AR15.Com Archives
 Smoke grenades (Military style) Legal or illegal for civillian ownership?
saigamanTX  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:39:33 PM EST
I'm sure if they are legal they are pretty damn expensive.

Anyway just wanted the low down :)
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redleg71  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:45:22 PM EST
We bought a case from a surplus store about 20 years ago for $4 a piece. I haven't seen any in a long time and don't know about their legality at the federal level. I know my state doesn't have any laws regarding them.
Thunder900  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:47:48 PM EST
I believe that they are considered fireworks. Legal, as long is you are not in NY or some other state that bans fireworks.
derekv814  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:50:08 PM EST
More importantly where can you get them?
Mxpatriot51  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:51:10 PM EST
I've seen lots of match light fuse smoke grenades for sale, but never a real deal M18. Probably due to the firing mechanism/fuse.


AmorphousBlob  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:52:01 PM EST
I believe that due to the fuse they are considered destructive devices now. See HERE.
UH_SALT_RIFLE  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:52:51 PM EST
there is a member here who made a home made smoke bomb that shut a highway down
GNRNR  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:52:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mxpatriot51:
I've seen lots of match light fuse smoke grenades for sale, but never a real deal M18. Probably due to the firing mechanism/fuse.




The M18s are now considered DDs.
mike12345  [Member]
8/11/2011 2:56:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By GNRNR:
Originally Posted By Mxpatriot51:
I've seen lots of match light fuse smoke grenades for sale, but never a real deal M18. Probably due to the firing mechanism/fuse.




The M18s are now considered DDs.


no they are not. The manufacturers CTS and ALS were given letters not to sel them to people without an explosives permit. They wont sell them anymore but the ATF hasent made a new ruling or said anything about ownership.

ETA its just the m201 fuse in question not the smoke grenade.
GAshooter11  [Member]
8/11/2011 2:56:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By GNRNR:
Originally Posted By Mxpatriot51:
I've seen lots of match light fuse smoke grenades for sale, but never a real deal M18. Probably due to the firing mechanism/fuse.




The M18s are now considered DDs.


really? so what if you bought pre-dd smokes? btw gun shows (if you are lucky) afe the best place to buy them. thats where i found mine, from an 80 yr old lady. she was selling m18's for 25$ a pop, and 40mm chalk/smoke rounds. how an old lady aquired these things ill never know.

Suzuki-Rokubei  [Member]
8/11/2011 2:58:54 PM EST
There was an ATF letter floating around that seemed to indicate they considered the pull ring fuse assembly to be an explosive and that was what caused stuff like the online sale of ALS smoke grenades to disappear nearly overnight. From what I can tell suppliers thought that discretion was the better part of valor

http://www.warriortalk.com/archive/index.php/t-79026.html
toby1  [Member]
8/11/2011 2:58:57 PM EST
I used to buy the match light kind from an a/c parts distributor. They would sell them to use to check a/c ductwork for joint leaks. Smoke duration was 30 sec. to 5 minutes, depending on what you bought. Tape a strike anywhere match to the fuse and we were good to go.
Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 3:02:06 PM EST
ALS ones are available for $50.
mike12345  [Member]
8/11/2011 3:15:56 PM EST
Do you see a new ruling? I don't



http://atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/
Evil_ATF  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 3:18:40 PM EST
Perfectly legal at the Federal level. Your local/state laws may vary.

WilliamGray  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 3:22:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
ALS ones are available for $50.

Where? They used to be available everywhere, but in the last year or so they have pulled them unless you send LEO credentials.
Top_Secret  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 3:19:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
ALS ones are available for $50.

Where? They used to be available everywhere, but in the last year or so they have pulled them unless you send LEO credentials.


Bump for info.
NuclearCookies  [Member]
8/12/2011 4:08:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Perfectly legal at the Federal level. Your local/state laws may vary.



"That which is legal for a government, but not legal for its population..." And all that.
NAM  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 4:08:27 AM EST
AGNTSA.
hardcorps1775  [Member]
8/12/2011 4:10:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By NAM:
AGNTSA.

I don't think many folks here go to the Ordnance section.

AFSOC  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 4:14:46 AM EST
BATFE told the makers that the M201 FUSE assembly is now considered "Explosive" you can still buy them you just have to have an explosives license (end user, Low Explosives, blah blah blah) ALS WILL sell them to you with a license. BATFE told them that they WILL NOT sell them to anyone without a license.

The Smoke is NOT a DD
This even effects the reloadable training bang. since it is just the FUSE that gets replaced and the Body is just a CAN.

The ALS SMOKE bodies are not any tighter regulated than they ever were it is the FUSE that is an issue now.
QP031  [Member]
8/12/2011 4:25:30 AM EST
A lot of back and forth.

So is possession of intact unfired m18's now considered possession of a DD?

Shit like this needs to get tacked if its true.
Some dumb mother fuckers keep them in all their vehicles.
Will  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 4:27:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
BATFE told the makers that the M201 FUSE assembly is now considered "Explosive" you can still buy them you just have to have an explosives license (end user, Low Explosives, blah blah blah) ALS WILL sell them to you with a license. BATFE told them that they WILL NOT sell them to anyone without a license.

The Smoke is NOT a DD
This even effects the reloadable training bang. since it is just the FUSE that gets replaced and the Body is just a CAN.

The ALS SMOKE bodies are not any tighter regulated than they ever were it is the FUSE that is an issue now.


That's my understanding. Supposedly a new fuse mechanism would allow "smokes" to be sold just as they always were. Dunno if they are working on one or not, suspect they are.
LongueCarabine  [Member]
8/12/2011 4:48:33 AM EST
What a bunch of retarded shit.

Fuck the ATF.

LC
usjet  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 5:05:57 AM EST
Popped a Vietnam era purple smoke in the backyard a few years ago- no wind, high humidity- took a LONG time to disperse..
CRC  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 5:11:17 AM EST
So the fuse is regulated but the not the body?
bluezerosix  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 5:18:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By LongueCarabine:
What a bunch of retarded shit.

Fuck the ATF.

LC


Absolutely could not agree more...

Fuckin' .gov has to meddle in EVERYTHING...
SIRIUS1  [Member]
8/12/2011 5:25:14 AM EST
They're alright if you are 'professional enough'.
Omni  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 5:31:21 AM EST
The fuse is regulated but the body is not. ALS stopped selling everything to non LEO or permit holders due to the ATF ruling. ALS has stated that they are working frantically to get another fuse assembly for civilian use since the loss of sales to paintballers/skydivers/shooters is having a affect on their bottom line.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
UBB  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 5:47:05 AM EST
I may or may not have a smoke grenade.

When I was in college I worked with a goofy militia type guy who gave me something out of his trunk.

He said it was a Canadian Military issue.

No markings on it, but it's a greenish cylinder with a white screw up top. No pin but a string attached from the cap to the cylinder. I've never had an opportunity to see what it does but have kept it all these years.

Can't find a picture of what I have on the interwebz though.

BatcaveSouth  [Member]
8/12/2011 5:48:42 AM EST
google homemade
fla556guy  [Member]
8/12/2011 6:47:30 AM EST
Utter stupidity. It's a damn smoke grenade, which has a variety of uses outside of the military.

Hell, I'd love to have some for my survival kit. Great way to let airborne things find you which is highly helpful especially in the mountains.

lonewarrior  [Member]
8/12/2011 7:15:42 AM EST
What is the shelf life of a M18 smoke?
PlaneJane  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 7:22:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By usjet:
Popped a Vietnam era purple smoke in the backyard a few years ago- no wind, high humidity- took a LONG time to disperse..

Yep. Takes even longer inside a house.

Jane

SamW  [Member]
8/12/2011 7:25:06 AM EST
Can you imagine how useful they'd be to hikers?

No clearning? WHO CARES! Purple smoke through the trees would tip EVERYONE off that something's up. No more making signal fires or relying on a flare that gives you 5-8 seconds of burn time.
juan223  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 7:29:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By GNRNR:
Originally Posted By Mxpatriot51:
I've seen lots of match light fuse smoke grenades for sale, but never a real deal M18. Probably due to the firing mechanism/fuse.




The M18s are now considered DDs.


Not really, the fuze contains a "low explosive" so it must be stored according to regs in an approved magazine and have an exp lisc, but not a DD

Kongo  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 7:32:33 AM EST

I wanna hear this story!




Originally Posted By UH_SALT_RIFLE:
there is a member here who made a home made smoke bomb that shut a highway down


DefensorFortis  [Member]
8/12/2011 7:32:56 AM EST
I've had a bad history with M18 smoke grenades. We threw one of in my friends back yard as a kid. Purple smoke seemed to hand around three back yards for some time. One neighbor didn't like the smoke being sucked in through his A/C unit. Then while in desert warfare training some years back I threw one to screen our withdrawl from an ambush I threw one and the fucker bounced and went right into a big dry sagebrush as the fuse was still igniting. So along with green smoke we had a flaming bush to cover our withdrawl. That caused a pause ex as we put the fire out and then the cadre were pissed for the fire being started they chucked a bunch of CS gas on us.

Plumbata  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 7:35:43 AM EST
Meh. Go to your local marine/boat supply and buy all the orange and white smokes grenades you want. $32 each. They are required to be carried if you go offshore, along with pop-up flares.

Course, they don't look all tactical and stuff.
Jonnysixguns  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 7:36:36 AM EST
But Chuck Schumer assured me that flash bangs and smoke grenades were safe back in the 90's... Now they're a DD? Scumbag. Noun.
Everrest  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 7:59:02 AM EST
I've used the following company products for smoke testing sewers. They have a product for sportsman now.
Superior smoke generators
Probably not military grade but the do produce smoke. I have no idea on the cost.

Check here: Sport smoke
speedracer422  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 8:02:52 AM EST
I just bought some pull string "smoke grenades" for my fireworks stand last month...IIRC I paid about $1/piece for them wholesale.

Now, they didn't put out anymore smoke than one of those "Mammoth Smoke" canisters they sell at the fireworks stores, but the pullstring fuse worked amazingly well, shooting out a big flame

I'm sure one could mix up some smoke mix and use those fuses for a LOT less than $50/pop the .mil ones go for











Speed
gaspain  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 8:06:55 AM EST
just make your own with sugar, instructions are on youtube
motown_steve  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 8:44:38 AM EST
So I take it that no one knows whether or not you could wind up in a FPMITA prison for having any of these.
juan223  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 8:45:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
So I take it that no one knows whether or not you could wind up in a FPMITA prison for having any of these.


No one knows.....yet
MedPig  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 9:01:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By PlaneJane:
Originally Posted By usjet:
Popped a Vietnam era purple smoke in the backyard a few years ago- no wind, high humidity- took a LONG time to disperse..

Yep. Takes even longer inside a house.

Jane



I'm going to have to hear this story...
PlaneJane  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 11:06:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By MedPig:
Originally Posted By PlaneJane:
Originally Posted By usjet:
Popped a Vietnam era purple smoke in the backyard a few years ago- no wind, high humidity- took a LONG time to disperse..

Yep. Takes even longer inside a house.

Jane



I'm going to have to hear this story...


Frat house.

Alcohol.

Old porcelain bathtub.

"Bettcha won't"

Wrong.

EOS.

TexasRifleman1985  [Industry Partner]
8/12/2011 11:46:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By PlaneJane:
Originally Posted By MedPig:
Originally Posted By PlaneJane:
Originally Posted By usjet:
Popped a Vietnam era purple smoke in the backyard a few years ago- no wind, high humidity- took a LONG time to disperse..

Yep. Takes even longer inside a house.

Jane



I'm going to have to hear this story...


Frat house.

Alcohol.

Old porcelain bathtub.

"Bettcha won't"

Wrong.

EOS.



I like you.
usjet  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 12:55:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By PlaneJane:
Originally Posted By usjet:
Popped a Vietnam era purple smoke in the backyard a few years ago- no wind, high humidity- took a LONG time to disperse..

Yep. Takes even longer inside a house.

Jane



You Win!
g3shooter  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 4:50:49 PM EST
As other posters have said, the fuzes are now regulated as explosive material.

A license is required to purchase and probably possess the M201A1 fuze.
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