AR15.Com Archives
 What can penetrate a bulletproof vest?
marvl  [Member]
5/4/2002 7:42:18 PM
Earlier today someone posted a link to an article about an assault rifle that could "go through 3 people wearing bulletproof vests". That, of course, is sheer nonsense, if indeed they were referring to a true assault rifle. But, then I realized I don't know much about the subject of bulletproof vests. Given that there are different types of vests providing different levels of protect and differences in a given caliber round I suppose generalities are hard to make. But, in general, will say a .223 penetrate the average bulletproof vest? Do vests only provide protection against typical pistol rounds, e.g., 9mm?
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Kevlar  [Member]
5/4/2002 7:44:06 PM
most concealable body armor is designed to stop only handgun rounds. a .223 or 7.62 WILL defeat soft body armor. it's all in the threat level, most concealable body armor is less than level3, (2,2a) this will not stop rifle rounds. however, non-concealable (swat type) armor will stop many standard rifle rounds, but it's too bulky for everyday use. ironically enough, i wear a vest that will stop 12 ga 00bk, .357 and .50AE rounds but a sharpened screwdriver or icepick will slide right through it. body armor is a a science unto it's own.
Tuukka  [Member]
5/4/2002 7:47:52 PM
Take a look at the NIJ threat levels, at this site for example. [url]http://freespace.virgin.net/iba.southwest/bodyarmour_nijlevels.htm[/url]
TopCrest  [Member]
5/4/2002 8:02:57 PM
[quote]What can penetrate a [b]bullet[/b]proof vest? [/quote] Well obviously not bullets silly!!![thinking]
Blaze-Of-Glory  [Member]
5/4/2002 8:15:58 PM
Of handgun rounds, 357-sig FMJ does the most penetrating.
Sewer_Urchin  [Team Member]
5/4/2002 8:25:28 PM
It depends on what state you live in. The post that you read earlier refered to Fremont California. In PRK, a .22 caliber rifle will penetrate 30 men who are wearing bullet proof vests from up to 5,000 yards out. Ordinary bullets have also been known to cause victims to explode and discharge on their own while within the borders of PRK.
Kar98  [Member]
5/4/2002 8:39:33 PM
A knife :) Oh, and 7.62x25 steel, too.
Waldo  [Team Member]
5/4/2002 9:32:52 PM
An arrow launched from my bow will go right through a vest.
fireguy  [Team Member]
5/4/2002 9:48:06 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By Sewer_Urchin: It depends on what state you live in. The post that you read earlier refered to Fremont California. In PRK, a .22 caliber rifle will penetrate 30 men who are wearing bullet proof vests from up to 5,000 yards out. Ordinary bullets have also been known to cause victims to explode and discharge on their own while within the borders of PRK.[/quote] LMAO [:)]
marvl  [Member]
5/4/2002 10:42:27 PM
This little puppy in 5.7x28mm will penetrate a variety of vests: [img]http://www.fnmfg.com/products/fivesevn/fivesevn.jpg[/img] Magazine Capacity: 20 rounds Penetrate PASGT vest: 300 meters Penetrate PASGT helmet: 240 meters Penetrate CRISAT vest: 100 meters Alas, it's an LEO-only weapon.
AlphaBobRI  [Member]
5/4/2002 10:55:25 PM
I don't know anything about vests, but I did catch a news story about some of the guys in Afghanistan who were wearing a new ceramic ballistic plate body armor. The story showed about a half-dozen plates that had been shot with AK-47/74 rounds. None of them went through. Also, the comment was made that the old Kevlar vests would have not stopped the rounds, and if they had, people would still be banged up (broken ribs, etc.). The new plates seemed to expand (perhaps that dissipates the energy?). Some of the guys reported not even knowing they had been shot. Looks like the small bore stuff just isn't going to work with today's armor.
jz87  [Member]
5/4/2002 11:51:09 PM
is there anyway of making jacketed shaped charges compact enough for a 7.62?
Imbroglio  [Member]
5/5/2002 3:09:14 AM
1. Make the projectile with a hardened pointed profile in order to facilitate passing between fibers and focus as much energy in the smallest area possible. Similar to tanto vs. kevlar. 2. Use brute force to overwhelm the ballistic resistance to the vest. This is most easily done by high projectile velocity. Level 3 will stop .223 and .308 ap, but not 30-06 ap. Level 4 will stop 30-06 ap but not 308 ap bullets loaded in .300 magnum calibers (200+ fps more). These vests require that heavy ceramic plates be worn in addition to standard vest and would not be commonly encountered.
Troy  [Site Staff]
5/5/2002 3:24:10 AM
[quote]Originally Posted By Imbroglio: Level 3 will stop .223 and .308 ap, but not 30-06 ap.[/quote] Actually, there's almost no ballistic difference between the .30-06 M2 AP round and the .308 M62 AP round. And I seriously doubt that Level III would stop a TRUE M995 5.56 AP round, though it would likely stop a non-AP M855 round. You can't always believe ads or even gub'mint standards. -Troy
007  [Member]
5/5/2002 3:28:42 AM
[quote]Originally Posted By Blaze-Of-Glory: Of handgun rounds, 357-sig FMJ does the most penetrating.[/quote] Where do you get your information ? I've done a couple test (nothing scientific) with AP 9 among some other calibers and 357 didn't do as well as I thought it would. Just curious.
Imbroglio  [Member]
5/5/2002 3:42:50 AM
[quote]Originally Posted By 007: Where do you get your information ? I've done a couple test (nothing scientific) with AP 9 among some other calibers and 357 didn't do as well as I thought it would. Just curious.[/quote] I agree. .357 sig with 125gr bullets is ballistically similar to .357 mag. If JHPs are used forget it against vests.
full-clip  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:32:32 AM
I was told by a LEO friend that he would be worried about of all things a 22mag round. Anybody else hear that? And MARVL what is that beauty of a weapon? I want one, tell me more.
DoubleFeed  [Team Member]
5/5/2002 7:42:18 AM
Full-clip, that round is fired from some really tiny revolvers. Do a search on North American Arms.
GLOCKshooter  [Team Member]
5/5/2002 9:56:03 AM
The 22 mag needs a long barrel to get going. The numbers out of a NAA show it is a loud, flashy, hard kicking (in that sized gun w/that sized wooden grip) 22 LR. The short barrels of the NAA rob a lot of velocity. It's a trade off for having a gun that fits in a Marlboro box. Know hat goes thru a vest? A BAYONET! [tinfoil]That's why they are on the AW ban feature list. The Bloo Berrrets (misspelled to stop Carrnnivorre from tripping) will be wearing vests when they come door to door to get your stuff and put you in camps[/tinfoil] [%|] (we need a tinfoil hat smiley icon!
Goad  [Member]
5/5/2002 11:06:23 AM
Glock Talk discusses this topic often, or rather does not ever discuss this topic. If you, this group, wants to totally f*ck up you can tell anyone and everyone exactly how to murder cops effectively. You can also discuss shaped charges with children who don't even have a clue of what a shaped charge is. This would give you the opportunity to help the totalitarians in Washington DC for the maximum effect...
garheadjr  [Member]
5/5/2002 11:17:42 AM
My vest (non-concealable) will stop pistol rounds and 12 ga. shotgun just wearing the carrier. With the steel plate inserts, it will stop up to a .308 round I believe. I usually don't wear the plates, but then I am more worried about shanks. Carrier is SUPPOSED to stop them too.
SigBlueStar  [Member]
5/5/2002 11:20:56 AM
There will be no such thing as a bullet proof vest until it can stop a [50] [:D]
pdxshooter  [Member]
5/5/2002 2:11:34 PM
[quote]Know hat goes thru a vest? A BAYONET! [tinfoil]That's why they are on the AW ban feature list. The Bloo Berrrets (misspelled to stop Carrnnivorre from tripping) will be wearing vests when they come door to door to get your stuff and put you in camps[/tinfoil] [%|] (we need a tinfoil hat smiley icon![/quote] Like this? [img]www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/Images/tinfoil.gif[/img]
gunsmithdude  [Member]
5/5/2002 2:29:05 PM
Youch, even if i had a vest that could stop a ma-deuce, i'd hate to get hit by it. It'll probably throw me back a hundred yards or something.
Wave  [Team Member]
5/5/2002 2:39:52 PM
You know, I was always told I am wearing a bullet-[b]RESISTANT[/b] vest.
marvl  [Member]
5/5/2002 3:54:10 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By full-clip: And MARVL what is that beauty of a weapon? I want one, tell me more.[/quote] It's the FN Five-SeveN pistol. Unfortunately, it's LEO-only. Here's the link: [url]http://www.fnmfg.com/products/fivesevn/fivesevn.htm[/url]
Gun Guru  [Member]
5/5/2002 4:00:19 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By Kar98: A knife :) Oh, and 7.62x25 steel, too.[/quote] Your right, the 7.62x25 is a penetrator and probably the only easily availible round we can buy for a pistol. GG
wil-N-VA  [Member]
5/5/2002 4:01:32 PM
I got something that will defeat your bulletproof vest, a well places round in your CNS ;)
grimshaw  [Member]
5/5/2002 4:03:45 PM
If you take one of the rollers out of a U-joint and drill hole in the center of a hollow point and press it into the hole you have a vest buster. The bullet strikes the vest, the roller penetrates, and the slug follows the roller through. This works with standard 9mm rounds, 45ACP and 40Smith.
dissipator556  [Member]
5/5/2002 4:09:28 PM
I smell a locked thread...
dissipator556  [Member]
5/5/2002 4:10:03 PM
My prediction- the thread gets locked by 5pm
Goad  [Member]
5/5/2002 4:23:02 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By grimshaw: If you take one of the rollers snip This works with standard 9mm rounds, 45ACP and 40Smith.[/quote] Hey thanks. Where can we hide bodies? I hear New Jersey swamps are good if you stuff the body in a 55 gal drum first. Do you bother with quick lime? The Oklahoma bomb was pretty good but how can we make a better one? Where can the bomb making materials be bought? Can we use fake IDs and stolen Credit Cards? Where can we get those? Lawyers representing the murdered victims' families will want to know how best to find you. Is your email correct?
dissipator556  [Member]
5/5/2002 6:26:03 PM
As for Grimshaw's post: Awesome (in a shocking, utterly retarded sense), isn't he? Some folks criticized me for asking how to silently kill a stray cat or two---in fact, the topic was even locked. And then this assclown goes and tells everyone how to build AP pistol rounds. Three issues on this: 1) Good luck hitting the broad side of a barn with that homemade AP shit-it doesn't sound at all accurate, 2) obviously, whoever posted this crap has no idea how much shit he would be in for being found possessing such homemade AP rounds, and 3) my utter shock and disbelief that this thread has not been locked. By the way, assclown, have you personally tested these rounds, and can you attest to their kevlar-piercing capabilities? Probably some shit that this moron found on an adventure-RPG gamer board.
Kevlar  [Member]
5/5/2002 6:28:53 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By dissipator556: As for Grimshaw's post: Awesome (in a shocking, utterly retarded sense), isn't he? Some folks criticized me for asking how to silently kill a stray cat or two---in fact, the topic was even locked. And then this assclown goes and tells everyone how to build AP pistol rounds. Three issues on this: 1) Good luck hitting the broad side of a barn with that homemade AP shit-it doesn't sound at all accurate, 2) obviously, whoever posted this crap has no idea how much shit he would be in for being found possessing such homemade AP rounds, and 3) my utter shock and disbelief that this thread has not been locked. By the way, assclown, have you personally tested these rounds, and can you attest to their kevlar-piercing capabilities? Probably some shit that this moron found on an adventure-RPG gamer board. [/quote] damn, don't hold back man, tell us how you REALLY feel. [:)]
grimshaw  [Member]
5/5/2002 6:37:45 PM
I read it in a book that was published here in America. Where you are posting they must have severe limitations on your freedom of speech. I guess you also assume that this information is some sort of contraband? If it is I would like to see you publish the law that says so! Assclown. When vests are outlawed, only outlaws will have vests. When information is outlawed only outlaws will have information.
NOVA5  [Member]
5/5/2002 6:48:44 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By marvl: Earlier today someone posted a link to an article about an assault rifle that could "go through 3 people wearing bulletproof vests". That, of course, is sheer nonsense, if indeed they were referring to a true assault rifle. But, then I realized I don't know much about the subject of bulletproof vests. Given that there are different types of vests providing different levels of protect and differences in a given caliber round I suppose generalities are hard to make. But, in general, will say a .223 penetrate the average bulletproof vest? Do vests only provide protection against typical pistol rounds, e.g., 9mm?[/quote] this depends on how "liberal" you want to be on the subject. most vehical mounted weapons will penetrate a vest with little slowing. Tank shells should pretty much go through the person without blinking.
dissipator556  [Member]
5/5/2002 6:51:18 PM
ahhhh, the mating cry of the loser... Seriously, I own a few kevlar vests, and I highly resent the fact that you are posting this shit. If I ever find some little assclown that is making this ammo, I will definitely forward all of their legal expenses to you. Thanks for voluntering yourself, assclown. (I think "assclown" is my buzz word for the week) edited to ask: what book was this? "Ammo for Mallninja's?", or "Ammo For Assclowns?"
nailbender  [Member]
5/5/2002 6:55:57 PM
What would penetrate a bullet proof vest? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Teacher, I know, please, please, please let me tell them!!! Ok, let's try an ICBM, that would work wouldnt it?
dissipator556  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:01:17 PM
Hey, I just thought of several more things that would penetrate a vest: "hardened gerbil dung, freeze-dried, and launched from a caseless, hydrogen and powdered aluminum, spire-pointed projectile." I got that from assclown's mall ninja book
Kevlar  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:03:46 PM
yeah, it's quite a comfort being in my line of work and knowing that bandwith on my favorite site is being wasted on fuckups trying to come up with ways to defeat my duty body armor. oh yeah i forgot,.............. ASSCLOWN!
dissipator556  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:05:04 PM
I think this guy is referring to small arms that are currently available to the average Joe. That would disqualify ICBM's, tank projectiles, and probably that caseless gerbil dung cannon
Goad  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:13:06 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By grimshaw: If you take one of the rollers snip This works with standard 9mm rounds, 45ACP and 40Smith.[/quote] After thinking about this I conclude that this probably does not come close to the velocities needed to defeat kevlar. In addition the bullet would not be balanced for accuracy. It is a gangbangers urban legend in the making. It probably came out of the Terrorist's Cookbook which is total BS.
Kevlar  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:16:53 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By Goad: [quote]Originally Posted By grimshaw: If you take one of the rollers snip This works with standard 9mm rounds, 45ACP and 40Smith.[/quote] After thinking about this I conclude that this probably does not come close to the velocities needed to defeat kevlar. In addition the bullet would not be balanced for accuracy. It is a gangbangers urban legend in the making. It probably came out of the Terrorist's Cookbook which is total BS. [/quote] i don't know, why don't we test it out on someone (hmmmm, wonder who?) and see if it works. i always love assinine know it all theories by people who have never heard a shot fired in anger nor ever fired one.
dissipator556  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:17:44 PM
Not to mention the feeding problems that Grim's hypothetical ammo would have. Of course, anyone can publish a book about anything that they want, and people will go out and buy it. Now I must go, and finish writing about the caseless freeze-dried gerbil dung/powdered aluminum AP railgun that I saw on the internet... [;D]
grimshaw  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:25:45 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By quietshoez: yeah, it's quite a comfort being in my line of work and knowing that bandwith on my favorite site is being wasted on fuckups trying to come up with ways to defeat my duty body armor. oh yeah i forgot,.............. ASSCLOWN! Doesn't it say something about "infringed" in your post? You only believe that to the point that you can manipulate it. The best vest for a cop is not made with hands. But few wear it. "Finally be strong in the Lord, and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the Devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled round your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the Gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." Cowards wear kevlar, real men kneel and pray.
Kevlar  [Member]
5/5/2002 7:38:50 PM
mmmm. o.k. so let's you and i stand 10 feet apart with .45's and shoot at each other's chest, i'll wear my vest and you can kneel and pray, okay? quietshoez out.
mattsd  [Member]
5/5/2002 9:08:45 PM
people are pretty ignorant about teh term "bullet proof" i highly doubt the "bullet proof" glass at the aquarium could stop .338 lapua.
007  [Member]
5/5/2002 9:47:32 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By garheadjr: My vest (non-concealable) will stop pistol rounds and 12 ga. shotgun just wearing the carrier. With the steel plate inserts, it will stop up to a .308 round I believe. I usually don't wear the plates, but then I am more worried about shanks. Carrier is SUPPOSED to stop them too.[/quote] I'm probably wrong but; The way I understand it,the carrier for a vest is used to hold the kevlar panels which actually do the stopping or slowing down of the bullet.These carriers are usually made out of nylon, if what you say is true, could you post a pic of your bullet resistant carrier ?
gunman0  [Team Member]
5/5/2002 9:59:29 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By mattsd: people are pretty ignorant about the term "bullet proof" I highly doubt the "bullet proof" glass at the aquarium could stop .338 lapua. [/quote] Depends on the size of the enclosure. That bulletproof glass is used to hold back a ridiculous weight of water in some tanks, and might be able to stop anything you can shoot at it.
NOVA5  [Member]
5/5/2002 10:46:13 PM
[quote]Originally Posted By gunman0: [quote]Originally Posted By mattsd: people are pretty ignorant about the term "bullet proof" I highly doubt the "bullet proof" glass at the aquarium could stop .338 lapua. [/quote] Depends on the size of the enclosure. That bulletproof glass is used to hold back a ridiculous weight of water in some tanks, and might be able to stop anything you can shoot at it.[/quote] that bullet proof glass (plexi-glass really) proably couldnt handle many hits. but a few it could take. that glass is holding back a lot of water yes. but its no the only thing takin up the brunt, all the other walls are to, plus its a slow weight (pressure built of slowly all over the surface equally as the water was added). a bullet on the other hand is a sudden impact at a single point the relative strenght of the two factors is variable. NOW if your shooting at it when its already holding back the water and you shoot it from the outside, y our liable to do some damage. and with enough rounds cause the water pressure to break it. reality is nothing is truley bulletproof, well.. except enought dirt. can you shoot a bullet from the USA to china through the earth? no way in hell. obviously the feds overlooked that fact. dirtvests ;).. okay my sleep incuded oddness will end.
Imbroglio  [Member]
5/6/2002 1:50:28 AM
If you wear a vest and don't violate the Constitution, then you have nothing to fear from ap bullets.
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