AR15.Com Archives
 After giving to the wounded warrior project -- I find myself disgusted.
destaccado  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:28:18 AM
According to Charity Navigator they are 2/4 stars with only 61% of revenue actually going to programs and the executives having salaries ranging from 150-200k –– sure looks to me like their main concern isn't "wounded warriors."

It seems you're much better off just driving to the local VA hospital and visiting a disabled veteran for a holiday than giving these crooks your money –– that's my plan next time I decide to donate...

Thanks for the stupid calendar in the mail though –– I definitely wanted my money going towards that instead of the people I was supposed to be supporting...
ISED8U  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:31:05 AM
Disposable Heroes Project

The head of this not for profit is a US Marine. None of the board members pay themselves....NOT A SINGLE DIME. 100% of the funds collected go to the troops and/or their families. Good men doing the right thing, for the right reason, and doing it the right way.
packinheavy  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:31:58 AM
I didn't know the percentage was that low. It is still better than a lot of charities, but they could do much better. Sounds like they need to refocus on what they are supposedly doing. I am still glad they are helping though.
iiibdsiil  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:33:57 AM
It does cost money to run a business.
Oliver  [Member]
9/10/2011 10:37:33 AM
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
It does cost money to run a business.


a charity is not a business.
fla556guy  [Member]
9/10/2011 10:37:33 AM
Originally Posted By ISED8U:
Disposable Heroes Project

The head of this not for profit is a US Marine. None of the board members pay themselves....NOT A SINGLE DIME. 100% of the funds collected go to the troops and/or their families. Good men doing the right thing, for the right reason, and doing it the right way.


That's more like it. I can't stand not for profit businesses paying their heads large salaries. If you want to be paid, I can understand living expenses and such, but reducing the outgoing $$ to %61 is just wrong.
Reservist  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:37:42 AM
All charities are like that man, one of the only reasons I don't normally give to charities. If you want to do good as others have said you could go down to the VA and talk to people and ask them how they are doing and give it to someone who really deserves it.

I will tell you this though I thought I would be a good guy one day and give some local hobos food. They didn't want any fucking food and they got pissed at me that I wouldn't give them money instead.
destaccado  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:38:28 AM
Originally Posted By Oliver:
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
It does cost money to run a business.


a charity is not a business.


Sadly it looks like in the case of WWP - it is.
fla556guy  [Member]
9/10/2011 10:38:33 AM
Originally Posted By Oliver:
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
It does cost money to run a business.


a charity is not a business.


Yup, a charity is not in the business of producing anything, and anyone employed at one is employed out of necessity for the mission, not just to be employed.
gopeterson  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:41:02 AM
Originally Posted By Reservist:

I will tell you this though I thought I would be a good guy one day and give some local hobos food. They didn't want any fucking food and they got pissed at me that I wouldn't give them money instead.


I tried that. But they just wanted shotguns.
FightingHellfish  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:42:51 AM
Wounded Warrior Project has always rated low by those metrics. I don't mind them having paid employees, but $150K - $200K is ridiculous for a charity.
Oliver  [Member]
9/10/2011 10:43:28 AM
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Originally Posted By Oliver:
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
It does cost money to run a business.


a charity is not a business.


Yup, a charity is not in the business of producing anything, and anyone employed at one is employed out of necessity for the mission, not just to be employed.


correct, even if an organization is large and needs a professional CEO, COO etc these positions should be filled by those wishing to give back to a Country that made it possible for them to achieve so much.
GBinSC  [Member]
9/10/2011 10:44:15 AM
Check out M1's for Vets. No salaries, no BS.
coldair  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:45:16 AM
whatever you do never look at what those big music charities do, most give less then 10% to their intended recipients
CRsmoker250  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:49:31 AM
We contribute to this every year, during the year

Armed Services YMCA
Bohr_Adam  [Life Member]
9/10/2011 10:50:10 AM
Originally Posted By destaccado:
Originally Posted By Oliver:
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
It does cost money to run a business.


a charity is not a business.


Sadly it looks like in the case of WWP - it is.


All charities are essentially businesses - they just don't pursue extra profits, and instead that money goes to whatever cause they support.

The idea that the people running them should live like monks is popular, but unreasonable. If you want something run efficiently, properly, and fairly, you need competent, full-time staff working there. That metric says nothing without more context.
speedracer422  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:52:00 AM
I am familiar w/ several NPOs.
They are paying people those salaries (usually) because under their guidance they were able to raise a lot more cash and do a lot more productive things than before...
...it's a kinda catch 22.

Pay for talent and get more done (in this case benefiting soldiers), but suffer some public ridicule, or
Don't pay for talent, and get less done

I'm not saying it's always that black and white, but depending on the size of the NPO, $150k for a top position doesn't seem too outrageous.



Speed
learath  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:53:32 AM
61% is actually not bad at all for most charities. YMMV
staringback05  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:55:53 AM
screw paying money...i went and volunteered for this last year felt awesome doing it knowing the guy got a nice house out of it

http://www.homesforourtroops.org/site/PageServer


ETA house i helped build

http://www.homesforourtroops.org/site/PageServer?pagename=RonellBradley
ssgt who lost both his legs and other injuries to an ied
FreeBear  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 10:57:54 AM
Originally Posted By coldair:

whatever you do never look at what those big music charities do, most give less then 10% to their intended recipients




And don't, DON'T look at the American Red Cross.....either. Unless you want your head to explode.

SecretKeeper  [Member]
9/10/2011 10:59:24 AM
Originally Posted By speedracer422:
I am familiar w/ several NPOs.
They are paying people those salaries (usually) because under their guidance they were able to raise a lot more cash and do a lot more productive things than before...
...it's a kinda catch 22.

Pay for talent and get more done (in this case benefiting soldiers), but suffer some public ridicule, or
Don't pay for talent, and get less done

I'm not saying it's always that black and white, but depending on the size of the NPO, $150k for a top position doesn't seem too outrageous.



Speed


I did my research and this is what I found too.
It does take experience & talent to run any organization and those who have these qualities come w/ a cost.
stangboy555  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:00:31 AM
One of the reasons I've always tried to give to smaller charities.

I don't really see any problems with what WWP is doing, as long as they keep it out in the open, but I personally prefer more of my donation go to the intended recipient.

The United Way actually has a payroll deduction program at my company, I told them to get fucked.
_DR  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:03:58 AM
Originally Posted By destaccado:
According to Charity Navigator they are 2/4 stars with only 61% of revenue actually going to programs and the executives having salaries ranging from 150-200k –– sure looks to me like their main concern isn't "wounded warriors."

It seems you're much better off just driving to the local VA hospital and visiting a disabled veteran for a holiday than giving these crooks your money –– that's my plan next time I decide to donate...

Thanks for the stupid calendar in the mail though –– I definitely wanted my money going towards that instead of the people I was supposed to be supporting...


That's why I check the numbers before giving to any charity, regardless of what they are called. Many wont even send you the information, like those police charities that call on the phone. I will not give to any charity that won't show me where their money goes, not a dime.

I have participated in plans where we send needed item to troops through our church, etc. At least in most cases you know they will get them.
Bohr_Adam  [Life Member]
9/10/2011 11:04:11 AM
Originally Posted By speedracer422:
I am familiar w/ several NPOs.
They are paying people those salaries (usually) because under their guidance they were able to raise a lot more cash and do a lot more productive things than before...
...it's a kinda catch 22.

Pay for talent and get more done (in this case benefiting soldiers), but suffer some public ridicule, or
Don't pay for talent, and get less done

I'm not saying it's always that black and white, but depending on the size of the NPO, $150k for a top position doesn't seem too outrageous.



Speed


... especially when you consider they are based in DC. Try hiring a competent attorney or accountant for less in DC. You could, I suppose, but you might also watch your charities reputation and performance collapse. Everybody has heard of WWP, and probably every wounded veteran has had contact with them and access to what they offer. Compare that to, say "M1s for veterans" mentioned above.
RonnieJamesDioFan  [Member]
9/10/2011 11:04:26 AM
So the key to this scam is to start a charitable cause, collect the money, kick most of it back as overhead expenses, and then get on TV to talk about al the good I've done and guilt people into donating more to my cause?

I'm in.
TheRocketmac  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:05:19 AM
I gave to the WWP as part of the Aimless fiasco and don't regret doing so. However, the charity I choose to give more to is Fisher House.
Yes, Coker makes a bit a change, but I don't mind the CEO of these larger charities making less than they would in an enterprise environment.

To say that running these organizations is easy, would be a gross understatement. Most have to employ multiple accountants/attorneys just to make sure they don't neglect one of the very many IRS and .Gov guidelines. If the board of regents/directors for each charity choose to award that level of salary while insuring their mission statement isn't impacted, so be it.

Would I like to see more go to their cause? Yes, but without a strong/skilled hand at the tiller, how many of these organizations would be around still?
Bohr_Adam  [Life Member]
9/10/2011 11:06:24 AM
Their CPO works in NYC.

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/mission/executive-staff/jeremy-chwat.aspx

Is he supposed to live with a roommate?
TheRocketmac  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:06:59 AM
Originally Posted By RonnieJamesDioFan:
So the key to this scam is to start a charitable cause, collect the money, kick most of it back as overhead expenses, and then get on TV to talk about al the good I've done and guilt people into donating more to my cause?

I'm in.


While you're at it, enjoy the massive probe the IRS will give you...
Madcap72  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:08:09 AM

Originally Posted By SecretKeeper:
Originally Posted By speedracer422:
I am familiar w/ several NPOs.
They are paying people those salaries (usually) because under their guidance they were able to raise a lot more cash and do a lot more productive things than before...
...it's a kinda catch 22.

Pay for talent and get more done (in this case benefiting soldiers), but suffer some public ridicule, or
Don't pay for talent, and get less done

I'm not saying it's always that black and white, but depending on the size of the NPO, $150k for a top position doesn't seem too outrageous.



Speed


I did my research and this is what I found too.
It does take experience & talent to run any organization and those who have these qualities come w/ a cost.

Heaven forbid people actually take the time to understand that the CEO getting 150 k a year, is probably negotiating for millions of dollars coming in every year or more.
Madcap72  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:09:25 AM

Originally Posted By RonnieJamesDioFan:
So the key to this scam is to start a charitable cause, collect the money, kick most of it back as overhead expenses, and then get on TV to talk about al the good I've done and guilt people into donating more to my cause?

I'm in.

Works better for churches.
Bohr_Adam  [Life Member]
9/10/2011 11:09:52 AM
Originally Posted By RonnieJamesDioFan:
So the key to this scam is to start a charitable cause, collect the money, kick most of it back as overhead expenses, and then get on TV to talk about al the good I've done and guilt people into donating more to my cause?

I'm in.


It's pretty much Larry Pratt's business model. You just have to add spending most of you time and energy bashing the more mainstream organizations.
resq2106  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:11:14 AM

Originally Posted By FreeBear:
Originally Posted By coldair:

whatever you do never look at what those big music charities do, most give less then 10% to their intended recipients




And don't, DON'T look at the American Red Cross.....either. Unless you want your head to explode.


I decided the Red Cross could kiss my rosy red ass when it came to my attention that they were giving the Taliban in Afghanistan first aid training in the interest of "neutrality".

1Andy2  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:12:22 AM
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Originally Posted By destaccado:
Originally Posted By Oliver:
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
It does cost money to run a business.


a charity is not a business.


Sadly it looks like in the case of WWP - it is.


All charities are essentially businesses - they just don't pursue extra profits, and instead that money goes to whatever cause they support.

The idea that the people running them should live like monks is popular, but unreasonable. If you want something run efficiently, properly, and fairly, you need competent, full-time staff working there. That metric says nothing without more context.


Yep.

Some are more efficient than others. Salvation Army is one of the best, IIRC. Something like 90%+ of every dollar actually makes it to target.
learath  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:13:44 AM
Originally Posted By Madcap72:

Originally Posted By SecretKeeper:
Originally Posted By speedracer422:
I am familiar w/ several NPOs.
They are paying people those salaries (usually) because under their guidance they were able to raise a lot more cash and do a lot more productive things than before...
...it's a kinda catch 22.

Pay for talent and get more done (in this case benefiting soldiers), but suffer some public ridicule, or
Don't pay for talent, and get less done

I'm not saying it's always that black and white, but depending on the size of the NPO, $150k for a top position doesn't seem too outrageous.



Speed


I did my research and this is what I found too.
It does take experience & talent to run any organization and those who have these qualities come w/ a cost.

Heaven forbid people actually take the time to understand that the CEO getting 150 k a year, is probably negotiating for millions of dollars coming in every year or more.


Lets assume 150k/1m, that's 15%. We'll double that to account for his "assistant". That leaves you at 70%. Wait........
SpaceGuy  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:15:03 AM

Originally Posted By learath:
61% is actually not bad at all for most charities. YMMV

What charities actually give less than 61%?
The expenses at WWP are far in excess of any other NPO I can think of. WWP is arguably the lowest-rated charity for veterans. You are not doing anyone a favor by giving money to such an ill-managed company. Nearly 25% of every dollar earned goes to fundraising! That is almost double the rate of any other charity.


Tekka  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:16:09 AM
The dirty secret of most non-profits is that they usually pay their employees significantly more than for profit companies. Most people who start them do so because it is a way to get rich. They can hoard cash and investments and keep accumulating more and more and more wealth and give very little away each year. They don't have to lose all their money every year by being forced to give it all away. In the case of the wounder warrior project (which is literally down the street from my house) they have been doubling their income like every year. They are just exploding with wealth and growing like mad. The new headquarters they are leasing down the street from me looks pretty damn extravagant.
1Andy2  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:18:29 AM
Originally Posted By Tekka:
The dirty secret of most non-profits is that they usually pay their employees significantly more than for profit companies. Most people who start them do so because it is a way to get rich. They can hoard cash and investments and keep accumulating more and more and more wealth and give very little away each year. They don't have to lose all their money every year by being forced to give it all away. In the case of the wounder warrior project (which is literally down the street from my house) they have been doubling their income like every year. They are just exploding with wealth and growing like mad. The new headquarters they are leasing down the street from me looks pretty damn extravagant.


Got any proof or inside knowledge of these highlighted claims or are you just talking out your ass because you're safely anonymous on the internet?
speedracer422  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:19:03 AM

Originally Posted By TheRocketmac:
Originally Posted By RonnieJamesDioFan:
So the key to this scam is to start a charitable cause, collect the money, kick most of it back as overhead expenses, and then get on TV to talk about al the good I've done and guilt people into donating more to my cause?

I'm in.


While you're at it, enjoy the massive probe the IRS will give you...

They changed the laws concerning officer's salaries at NPOs a few years ago. Now, salaries maximums are based on a percentage of what the NPO pulls in and based on some industry average That isn't to say that an officer can't serve as a second position, or even be a subcontractor (many officers will pay themselves as grant writers as well), but it has seemed to eliminate a lot of the scams.

Before that, the scam was to start an NPO, pay yourselves exorbitant salaries, then BK the NPO and keep all whatever proceeds from assets before ever having paid a dime to a charitble cause
This was actually legal, and happened quite a lot

ETA: the regulation of NPOs would actually be a good subject to study for the arfcom economist
I'm not a fan of regulation in business of any kind, but in this case, it seems to have had the proper effect.


Speed
Bohr_Adam  [Life Member]
9/10/2011 11:20:11 AM
Originally Posted By Tekka:
The dirty secret of most non-profits is that they usually pay their employees significantly more than for profit companies. Most people who start them do so because it is a way to get rich. They can hoard cash and investments and keep accumulating more and more and more wealth and give very little away each year. They don't have to lose all their money every year by being forced to give it all away. In the case of the wounder warrior project (which is literally down the street from my house) they have been doubling their income like every year. They are just exploding with wealth and growing like mad. The new headquarters they are leasing down the street from me looks pretty damn extravagant.


We wouldn't have metrics like this thread is about if these orgs didn't have to account for every penny. If some crooked execs are hiding money, that is a different story - but that happens everywhere.

The WWP is trying to expand nationwide, to where people live. What you have described is evidence of the success of their executives, and sounds like an argument for more pay to me. I guaran-damn-tee you they are more efficient and more competent than the VA.
Madcap72  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:22:56 AM

Originally Posted By learath:
Originally Posted By Madcap72:

Originally Posted By SecretKeeper:
Originally Posted By speedracer422:
I am familiar w/ several NPOs.
They are paying people those salaries (usually) because under their guidance they were able to raise a lot more cash and do a lot more productive things than before...
...it's a kinda catch 22.

Pay for talent and get more done (in this case benefiting soldiers), but suffer some public ridicule, or
Don't pay for talent, and get less done

I'm not saying it's always that black and white, but depending on the size of the NPO, $150k for a top position doesn't seem too outrageous.



Speed


I did my research and this is what I found too.
It does take experience & talent to run any organization and those who have these qualities come w/ a cost.

Heaven forbid people actually take the time to understand that the CEO getting 150 k a year, is probably negotiating for millions of dollars coming in every year or more.


Lets assume 150k/1m, that's 15%. We'll double that to account for his "assistant". That leaves you at 70%. Wait........

Then you pay the employee's and that leaves you at 61%... Just like has been mentioned.




But...


  1. What percentage of my donation goes directly to wounded warrior?
    We continuously strive to keep administrative and fundraising costs associated with the operation of WWP as low as possible. Based on our FY2010 audited financial statements ending September 30, 2010, 82% of total expenditures went to provide services and programs for our wounded warriors and their families. We're proud to far exceed the Better Business Bureau's minimum standard of $0.65 for every dollar. We're consistently working to improve our efficiency and better serve warriors. If you're still curious, take a look at our financials.



Madcap72  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:26:15 AM

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Tekka:
The dirty secret of most non-profits is that they usually pay their employees significantly more than for profit companies. Most people who start them do so because it is a way to get rich. They can hoard cash and investments and keep accumulating more and more and more wealth and give very little away each year. They don't have to lose all their money every year by being forced to give it all away. In the case of the wounder warrior project (which is literally down the street from my house) they have been doubling their income like every year. They are just exploding with wealth and growing like mad. The new headquarters they are leasing down the street from me looks pretty damn extravagant.


Got any proof or inside knowledge of these highlighted claims or are you just talking out your ass because you're safely anonymous on the internet?
A. He said MOST

B. It's true, NP's are to make money, the difference being there's no stocks given out, and profit is put towards goals.

scootr29  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:28:00 AM
It is better to put the money/gift cards in the hands of the person who needs it.

My wife and I buy gas cards....

We then send them to older folks in our neighborhood who are on fixed incomes. We figure we the price of gas going up...a $25 gas card will go a long way.

We put them in an envelope and send them anonymously through the mail.

We also carry $5 Subway gift cards to give to the homeless we see while driving....now what they do with it is there business, but it does limit the chance they will use it at the liquor store.


effinNewGuy  [Member]
9/10/2011 11:30:35 AM
I can understand the need to pay the folks taking care of daily business, but at $150-250K? Get the fuck out of my wallet you cocksucking scammers !!
Overdose  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:32:29 AM
Originally Posted By RonnieJamesDioFan:
So the key to this scam is to start a charitable cause, collect the money, kick most of it back as overhead expenses, and then get on TV to talk about al the good I've done and guilt people into donating more to my cause?

I'm in.


Me too.

Madcap72  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:34:47 AM
The WWP makes a little under 30,000,000 a year, last year according to their site, 82% went to helping Veterans. The data from OP's claim was from 2009.



Bottom line, is tens of millions went to WWP, and WWP is a well respected foundation, formed BY Veterans, FOR GWOT Veterans to provide immediate care. I know people who have been helped by them, and I know many other people here probably do also.


-ETA Then again, we could leave stuff like this up to the VA and Tri-care...
Bohr_Adam  [Life Member]
9/10/2011 11:36:21 AM
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
The WWP makes a little under 30,000,000 a year, last year according to their site, 82% went to helping Veterans. The data from OP's claim was from 2009.



Bottom line, is tens of millions went to WWP, and WWP is a well respected foundation, formed BY Veterans, FOR GWOT Veterans to provide immediate care. I know people who have been helped by them, and I know many other people here probably do also.





Indeed. Calling it a "scam" is more than a tad ridiculous.
Madcap72  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:37:34 AM

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
The WWP makes a little under 30,000,000 a year, last year according to their site, 82% went to helping Veterans. The data from OP's claim was from 2009.



Bottom line, is tens of millions went to WWP, and WWP is a well respected foundation, formed BY Veterans, FOR GWOT Veterans to provide immediate care. I know people who have been helped by them, and I know many other people here probably do also.





Indeed. Calling it a "scam" is more than a tad ridiculous.
It's flat out ignorant.

Madcap72  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:39:53 AM

Originally Posted By effinNewGuy:
I can understand the need to pay the folks taking care of daily business, but at $150-250K? Get the fuck out of my wallet you cocksucking scammers !!

Ignorant statement, there's a lot of guys missing body parts, who have been helped by the program that would probably disagree with your view.
FightingHellfish  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:40:06 AM
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Originally Posted By Tekka:
The dirty secret of most non-profits is that they usually pay their employees significantly more than for profit companies. Most people who start them do so because it is a way to get rich. They can hoard cash and investments and keep accumulating more and more and more wealth and give very little away each year. They don't have to lose all their money every year by being forced to give it all away. In the case of the wounder warrior project (which is literally down the street from my house) they have been doubling their income like every year. They are just exploding with wealth and growing like mad. The new headquarters they are leasing down the street from me looks pretty damn extravagant.


We wouldn't have metrics like this thread is about if these orgs didn't have to account for every penny. If some crooked execs are hiding money, that is a different story - but that happens everywhere.

The WWP is trying to expand nationwide, to where people live. What you have described is evidence of the success of their executives, and sounds like an argument for more pay to me. I guaran-damn-tee you they are more efficient and more competent than the VA.


Are they hiring?

Do they have a veteran's preference? Gimme my 10 points damn it, I want on the gravy train too.
Interceptor_Knight  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:41:28 AM
Originally Posted By resq2106:
I decided the Red Cross could kiss my rosy red ass when it came to my attention that they were giving the Taliban in Afghanistan first aid training in the interest of "neutrality".

The American Red Cross has zero to do with the actions of the International Committee of The Red Cross....




Originally Posted By FreeBear:
And don't, DON'T look at the American Red Cross.....either. Unless you want your head to explode.

Go ahead and look. They have one of the best percentages...

hotbiggun42  [Team Member]
9/10/2011 11:41:56 AM
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Their CPO works in NYC.

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/mission/executive-staff/jeremy-chwat.aspx

Is he supposed to live with a roommate?


But 200k? Pretty sure you can find a retired CEO to donate his time.