm really unsure of the whole additive E85 thing.
I do know that the pump is marked somewhere but otherwise I'm pumping 87 octane (cheap/ non premium), in my mower.


Does anyone know if you have to specifically / dileberately purchase E85 or is it just an additive to all fuels now?
INI  [Member]
8/31/2006 11:27:39 AM
alot of boats are having difficulty with the transition. The ethanol holds alot more water, and can etch the inside of aluminum fuel tanks, stuff falls off and blocks the filters.
eswanson  [Member]
8/31/2006 11:28:41 AM
You have to deliberately buy it - it's not something that's added to gas. Most gas contains up to 10% ethanol (around here, anyway) and has for years. The E85 is, as posted above, 85% ethanol and is made for flex-fuel vehicles. If you accidentally bought some E85 and put it in your lawnmower, then I can see how that could mess it up but I would think flushing it out and using regular gas would fix it.

ARMED-PILOT  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 11:34:42 AM

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
E85 isn't a fuel additive. E85 is fuel that is 85% Ethanol. It _should_ be clearly marked on the pump, IIRC. Regular old gas from regular old gas stations should still work fine in your lawn mower.


It was regular old gas........I'm really unsure of the whole additive E85 thing.
I do know that the pump is marked somewhere but otherwise I'm pumping 87 octane (cheap/ non premium), in my mower.


Does anyone know if you have to specifically / dileberately purchase E85 or is it just an additive to all fuels now?


E85 should be a completely different purchase like 87 89 or 91 octane gas. most engines can run on E15 ethanol without modification, but E85 requires some sort of engine mods to run efficiently . This is based on what I have read and the way I understand it. Hope this helps
Torf  [Member]
8/31/2006 11:37:45 AM

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
E85 isn't a fuel additive. E85 is fuel that is 85% Ethanol. It _should_ be clearly marked on the pump, IIRC. Regular old gas from regular old gas stations should still work fine in your lawn mower.


It was regular old gas........I'm really unsure of the whole additive E85 thing.
I do know that the pump is marked somewhere but otherwise I'm pumping 87 octane (cheap/ non premium), in my mower.


Does anyone know if you have to specifically / dileberately purchase E85 or is it just an additive to all fuels now?


E85 is NOT AN ADDITIVE! It is a standalone fuel. The additive in E85 is Gasoline, and the main component of the fuel is Ethyl Alcohol.

Ethyl Alcohol is an additive in some regular gas blends, marked as Unleaded 85-93 octane, It is called E-10 or E-15. Sometimes the pumps are labelled "Fuel may contain up to 10%/15% ethanol".
Torf  [Member]
8/31/2006 11:40:09 AM
I have never had trouble running Ethanol blended regular unleaded fuel in any of my small engines. Bad gas does occasionally happen though, especially if the gas is old.
SWIRE  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 11:41:23 AM

Originally Posted By quijanos:

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
E85 isn't a fuel additive. E85 is fuel that is 85% Ethanol. It _should_ be clearly marked on the pump, IIRC. Regular old gas from regular old gas stations should still work fine in your lawn mower.


It was regular old gas........I'm really unsure of the whole additive E85 thing.
I do know that the pump is marked somewhere but otherwise I'm pumping 87 octane (cheap/ non premium), in my mower.


Does anyone know if you have to specifically / dileberately purchase E85 or is it just an additive to all fuels now?


E85 fuel is only in certain locations in certain states, mainly high corn producing states. You would have known if you actually bought E85 fuel. Plus E85 fuel will run fine in any engine, it is fuel after all. However it should only be run in flexfuel vehicles because the fuel will eat through the seals on regular vehicles. There are also reports, I'm not sure how true they are, that the E85 fuel corrodes the fuel system of regular vehicles.

As for "the new additive" you must be talking about the 10% ethanol that some states are using now to replace the other additives that were in the fuel. While this may be something new to your area this is nothing new. I can remember back at least 10 years of using 10% ethanol gas in all my vehicles. This is in a northern climate with lots of heating and cooling. Everything you hear about 10% ethanol feul pulling water out of the air, causing 50% less gas milage, or ruining the fuel system is complete nonsense. I don't know of a single a person who has had any problems with 10% ethanol fuel.
trwoprod  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 12:11:39 PM
You would have to go way out of your way to get E85. You are probably using 10% ethanol gasoline, and it should run without a hitch. The problem may be your carb. Amsoil makes a pretty good foaming carb cleaner. Try that and see if it helps. Get a bottle of Techron at a gas station and put a splash in the fuel tank to soak up some of the water (PRI-G is my preference, but Techron is easier to get). If that doesn't work, you need a new carb. It sounds like you have an air leak. Is anything loose? "Contaminated" gasoline is an old, old scam, and it makes me somewhat edgy right there. What does your spark plug look like?

I suggest to people that they use a splash of Techron or PRI-G or Red Line SI-1 in all of their small engine gas because all of those things stop any gumming up, clogging, and carbon deposits, and they do tend to soak up a lot of water in the fuel.
Pangea  [Member]
8/31/2006 12:17:17 PM
Sounds like your idle jet is clogged. Minor problem, quik fix.
A_Free_Man  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 3:44:54 PM
The reason E85 won't run in your lawnmower is because the carb is jetted (via needle valve) for gasoline. Ethanol, which is 85% of that crap you put in, burns at a 9:1 Air-Fuel ratio (by weight), while gasoline burns at 12:1. It is only 15% gasoline, so the air-fuel ratio would be much closer to 9:1 than 12:1.

Running a few seconds after being primed then quitting is a classic symptom of, guess what... running too way lean!

Some cars can tolerate this because the exaust is monitored by an oxygen sensor and the fuel injection is adjusted for the correct mix.

Also, alcohol based fuels absorb water from the air. Alcohol has a great affinity for water.

In short, your mower is not made for E85, it is made for gasoline. Real gasoline.
The_Reaper  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 3:51:03 PM

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Sounds like your idle jet is clogged. Minor problem, quik fix.


+1

If you don't want to mess with it yourself, any lawnmower mechanic can fix it for you.

Sub-MOA  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 3:52:21 PM
You can't get E85 in Texas. It isn't for sale.

Somebody is blowing smoke up your ass.
DzlBenz  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 4:01:39 PM

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
You can't get E85 in Texas. It isn't for sale.

Somebody is blowing smoke up your ass.
Incorrect.

Link


City Name Address
Austin H-E-B Now selling E85 in Austin Interstate 35 & Parmer
Buda H-E-B Interstate 35 ( frontage road -Buda)
Houston Kroger Store 8550 Highway 6
Irving Kroger Station Store selling E85 7505 North MacArthur Boulevard
Killeen H-E-B Trimmier Road off 190
Plano Kroger Station Store Now offering E85 Corner of Coit & 121
San Antonio CleanFuel USA 4023 Interstate N 35
Schertz H-E-B 17460 Interstate 35 North
Waco H-E-B Interstate-35 & 84
(Sorry about the shitty formatting.)
trwoprod  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 4:24:11 PM

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
You can't get E85 in Texas. It isn't for sale.

Somebody is blowing smoke up your ass.


It is for sale, but unless he is the victim of a whole series of unlikely events, there is almost no way that he stumbled into one of the dozen or so stations in Texas that carry e85. But all of the pumps in Houston now warn of the 10% ethanol content.

But I still don't think that this is his issue.
Sub-MOA  [Team Member]
8/31/2006 4:29:25 PM

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
You can't get E85 in Texas. It isn't for sale.

Somebody is blowing smoke up your ass.
Incorrect.

Link


City Name Address
Austin H-E-B Now selling E85 in Austin Interstate 35 & Parmer
Buda H-E-B Interstate 35 ( frontage road -Buda)
Houston Kroger Store 8550 Highway 6
Irving Kroger Station Store selling E85 7505 North MacArthur Boulevard
Killeen H-E-B Trimmier Road off 190
Plano Kroger Station Store Now offering E85 Corner of Coit & 121
San Antonio CleanFuel USA 4023 Interstate N 35
Schertz H-E-B 17460 Interstate 35 North
Waco H-E-B Interstate-35 & 84
(Sorry about the shitty formatting.)


I was not aware that it was sold here yet.

quijanos, did you happen to buy your gas at one of those 9 sataions?

If not, it ain't E85.
trwoprod  [Team Member]
9/1/2006 11:36:29 AM

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Sounds like your idle jet is clogged. Minor problem, quik fix.


+1

If you don't want to mess with it yourself, any lawnmower mechanic can fix it for you.



And if you make a point of adding a splash of Techron (good) or PRI-G (better) to the fuel when you buy it, you won't have that issue again.
mad-scientist  [Member]
9/1/2006 12:13:08 PM

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
The reason E85 won't run in your lawnmower is because the carb is jetted (via needle valve) for gasoline. Ethanol, which is 85% of that crap you put in, burns at a 9:1 Air-Fuel ratio (by weight), while gasoline burns at 12:1. It is only 15% gasoline, so the air-fuel ratio would be much closer to 9:1 than 12:1.

Running a few seconds after being primed then quitting is a classic symptom of, guess what... running too way lean!

Some cars can tolerate this because the exaust is monitored by an oxygen sensor and the fuel injection is adjusted for the correct mix.

Also, alcohol based fuels absorb water from the air. Alcohol has a great affinity for water.

In short, your mower is not made for E85, it is made for gasoline. Real gasoline.



This is all true. You wouldn't put diesel in it, would you? Don't put in E85. It is chemically very differerent. In addition to what he said, it produces a lot less energy, is more difficult to ignite with a spark plug, and is a powerful solvent that can dissolve some engine components.
GeorgiaBII  [Member]
9/1/2006 12:19:10 PM
Much ado about nothing.

Clean the water out of the bowl of your carb. Condensation is what killed you. I fix these things as a side job and 95% of the time it's water in the carb.
pv74  [Team Member]
9/1/2006 12:28:55 PM
No one has mentioned Gummout?

Go to the auto parts store...pick up a can of Gummout...spray in the carb...start the motor...spray more in the carb...Spray just enough..don't flood the motor with it so it stalls...this will flush the fuel varnish out of the carb.

(Don't use Gummout in your fuel injected car, it will eat the seals, this shit is just for carburated engines)

Take out spark plug...clean off electrodes with sand paper...gap with nail file.

If motor still does not run for than a few minutes..disassemble carb, clean with gummout. Also check to make sure gas tank is full.


Also, check airfilter...if dirty...replace paper element..if foam element...wash with detergent, let dry..then lightly saturate with motor oil.

If motor doesn't start...spray gummout or put gas in the spark plug hole.

If motor still doesn't start, remove plug, place plug wire on plug, hold against bare surface on engine block while pulling starter roap...check for spark.


I can ALWAYS get a lawnmower to start and STAY running...just a matter of persistance...A lawn mower engine is not like the motor on your ferrari. Just a matter of persistance to get it to work right.







Guardian  [Member]
9/1/2006 12:40:32 PM

Originally Posted By trwoprod:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Sounds like your idle jet is clogged. Minor problem, quik fix.


+1

If you don't want to mess with it yourself, any lawnmower mechanic can fix it for you.



And if you make a point of adding a splash of Techron (good) or PRI-G (better) to the fuel when you buy it, you won't have that issue again.


It is a clogged jet. Usually caused by sediment in the fuel. An additive win't do anything for it. Take the carb apart. unscrew the jet, and wipe it with a rag and blow it with compressed air. Unless you are filling up your take in a clean room, sediment will occasionally collect. No big deal.
A_Free_Man  [Team Member]
9/1/2006 2:30:59 PM
Also, you guys should not confuse E85 (85% Ethanol 15% gasoline) with "Gasohol" (90% gasoline 10% Ethanol).

Gasohol runs very near to 12:1 Air-fuel ratio and is a viable substitute for gasoline.

E85 is far different.
trwoprod  [Team Member]
9/1/2006 2:40:08 PM

Originally Posted By Guardian:

Originally Posted By trwoprod:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Sounds like your idle jet is clogged. Minor problem, quik fix.


+1

If you don't want to mess with it yourself, any lawnmower mechanic can fix it for you.



And if you make a point of adding a splash of Techron (good) or PRI-G (better) to the fuel when you buy it, you won't have that issue again.


It is a clogged jet. Usually caused by sediment in the fuel. An additive win't do anything for it. Take the carb apart. unscrew the jet, and wipe it with a rag and blow it with compressed air. Unless you are filling up your take in a clean room, sediment will occasionally collect. No big deal.


I disagree. In the Texas heat, a whole lot of stuff that settles out of gasoline and diesel and plugs things up. In my experience, adding PRI-G/D or Techron (or other things, like Power Clean) to gasoline and diesel will disolve many of the "solids" and make fuel filters (the good ones, with pressure differential monitors, that filter down to 2 microns) last almost twice as long with the same gasoline and diesel, delivered from the same trucks, the only difference being the additive. Furthermore, the lubricity additives and the reduced varnish on internal parts make it less likely that solids will "stick" to things as opposed to keep on moving. Now, if he has a piece of wood the size of my fingernail stock in his fuel line, that won't help, but that usually isn't the case. You can get sand in deisel on a regular basis, although it usually doesn't make it past the pump filter, but gasoline is usually cleaner.

Is there rust in the fuel tank?
JFP  [Member]
9/1/2006 4:20:38 PM

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Sounds like your idle jet is clogged. Minor problem, quik fix.

+1 I was wondering when someone wopuld get around to the original Q
daemon734  [Team Member]
9/1/2006 5:51:43 PM
i saw a kid put JP8 into a lawnmower and weedeater the other day. aside from the blue smoke, they ran great.
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