OT Trivia: First all jet air battle
This is just for giggles and grins since everything has been so serious today.
Who knows the date of the first all jet air battle, the two jet models involved, and which one won?
Obviously during the Korean war forget exact date. I know I've heard this before but I can't remember for sure so I will say F-86 vs MIG-15. F-86 wins.
Mig 15 is right. F86 not right. It was Korean war, 8 November 1950.
F-51's and F-80's vs. Mig 15 (Fagot) in Korea, November 1st 1950. Soviets claimed the first kill, the Americans claim it was Chinese AAA. Americans claim their first kill when an F-80 downed a MiG a few days later.
The above statement is correct...Soviet Fighter Pilots were manning the MiG's at this time in Korea. Chinese pilots were introduced shortly thereafter, but the Soviets were WW2 veterans and hence quite a bit more skilled. Some of us younguns don't remember the war since my parents weren't even of fighting age.
Also of interest for the F86 fans...
Edited cuz I can't read [:D]
sfoo,your article says that Lt. Khominich was a Soviet Mig-15 pilot who shot down an F80, not the other way around. I suppose it depends on who you believe, the Russians or the Americans. The American version agrees with the 8 Nov date, but who knows.
You mean their were Soviet pilots flying in Korea????? I'm shocked!!!! [:O]
F-51 is a piston engine Mustang.
uncle buck, read the article sfoo included in his post. On 1 November, the Migs first attacked some F51's and then later tangled with some F80's. The Russians claim a Mig shot down an F80, the Americans say it was AAA. The Americans claim that the first all jet air to air victory was an F80 over a Mig on 8 November.
The Mustang comment just threw me a bit. Since the question was about jet vs jet. I'm not breaking balls.
Was watching history channel and it comes out that the Migs were being flown by Russian pilots (as our pilots had always suspected) and not Korean or Chinese pilots.
yep there were Mustangs involved, but the Shooting Stars came in a few minutes later and tangled with the Fagots. Can't believe I'll get away with saying that [:D].
i would have bet my shorts that a me-262 had met a meteor in 1944 but after a lot of searching i have to agree 1950!
Another fact: the top scoring aces of the War were both Russian.
Yevgeny Pepelyaev 23 kills
Nick Sutyagin 23 kills
Meteors were used from late '44 to shoot down unmanned V-1 "Buzz Bombs". Both were powered by jet engines, so I'd put an asterisk next to the 8 November 1950 date.
Since a V1 is unmanned and can't shoot back, that is not air to air combat between pilots.
As for the ME262 and the Meteor, neither had the range to get to each other. Ain't that a hoot. Both side had jets but they couldn't reach other.
700PSS, your point is well taken, but would the propulsion unit on a V-1 be considered a jet or a rocket? Jet engines have turbines for compression, rockets don't. Not to draw too fine a line but the V-1's were unmanned. Perhaps both deserve asterisks.
The V-1 used a pulse jet for propulsion, rather like a ram jet, it uses no compressor. Air is forced into the combustion chamber by forward motion. I just wanted to throw a monkey wrench in the works! [;)]
Arock, The diff between jets & rockets is that jets burn air, rockets carry their own oxidizer, solid or liquid.