AR15.Com Archives
 5.45x39 AK Pistols, Why Stir The ATF Up?
FAIL-SAFE  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:08:57 AM EST

Don't link to that idiots website

It doesnt make any sense.
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walldj45  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:10:34 AM EST
Most all around screwed up gun shop ive seen.
The_Reaper  [Life Member]
3/6/2012 11:10:52 AM EST
Don't link to that idiots website

There are 5.56 and 7.62x39 pistols, so why not?
david_g17  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:11:58 AM EST
That's the guy in TN who kept walking around with an AK pistol to provoke the cops.
FAIL-SAFE  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:12:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:
Don't link to that idiots website


There are 5.56 and 7.62x39 pistols, so why not?


And what happened when the 7.62x39 pistols came about? Hmmmmm....


Blaculo  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:12:44 AM EST


Some gems from his site:

Se Habla Espanol, 4473 en Espanol

and where the pigs always pay more, because they should
Ballistoholic  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:13:46 AM EST


"and where the pigs always pay more, because they should"


I rost.
joker581  [Moderator]
3/6/2012 11:14:56 AM EST
Christ, I can't believe that fucking retard managed to get an FFL.
1911greg  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:15:23 AM EST
is that an actual gun shop or a joke?

4473 in spanish?
fla556guy  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:16:08 AM EST
Not sure what the problem is with a 5.45 pistol?

Can someone put some sort of legal position to show why this isn't legal?

NOT commenting on gun shop, that's been taken care of by others.
aimforthemedic  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:16:26 AM EST
That website is
ttushooter  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:16:34 AM EST
what a fucking retard.
FightingHellfish  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:18:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not sure what the problem is with a 5.45 pistol?

Can someone put some sort of legal position to show why this isn't legal?

NOT commenting on gun shop, that's been taken care of by others.


Because then the ATF could classify milsurp 5.45 as armor-piercing pistol ammo and ban it from import. An Olympic Arms pistol was the cause of steel-core surplus 7.62x39 being banned from import.
NDT3  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:19:27 AM EST
So if this stirs up the ATF what is the potential value of my 5.45 ammo fort in a few years?
Clutch1911  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:20:09 AM EST
ak pistols=ban on import of ak rounds....same deal....no more surplus.


Edit: clarified more two posts down....
wilNva  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:20:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By 1911greg:
is that an actual gun shop or a joke?

4473 in spanish?


Spanish 4473's are probally more common then you think. There are more registered hispanics in the US then blacks according to the 2010 census.
novaDAK  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:20:52 AM EST
These use the cheap 5.45x39 military surplus ammunition. The nice thing about most 5.45x39 is that it is steel core. Steel core ammo, even mild steel, is great for barrier penetration. Let's face it you need all the help you can get if you're using 5.45x39 with a 7.5" barrel. 5.45x39 easily passes through kevlar and does not need the steel to help it out.

Do they not realize that making one of these for the purpose of utilizing cheap surplus 5.45 is going to make the ATF reclassify 5.45 as handgun ammo and therefore ban the importation of it since its steel core?
Also, what kind of FFL advertises a handgun's ability to penetrate kevlar? Who are they marketing these to? Once again, their own words will be used against them when 5.45 steel core is banned from import.
shaggy  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:23:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By ttushooter:
what a fucking retard.



This. I think we've found the bottom of the bell curve.

david_g17  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:27:42 AM EST
In before we see the Brady Campaign on CSPAN reading off of this idiot's website in a speech before Congress.
joker581  [Moderator]
3/6/2012 11:29:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By novaDAK:
These use the cheap 5.45x39 military surplus ammunition. The nice thing about most 5.45x39 is that it is steel core. Steel core ammo, even mild steel, is great for barrier penetration. Let's face it you need all the help you can get if you're using 5.45x39 with a 7.5" barrel. 5.45x39 easily passes through kevlar and does not need the steel to help it out.

Do they not realize that making one of these for the purpose of utilizing cheap surplus 5.45 is going to make the ATF reclassify 5.45 as handgun ammo and therefore ban the importation of it since its steel core?
Also, what kind of FFL advertises a handgun's ability to penetrate kevlar? Who are they marketing these to? Once again, their own words will be used against them when 5.45 steel core is banned from import.
This guy's a known moron.

A year or two ago, he was posting about open carrying a Draco AK pistol in public parks. He had quite a few interesting threads about how he painted the muzzle nut orange so cops would think it was fake and questions about what kind of armor would stop police bullets.

40xb-shooter  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:30:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By novaDAK:
These use the cheap 5.45x39 military surplus ammunition. The nice thing about most 5.45x39 is that it is steel core. Steel core ammo, even mild steel, is great for barrier penetration. Let's face it you need all the help you can get if you're using 5.45x39 with a 7.5" barrel. 5.45x39 easily passes through kevlar and does not need the steel to help it out.

Do they not realize that making one of these for the purpose of utilizing cheap surplus 5.45 is going to make the ATF reclassify 5.45 as handgun ammo and therefore ban the importation of it since its steel core?
Also, what kind of FFL advertises a handgun's ability to penetrate kevlar? Who are they marketing these to? Once again, their own words will be used against them when 5.45 steel core is banned from import.


Well they are advertising that their 4473's are in Spanish too. That ought to be a clue.
fla556guy  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:30:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not sure what the problem is with a 5.45 pistol?

Can someone put some sort of legal position to show why this isn't legal?

NOT commenting on gun shop, that's been taken care of by others.


Because then the ATF could classify milsurp 5.45 as armor-piercing pistol ammo and ban it from import. An Olympic Arms pistol was the cause of steel-core surplus 7.62x39 being banned from import.


OH

Thanks
mongreltude  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:31:40 AM EST
i smell another black flag.
novaDAK  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:32:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By joker581:

Originally Posted By novaDAK:
These use the cheap 5.45x39 military surplus ammunition. The nice thing about most 5.45x39 is that it is steel core. Steel core ammo, even mild steel, is great for barrier penetration. Let's face it you need all the help you can get if you're using 5.45x39 with a 7.5" barrel. 5.45x39 easily passes through kevlar and does not need the steel to help it out.

Do they not realize that making one of these for the purpose of utilizing cheap surplus 5.45 is going to make the ATF reclassify 5.45 as handgun ammo and therefore ban the importation of it since its steel core?
Also, what kind of FFL advertises a handgun's ability to penetrate kevlar? Who are they marketing these to? Once again, their own words will be used against them when 5.45 steel core is banned from import.
This guy's a known moron.

A year or two ago, he was posting about open carrying a Draco AK pistol in public parks. He had quite a few interesting threads about how he painted the muzzle nut orange so cops would think it was fake and questions about what kind of armor would stop police bullets.


That's who this guy is? I remember when he was banned from this site after posting about buying AP ammo for his orange Draco (he started with just an orange muzzle nut but then painted the whole thing).

www-glock19-com  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:32:28 AM EST
hey $10 transfers GD should love um.
BushBoar  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:33:00 AM EST
Sent him an email. I'll post his response in the thread.
GreyHat  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:33:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By joker581:

Originally Posted By novaDAK:
These use the cheap 5.45x39 military surplus ammunition. The nice thing about most 5.45x39 is that it is steel core. Steel core ammo, even mild steel, is great for barrier penetration. Let's face it you need all the help you can get if you're using 5.45x39 with a 7.5" barrel. 5.45x39 easily passes through kevlar and does not need the steel to help it out.

Do they not realize that making one of these for the purpose of utilizing cheap surplus 5.45 is going to make the ATF reclassify 5.45 as handgun ammo and therefore ban the importation of it since its steel core?
Also, what kind of FFL advertises a handgun's ability to penetrate kevlar? Who are they marketing these to? Once again, their own words will be used against them when 5.45 steel core is banned from import.
This guy's a known moron.

A year or two ago, he was posting about open carrying a Draco AK pistol in public parks. He had quite a few interesting threads about how he painted the muzzle nut orange so cops would think it was fake and questions about what kind of armor would stop police bullets.



It's that guy? All my questions are answered.
dryroasted  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:35:19 AM EST
Check out this guys videos. Shooting 2 drakos
bullyforyou  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:37:04 AM EST



despite the fact that this guy is an ass, the real problem isn't with HIM. the problem is with the ATF.

our rediculous gun laws should be a reason for us to scold dealers and manufacturers, but rather motivation to get the law changed.



Forest  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:37:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By joker581:

Originally Posted By novaDAK:
These use the cheap 5.45x39 military surplus ammunition. The nice thing about most 5.45x39 is that it is steel core. Steel core ammo, even mild steel, is great for barrier penetration. Let's face it you need all the help you can get if you're using 5.45x39 with a 7.5" barrel. 5.45x39 easily passes through kevlar and does not need the steel to help it out.

Do they not realize that making one of these for the purpose of utilizing cheap surplus 5.45 is going to make the ATF reclassify 5.45 as handgun ammo and therefore ban the importation of it since its steel core?
Also, what kind of FFL advertises a handgun's ability to penetrate kevlar? Who are they marketing these to? Once again, their own words will be used against them when 5.45 steel core is banned from import.
This guy's a known moron.

A year or two ago, he was posting about open carrying a Draco AK pistol in public parks. He had quite a few interesting threads about how he painted the muzzle nut orange so cops would think it was fake and questions about what kind of armor would stop police bullets.



They gave that guy a FFL?
sparty  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:41:28 AM EST
wow. someone needs to let him know why 5.45 is so cheap compared to 7.62. Its because of the stupid import ban caused by pistol versions of 7.62 ak's.
MyakkaVice  [Member]
3/6/2012 11:54:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By sparty:
wow. someone needs to let him know why 5.45 is so cheap compared to 7.62. Its because of the stupid import ban caused by pistol versions of 7.62 ak's.


I dont think he cares, he sounds like he is "strange" (just my opinion)

This will not end well...

felrom  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:55:28 AM EST
After reading through some his section of lawsuits, I don't think there is any problem with him that isn't the direct result of our asinine gun laws. Get rid of the stupid laws and this guy wouldn't stand out at all.
Cnacki77  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 11:56:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By david_g17:
That's the guy in TN who kept walking around with an AK pistol to provoke the cops.

That guy again....
KfS  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:04:13 PM EST
Shit that's one of the ugliest sites I've seen in years. It's like GeoCities all over again.
SGL_Shooter  [Member]
3/6/2012 12:14:07 PM EST
graysonp  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:17:16 PM EST
Every time I see a thread about some lunatic in TN, I always open it expecting the latest from Kwikrnu, and I've yet to be disappointed.

I can't believe he hasn't done something to get himself shot or thrown in jail yet. I'm sure he'll try to sue anyone who posts negatively about him in this thread as well....
BatchelorGroda  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:17:29 PM EST
Great, another way to get another steel -core caliber banned.

Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not sure what the problem is with a 5.45 pistol?

Can someone put some sort of legal position to show why this isn't legal?

NOT commenting on gun shop, that's been taken care of by others.


Once a "new" pistol comes onto market that uses pretty much a previously "rifle only" cartridge, that cartridge is deemed to NOW be a "pistol cartridge" by the ATF, and steel core in that caliber becomes illegal.

To answer your question...the steel core ammo is currently legal, but if this jackass makes a pistol that shoots it, it will become illegal.
40xb-shooter  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:30:57 PM EST
I find it hard to believe that no one has made a 5.45 pistol yet.
wilNva  [Member]
3/6/2012 12:35:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By 40xb-shooter:
I find it hard to believe that no one has made a 5.45 pistol yet.


I'm sure they've been made, just not stuck out there publicy for the ATF to see.
ForFreedomWeFight  [Member]
3/6/2012 12:40:46 PM EST
Am I the only person that thinks the definition of pistol vs rifle ammo is unconstitutionally vague?
joker581  [Moderator]
3/6/2012 12:40:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By 40xb-shooter:
I find it hard to believe that no one has made a 5.45 pistol yet.


I'm sure someone has. A few individual examples are probably not enough to get them to declare 5.45 to be a pistol caliber, but an attempt at mass production is, especially when the assclown that's making them is touting the ability to penetrate armor as a desireable feature.
40xb-shooter  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:44:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By joker581:

Originally Posted By 40xb-shooter:
I find it hard to believe that no one has made a 5.45 pistol yet.


I'm sure someone has. A few individual examples are probably not enough to get them to declare 5.45 to be a pistol caliber, but an attempt at mass production is, especially when the assclown that's making them is touting the ability to penetrate armor as a desireable feature.


Good point.
7n6  [Member]
3/6/2012 12:46:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not sure what the problem is with a 5.45 pistol?

Can someone put some sort of legal position to show why this isn't legal?

NOT commenting on gun shop, that's been taken care of by others.


Because then the ATF could classify milsurp 5.45 as armor-piercing pistol ammo and ban it from import. An Olympic Arms pistol was the cause of steel-core surplus 7.62x39 being banned from import.


Can't, it's less than .22 cal per BATFE regs. Besides all the imported 5.45 is not true armor piercing.
markfall  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:49:01 PM EST
Did I just time travel? That site is a trip.
Forest  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:49:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
. Besides all the imported 5.45 is not true armor piercing.


Neither was mild steel core 7.62x39, didn't stop them from banning that.
Sleeper396  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:54:55 PM EST
Someone contact ANON and shut this motherfucker down.
dalesimpson  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 12:59:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Not sure what the problem is with a 5.45 pistol?

Can someone put some sort of legal position to show why this isn't legal?

NOT commenting on gun shop, that's been taken care of by others.


Because then the ATF could classify milsurp 5.45 as armor-piercing pistol ammo and ban it from import. An Olympic Arms pistol was the cause of steel-core surplus 7.62x39 being banned from import.


Can't, it's less than .22 cal per BATFE regs. Besides all the imported 5.45 is not true armor piercing.


Do you not realize the ATF makes their own rules and can change them at will?
7n6  [Member]
3/6/2012 1:00:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By 7n6:
. Besides all the imported 5.45 is not true armor piercing.


Neither was mild steel core 7.62x39, didn't stop them from banning that.


You don't get it. It has to be .22 caliber in diameter or larger.
raysheen  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 1:02:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By 7n6:
. Besides all the imported 5.45 is not true armor piercing.


Neither was mild steel core 7.62x39, didn't stop them from banning that.


You don't get it. It has to be .22 caliber in diameter or larger.


5.45 uses a .221 diameter bullet does it not?
FAIL-SAFE  [Team Member]
3/6/2012 1:06:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By 7n6:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By 7n6:
. Besides all the imported 5.45 is not true armor piercing.


Neither was mild steel core 7.62x39, didn't stop them from banning that.


You don't get it. It has to be .22 caliber in diameter or larger.


No, it doesnt.

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