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 what does Xm193F mean?
1911greg  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:13:48 PM
Just curious what the X and the f at the end mean?

I dont remember any of my xm193 having a f at the end?

I dont' even remember what the x means?

Rejects?
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dpmmn  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:15:20 PM
The F at the end stands for "Fo"
marmilia  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:17:23 PM
Package configuration.

Link
Hedonist  [Life Member]
12/7/2010 7:18:21 PM
Not Lake City is what I understand it to be, still 20/box.
1911greg  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:20:23 PM
so why not call it M193?

Does the X mean anything?
DzlBenz  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:21:44 PM

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
so why not call it M193?

Does the X mean anything?

"X" means that it's M193 contract overrun. ATK says that while XM193 may not meet all of the Mil-Spec requirements, it does meet commercial requirements.
scootr29  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:22:54 PM
It will still put a hole in a Zombie....
1911greg  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:25:22 PM
Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
so why not call it M193?

Does the X mean anything?

"X" means that it's M193 contract overrun. ATK says that while XM193 may not meet all of the Mil-Spec requirements, it does meet commercial requirements.


so its basically the rejects right?
Cypher15  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:26:13 PM

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
so why not call it M193?

Does the X mean anything?

"X" means that it's M193 contract overrun. ATK says that while XM193 may not meet all of the Mil-Spec requirements, it does meet commercial requirements.


so its basically the rejects right?
sort of, kind of, yes/no.

wingnutx  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:26:31 PM
It is indeed Lake City.

F simply means that it is packaged in boxes of 20.

DzlBenz  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:29:31 PM

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
so why not call it M193?

Does the X mean anything?

"X" means that it's M193 contract overrun. ATK says that while XM193 may not meet all of the Mil-Spec requirements, it does meet commercial requirements.


so its basically the rejects right?
Not necessarily. If DoD orders a run of 123,456 rounds and ATK has to produce 124,567 rounds because of whatever manufacturing constraint, there are 1,111 over-run rounds that they will sell as commercial ammunition.

dpmmn  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:30:44 PM

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
so why not call it M193?

Does the X mean anything?


Because this is the real deal M193

Hedonist  [Life Member]
12/7/2010 7:32:34 PM

Originally Posted By wingnutx:
It is indeed Lake City.

F simply means that it is packaged in boxes of 20.


Then what does the "packaged at Amoka" mean? They moved it there for packaging?

ETA - from this thread.
Hanzerik  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:32:46 PM
Xtra Fast
wingnutx  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 7:56:36 PM

Originally Posted By Hedonist:

Originally Posted By wingnutx:
It is indeed Lake City.

F simply means that it is packaged in boxes of 20.


Then what does the "packaged at Amoka" mean? They moved it there for packaging?

ETA - from this thread.

Federal states that it is manufactured at the Lake City plant. They don't say where they box it up at. They do have a facility in Anoka.

Everything I've read (I spent about an hour looking it up) says that the F means 20 round boxes.

http://www.federalpremium.com/resources/xm193.aspx

^ there's the specs on XM193 from Federal, as well as a note about the suffix.
1911greg  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 8:14:02 PM
what I dont understand is who is using M193?

I know the army doesn't use it anymore.

Im guessing its the same for the Marines?
AFSOC  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 8:23:12 PM
So much speculation and so many WRONG answers.

OK here is the deal, I work at Lake City and the SCOOP on the XM-193 is thus

There iss a line setup in Building 1 to produce XM-193 product for the Commercial Market.
This is the same line that also produced AE-223


So that all aside it is FIRST RUN, FIRST QUALITY ammunition produced at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant.
Commercially boxed on premises. There are other XM products as well.XM33, XM-556 and XM80 but those don't get produced as often.
Some are lots that failed for some reason or another others are first run, the XM-193 is First Run ammunition.

There is your plain and simple answer.
Cases are drawn from the EXACT same cups used for .MIL ammo
Bullet Jackets and Lead Slugs are made on the EXACT machines from the EXACT materials as .MIL ammo
Primers, Powder etc are the same materials as .MIL

Tested to the same standards as the .MIL production.
Hedonist  [Life Member]
12/7/2010 8:28:09 PM

Originally Posted By AFSOC:
So much speculation and so many WRONG answers.

OK here is the deal, I work at Lake City and the SCOOP on the XM-193 is thus

There iss a line setup in Building 1 to produce XM-193 product for the Commercial Market.
This is the same line that also produced AE-223


So that all aside it is FIRST RUN, FIRST QUALITY ammunition produced at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant.
Commercially boxed on premises. There are other XM products as well.XM33, XM-556 and XM80 but those don't get produced as often.
Some are lots that failed for some reason or another others are first run, the XM-193 is First Run ammunition.

There is your plain and simple answer.
Cases are drawn from the EXACT same cups used for .MIL ammo
Bullet Jackets and Lead Slugs are made on the EXACT machines from the EXACT materials as .MIL ammo
Primers, Powder etc are the same materials as .MIL

Tested to the same standards as the .MIL production.

Good, glad you showed up.

Please explain the difference between the XM193 - 20/box I have in my ammo cabinet, vs. XM193F for sale, which also appears to be 20/box.

TIA.

AFSOC  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 8:31:01 PM
Originally Posted By Hedonist:

Originally Posted By AFSOC:
So much speculation and so many WRONG answers.

OK here is the deal, I work at Lake City and the SCOOP on the XM-193 is thus

There iss a line setup in Building 1 to produce XM-193 product for the Commercial Market.
This is the same line that also produced AE-223


So that all aside it is FIRST RUN, FIRST QUALITY ammunition produced at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant.
Commercially boxed on premises. There are other XM products as well.XM33, XM-556 and XM80 but those don't get produced as often.
Some are lots that failed for some reason or another others are first run, the XM-193 is First Run ammunition.

There is your plain and simple answer.
Cases are drawn from the EXACT same cups used for .MIL ammo
Bullet Jackets and Lead Slugs are made on the EXACT machines from the EXACT materials as .MIL ammo
Primers, Powder etc are the same materials as .MIL

Tested to the same standards as the .MIL production.

Good, glad you showed up.

Please explain the difference between the XM193 - 20/box I have in my ammo cabinet, vs. XM193F for sale, which also appears to be 20/box.

TIA.


Just Federal Product Codes, there is no difference between the 20 round boxed ammo, the 100 round boxed ammo and the 200/400 round.
the Bulk packaged ammo 1000 rounds in a bag in a box is the only difference. AE223 Tactical just has a different headstamp.
MONGO45  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 8:33:27 PM
I love hearing it straight from a man at the source.
Hedonist  [Life Member]
12/7/2010 8:37:28 PM
Okay - just to be clear, the little brown boxes which only differ by one having an "F" are identical.

My one year old brown boxes of 20 XM193 now ships this year as XM193F - correct?

I couldn't see a difference, others said it was different packaging - but it's just called "F" now.

AFSOC  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 8:40:17 PM
There are a TON of product codes!
F
AF
CBP
C
X
B
D
Blah
Blah
Blah
Switchh  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 8:42:17 PM
Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Okay - just to be clear, the little brown boxes which only differ by one having an "F" are identical.

My one year old brown boxes of 20 XM193 now ships this year as XM193F - correct?

I couldn't see a difference, others said it was different packaging - but it's just called "F" now.



To quote from their website.

All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration.
dpmmn  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 8:42:35 PM

Originally Posted By Hedonist:

Originally Posted By wingnutx:
It is indeed Lake City.

F simply means that it is packaged in boxes of 20.


Then what does the "packaged at Amoka" mean? They moved it there for packaging?

ETA - from this thread.

It's spelled ANOKA, and it's my hometown

Packaged in Anoka means it was just that packaged at the Anoka, MN Plant which is Federal Cartridge
The XM193F was produced at the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant, then shipped to Anoka for packaging

for distribution
Vulcan94  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 8:49:43 PM
I would ask my brother, who is a engineer at ATK, but he only works with 120mm anti-tank and mortar rounds.


Vulcan94
Hedonist  [Life Member]
12/7/2010 8:59:51 PM

Originally Posted By Switchh:
Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Okay - just to be clear, the little brown boxes which only differ by one having an "F" are identical.

My one year old brown boxes of 20 XM193 now ships this year as XM193F - correct?

I couldn't see a difference, others said it was different packaging - but it's just called "F" now.



To quote from their website.

All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration.

Okay, so just explain how the "package configuration" differs from my 1 year old boxes marked XM193, and the XM193F I see.

Its a simple question, and apparently there is no difference in product or packaging other than the "F" on the box - or perhaps packaged at a different location?

I don't mean to be obtuse here, however no one has said that its just the same thing, now marked "F" - or the best reason I've heard for a suffix is that the rounds were packaged at a different location.

Not a big deal, but bothering me that posters say there is a difference (packaging) when there isn't any apparent difference in quantity per box, quality of product, color of box, whatever.

If the codes mean something I'd like to see what they mean.

jeep450  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 9:06:31 PM
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
I would ask my brother, who is a engineer at ATK, but he only works with 120mm anti-tank and mortar rounds.


Vulcan94


Group buy?



What, someone had to
jeep450  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 9:09:29 PM
Originally Posted By Hedonist:

Originally Posted By Switchh:
Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Okay - just to be clear, the little brown boxes which only differ by one having an "F" are identical.

My one year old brown boxes of 20 XM193 now ships this year as XM193F - correct?

I couldn't see a difference, others said it was different packaging - but it's just called "F" now.



To quote from their website.

All XM193 product is the same regardless of the sku or part number. (ie. XM193C is the same as XM193F, XM193CBP and etc…) The only difference is the package configuration.

Okay, so just explain how the "package configuration" differs from my 1 year old boxes marked XM193, and the XM193F I see.

Its a simple question, and apparently there is no difference in product or packaging other than the "F" on the box - or perhaps packaged at a different location?

I don't mean to be obtuse here, however no one has said that its just the same thing, now marked "F" - or the best reason I've heard for a suffix is that the rounds were packaged at a different location.

Not a big deal, but bothering me that posters say there is a difference (packaging) when there isn't any apparent difference in quantity per box, quality of product, color of box, whatever.

If the codes mean something I'd like to see what they mean.



Sounds like it is just a production code for them to track it. It could mean anything, made on Friday, made between the hours of 12:00 and 18:00. It's just for them, doesnt mean anything special.
DVCAPI  [Team Member]
12/7/2010 10:34:01 PM
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
There are a TON of product codes!
F
AF
CBP
C
X
B
D
Blah
Blah
Blah


Is any of the XM193 on stripper clips and what's the code for it?
Coifman  [Member]
12/8/2010 12:07:44 AM
I just bought a 900 round box of xm193AF packaged on 10 round stripper clips. Makes loading mags a breeze!!
AFSOC  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 5:59:02 AM
Originally Posted By DVCAPI:
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
There are a TON of product codes!
F
AF
CBP
C
X
B
D
Blah
Blah
Blah


Is any of the XM193 on stripper clips and what's the code for it?


XM-193AF is the stuff on strippers.
900 rounds to a box in 30 round cardboard sleeves with some stripper guides.
RichR  [Member]
12/8/2010 6:26:47 AM
nevermind. Answers already provided and I'm not wasting time on OCD.
MIDGAPATRIOT  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 6:28:34 AM
Originally Posted By dpmmn:
The F at the end stands for "Fo"


I knew it!!
LightningII  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 6:29:54 AM
Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
so why not call it M193?

Does the X mean anything?

"X" means that it's M193 contract overrun. ATK says that while XM193 may not meet all of the Mil-Spec requirements, it does meet commercial requirements.


so its basically the rejects right?


no, it just may not meet the .mil std for waterproofing, or any of a bazillion other requirements.
DaveS  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 6:55:34 AM
I thought the codes stood for All Floor Sweeps
{not carrying if they were First, Second or Third
Floor Sweeps},
Not The Way Winchester Does It,
alongwith how many/much:

1) Dents
2) Corrosiion
3) Crushed necks
4) Bent bullets
5) yada yada

I bet there are more than a few around here that
could put together a Slide View of what came out
of LC when ATK took over and the many years
following.
Dru  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 7:49:48 AM
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
So much speculation and so many WRONG answers.

OK here is the deal, I work at Lake City and the SCOOP on the XM-193 is thus

There iss a line setup in Building 1 to produce XM-193 product for the Commercial Market.
This is the same line that also produced AE-223


So that all aside it is FIRST RUN, FIRST QUALITY ammunition produced at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant.
Commercially boxed on premises. There are other XM products as well.XM33, XM-556 and XM80 but those don't get produced as often.
Some are lots that failed for some reason or another others are first run, the XM-193 is First Run ammunition.

There is your plain and simple answer.
Cases are drawn from the EXACT same cups used for .MIL ammo
Bullet Jackets and Lead Slugs are made on the EXACT machines from the EXACT materials as .MIL ammo
Primers, Powder etc are the same materials as .MIL

Tested to the same standards as the .MIL production.


AFSOC... What about the 100 rnd boxes of .223 you find at walmart.... Is this AE even 'tho it's not marked as such?

I've fired a ton of this stuff and noticed a few cases that's had sealed primers (Purple sealant)

AFSOC  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 10:25:50 AM
The Value pack is not the AE Tactical ammunition, It is MUCH lower velocity than the XM or AE tactical.
Federal is the company, AE is the lower priced products.
WalMart has their own product code on that stuff too starts with WM...
Muad_Dib  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 10:51:14 AM
Did I correctly read that you say the AE223 Tactical is the same as the XM193, just with a different head stamp?

If so, does that mean that the XM193 being sold is not NATO spec 5.56, or does that mean that the AE223 is not SAAMI .223? What leade specification is being used?
Muad_Dib  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 10:52:59 AM
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
Just Federal Product Codes, there is no difference between the 20 round boxed ammo, the 100 round boxed ammo and the 200/400 round.
the Bulk packaged ammo 1000 rounds in a bag in a box is the only difference. AE223 Tactical just has a different headstamp.


Quoted to clarify my above question.

Dru  [Team Member]
12/8/2010 11:06:41 AM
Originally Posted By AFSOC:
The Value pack is not the AE Tactical ammunition, It is MUCH lower velocity than the XM or AE tactical.
Federal is the company, AE is the lower priced products.
WalMart has their own product code on that stuff too starts with WM...


Gotcha...


Very informative thread BTW.
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