AR15.Com Archives
 Inline whole house water filter: before or after softener? (Now installed and !@#)$%&)@$^)
Kuraki  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 10:05:19 AM
Just like the title says. Should I put a whole house filter before or after my water softener?
SharpCharge  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 10:11:08 AM
Just a shot in the dark, but I would think before. If you put it after, it may get clogged with the salts from the water softener.
fxntime  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 10:12:39 AM
Before, I've always run mine right after the tank. Make sure you isolate it on both sides with valves so you can shut them both off to do a quick change out of the cartridge without having to depressurize the system. I've got a sediment filter then a charcoal filter but after a few years, realized that I just needed a charcoal one so I just leave the sediment one empty. I replace when I notice water pressure dropping off, that depends on usage more then time.
batmanacw  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 10:13:31 AM
before. I have a large sediment and a smaller carbon before my water softener.
Bubbles  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 10:13:34 AM
Are you filtering for sediment, minerals, chemicals, or ?.
Kuraki  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 9:06:28 PM
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Are you filtering for sediment, minerals, chemicals, or ?.


Yes. Mostly for whatever minerals that cause the scale that tends to ruin my appliances/fixtures.

Thanks all.
timco  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 9:08:56 PM
Incoming service, ball valve, pressure regulator, filter, ball valve, magnets, everything else.
Thorgrim  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 9:24:32 PM
Originally Posted By timco:
Incoming service, ball valve, pressure regulator, filter, ball valve, magnets, everything else.


This is what you see under my home. Cheap and easy and totally good. You'd NEVER expect to see all that shit in the filter until you've run one and see it for yourself after a month of use.
BangStick1  [Member]
3/6/2011 9:29:39 PM
Our house has it installed under the kitchen sink after the softener.

I recently changed the filters and could hardly see the difference after 1 yr. of filtering and the new.


Thorgrim  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 9:38:21 PM
Originally Posted By BangStick1:
Our house has it installed under the kitchen sink after the softener.

I recently changed the filters and could hardly see the difference after 1 yr. of filtering and the new.




Stop it now with all that crazy talk
Surf  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 9:38:37 PM
Just a reminder put the filter in AFTER it goes to the outside spigots. Why filter the water to wash your car?
fxntime  [Team Member]
3/6/2011 9:40:04 PM
Originally Posted By Surf:
Just a reminder put the filter in AFTER it goes to the outside spigots. Why filter the water to wash your car?


Water spots?
Kuraki  [Team Member]
3/25/2011 11:55:55 PM
So I finally got around to installing this thing. I've done a bit of plumbing in this house, from the well to the shower head, and this has been a real cocksucker. I thought it was pretty simple but it's leaving me scratching my head.

I built a frame for the mounting bracket. Prior to installing I cut all my pipe and laid it out so I knew everything would go together once I cut the main water line. Before making my cut to splice the filter and piping in, I shut off my well pump, let the pressure tank drain to zero, then opened the spigot in the basement to drain all the pipes in the house. This way I wouldn't get a shower when I cut the pipe. I cut the pipe, made my joints, and turned the pump back on to fill the pressure tank. Then I opened the ball valve I have before the filter and it filled with water.

I run upstairs and turn on the kitchen faucet. Nothing. Just a drip. What the hell. In the bathroom, sink, I have half pressure (compared to before), the toilet fills slowly, but the shower is full pressure.

I go back down and turn the bypass on the filter unit in case the filter was the problem. Same result. I go back to the kitchen, unscrew the aerator from the faucet and *PPOOOMPH* get a blast of air and water. I immediately think, oh, it was just plugged. By no, I just get a 1/16" stream of water out of the faucet.

What the hell is going on here?
Mackinaw  [Member]
3/26/2011 12:07:26 AM
What filter are you using....size & type? What is the pressure drop of the filter?
Kuraki  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 12:11:57 AM
Originally Posted By Mackinaw:
What filter are you using....size & type? What is the pressure drop of the filter?


Let me say this: there is no pressure difference between using the filters bypass, running through the filter, or running through the canister with NO filter in it. All mean 1/2 pressure in bathroom sink, full power in shower, 1/16" stream in the kitchen.
deuce_22  [Member]
3/26/2011 12:13:40 AM
Why should you have to use a softener and filtration system both? Soft water tastes gross.
TinLeg  [Life Member]
3/26/2011 12:15:05 AM
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By Mackinaw:
What filter are you using....size & type? What is the pressure drop of the filter?


Let me say this: there is no pressure difference between using the filters bypass, running through the filter, or running through the canister with NO filter in it. All mean 1/2 pressure in bathroom sink, full power in shower, 1/16" stream in the kitchen.


Said another way...


You've lost your pressure in the system to certain faucets, regardless of the presence of the filter.


Correct?
Radiopat  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 12:16:51 AM
Soften first then undersink or secondary filters. If it's well water you should have a primary filter before the softener.
Mackinaw  [Member]
3/26/2011 12:17:53 AM
Did the tank fill and shut the pump off like normal? Have you checked the bladder pressure?
Kuraki  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 12:35:32 AM
Originally Posted By TinLeg:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By Mackinaw:
What filter are you using....size & type? What is the pressure drop of the filter?


Let me say this: there is no pressure difference between using the filters bypass, running through the filter, or running through the canister with NO filter in it. All mean 1/2 pressure in bathroom sink, full power in shower, 1/16" stream in the kitchen.


Said another way...


You've lost your pressure in the system to certain faucets, regardless of the presence of the filter.


Correct?



Correct.



Bladder pressure is fine. Pump is pumping to full pressure and kicking off as normal. I even tweaked the pressure switch higher to see if there was any change.
twr6444  [Member]
3/26/2011 12:58:32 AM
My guess is that you have a piece of solder, or some other obstruction in the area you worked on. Take it apart, and you should find it.
JoeyP  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 1:02:11 AM
Before the softener because its useless after it.
Mackinaw  [Member]
3/26/2011 1:06:15 AM
Originally Posted By JoeyP:
Before the softener because its useless after it.


Yep, you're gonna need a whole new septic system.....should have used Rid-X.

Kuraki  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 1:23:12 AM
Originally Posted By twr6444:
My guess is that you have a piece of solder, or some other obstruction in the area you worked on. Take it apart, and you should find it.


I've taken it apart and put it back together with straight pipe - no filter, nothing. Completely removed. I've got nothing. Worse than before.

At this point I'm about to rip every piece of fucking copper out of this house and start from scratch.
TinLeg  [Life Member]
3/26/2011 11:03:17 AM
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By twr6444:
My guess is that you have a piece of solder, or some other obstruction in the area you worked on. Take it apart, and you should find it.


I've taken it apart and put it back together with straight pipe - no filter, nothing. Completely removed. I've got nothing. Worse than before.

At this point I'm about to rip every piece of fucking copper out of this house and start from scratch.


Can you blow air backwards through the pipes?
_Matt_  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 11:19:59 AM

Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By twr6444:
My guess is that you have a piece of solder, or some other obstruction in the area you worked on. Take it apart, and you should find it.


I've taken it apart and put it back together with straight pipe - no filter, nothing. Completely removed. I've got nothing. Worse than before.

At this point I'm about to rip every piece of fucking copper out of this house and start from scratch.

that takes too long

just burn the house down and start out fresh


Penguin_101  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 11:28:09 AM
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
So I finally got around to installing this thing. I've done a bit of plumbing in this house, from the well to the shower head, and this has been a real cocksucker. I thought it was pretty simple but it's leaving me scratching my head.

I built a frame for the mounting bracket. Prior to installing I cut all my pipe and laid it out so I knew everything would go together once I cut the main water line. Before making my cut to splice the filter and piping in, I shut off my well pump, let the pressure tank drain to zero, then opened the spigot in the basement to drain all the pipes in the house. This way I wouldn't get a shower when I cut the pipe. I cut the pipe, made my joints, and turned the pump back on to fill the pressure tank. Then I opened the ball valve I have before the filter and it filled with water.

I run upstairs and turn on the kitchen faucet. Nothing. Just a drip. What the hell. In the bathroom, sink, I have half pressure (compared to before), the toilet fills slowly, but the shower is full pressure.

I go back down and turn the bypass on the filter unit in case the filter was the problem. Same result. I go back to the kitchen, unscrew the aerator from the faucet and *PPOOOMPH* get a blast of air and water. I immediately think, oh, it was just plugged. By no, I just get a 1/16" stream of water out of the faucet.

What the hell is going on here?


Did you turn the well pump back on?
iiibdsiil  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 11:34:20 AM
Air in the pipes have everything all fucked up? I know you generally have to turn open the faucets up in a certain order to get all the air out.
Ponyboy  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 11:42:59 AM
You have completely destroyed your entire house.
fxntime  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 1:25:37 PM
Easy fix, remove your faucet screens and clean them out, they are clogged with sediment from the pipes due to your draining of the system, very common. Other thing is what type of filter you used, if you used a porous solid type, you will cut pressure, use the charcoal inpregnated "soft type with the nylon screen on the outside, it will pass more pressure due to it's less restrictive nature.
slanted  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 1:35:43 PM
Here is a wild ass guess....

Submersible pump or not?

Could be your pump is not fully primed?


Take the filter housing off, put a bucket under it and open her up? Blasting water? Air?


MajorStumpDemon  [Member]
3/26/2011 1:43:45 PM
outhouse out back.

send the wife or the kids to the well with some buckets when you need water.

problem solved.
coldair  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 1:55:50 PM
Clean the strainers on the incoming water lines to the facet also check the cartridge inside the facet in case debris are stuck in there
mcnizzle  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 2:04:18 PM
Threads like this are why I tell my wife that doing my own electrical work can kill me but plumbing is more of a pain.
billyw9  [Member]
3/26/2011 2:09:37 PM
If you are on city water the filter goes before anything else.
If you are on well water the filter goes after the softener.
at least tis is how the ones with out the filter cartridges go.
TheRocketmac  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 2:14:57 PM
We did:

City Water -> Water Softener with media shield and then in-line RO filter (on 2 faucets).
Kuraki  [Team Member]
3/26/2011 2:22:35 PM
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Easy fix, remove your faucet screens and clean them out, they are clogged with sediment from the pipes due to your draining of the system, very common. Other thing is what type of filter you used, if you used a porous solid type, you will cut pressure, use the charcoal inpregnated "soft type with the nylon screen on the outside, it will pass more pressure due to it's less restrictive nature.


This was the answer. Or partly. Not everything clogged at the screen (which was my first thought when I saw the air buildup released when taking the screen off the kitchen faucet).

So much sediment came up with the water when I repressurized the house that even the valves on the faucets had plugged.

I had to remove every attachment, back pressurized compressed air through the pipes, through the attachments, through the entire system, as well as completely disassemble the toilet float valve, to get everything working again.




Long story short, I can now drink the water coming out of my faucet and while the charcoal "taste" filter is probably the most obstructive filter I can use, I have no noticeable loss in flow/pressure from pre-filter use. Thanks for all the suggestions.