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Jerky without cure....
12/26/2011 7:18:37 PM
...So I'm a jerky-holic......unfortunately, I figured out several months ago that nitrites are a migraine trigger for me.
So I stopped eating it. I got a dehydrator for Christmas and I want to make my own. I've been reading that the only other way to reduce bacteria besides a nitrite-based cure is to heat the meat before or after drying to 160. Before drying, it has been suggested to boil the meat in the marinade at the end of the marinade period for 5 minutes. This seems doable, but also really gross......and I wonder what the texture of the jerky would be after boiling.....also, would this be considered kind of a par-boil technically? Anybody every done any of the heating stuff or made jerky without a cure?
So I stopped eating it. I got a dehydrator for Christmas and I want to make my own. I've been reading that the only other way to reduce bacteria besides a nitrite-based cure is to heat the meat before or after drying to 160. Before drying, it has been suggested to boil the meat in the marinade at the end of the marinade period for 5 minutes. This seems doable, but also really gross......and I wonder what the texture of the jerky would be after boiling.....also, would this be considered kind of a par-boil technically? Anybody every done any of the heating stuff or made jerky without a cure?12/26/2011 8:20:15 PM
Just dry it plain and see how it does. I do this sometimes. Does salt trigger your migraines? Check around for soy or Woechestershire sauce and see if they have nitrates, A mild salt solution with whatever flaver you like should cure ok.
12/26/2011 9:11:54 PM
Originally Posted By bodybagger:
Just dry it plain and see how it does. I do this sometimes. Does salt trigger your migraines? Check around for soy or Woechestershire sauce and see if they have nitrates, A mild salt solution with whatever flaver you like should cure ok.
Just dry it plain and see how it does. I do this sometimes. Does salt trigger your migraines? Check around for soy or Woechestershire sauce and see if they have nitrates, A mild salt solution with whatever flaver you like should cure ok.
The science of nitrates vs. nitrites is not SUPER clear to me. But I do know that it is nitrites specifically that are known triggers for migraines. And that it is nitrites specifically that are in curing salts, and are in fact, the single agent that will kill and\or keep at bay microbial growth as the meat drys over several hours. And that's the trick, that 4-10 hours of drying time and the fact that the meat is not going to be up to 160 for that entire time. So, without nitrite based curing salts, jerky is at a greater risk of carrying nasty bacteria during the drying process, and then that bacteria remaining when it's done drying. I'm not so much worried about how long it will keep since I'm not stockpiling, just devouring! I'm guessing I will try the par boiling method on my first batch unless somebody tells me that it will suck.
12/26/2011 9:49:14 PM
I use Dales seasoning and whisky. IDK if Dales contains nitrites or not but I do a lot of jerky plain ,just slice it and put it in the dehydrator and have never had any problems with it. If in doubt, put it in bags in the freezer. I have never has any last long enough to go bad though.
12/26/2011 10:52:22 PM
Congrats on the dehydrator. I've been meaning to get one myself.
I'm a jerky holic too and make my own all the time. I don't use curing salts though and you don't have to either. I do use soy sauce and worcesteshire sauce marinades though and am not sure if there are nitrites in those. You'll eat it long before it goes bad so you wouldn't need preservatives of any kind. I make mine in the oven and the lowest setting on my oven is 170, but the door stays cracked open so it probably only gets to 100 or so. If you let it go to high then you are cooking it and not drying it as jerky should be done.
You don't have to use marinades of any kind though. You could just dry it with seasonings that you know won't trigger your migraines. It could be anything you want actually. Around here, 3lbs (a normal batch) of jerky will last approximately 1 week with all the mouths that munch on it and it is nowhere near going bad when it runs out. Sometimes I freeze some just to have a little to myself for later. If I can sneak some away into my desk drawer at work, it will last about 1 month or so unrefrigerated.
I'm a jerky holic too and make my own all the time. I don't use curing salts though and you don't have to either. I do use soy sauce and worcesteshire sauce marinades though and am not sure if there are nitrites in those. You'll eat it long before it goes bad so you wouldn't need preservatives of any kind. I make mine in the oven and the lowest setting on my oven is 170, but the door stays cracked open so it probably only gets to 100 or so. If you let it go to high then you are cooking it and not drying it as jerky should be done.
You don't have to use marinades of any kind though. You could just dry it with seasonings that you know won't trigger your migraines. It could be anything you want actually. Around here, 3lbs (a normal batch) of jerky will last approximately 1 week with all the mouths that munch on it and it is nowhere near going bad when it runs out. Sometimes I freeze some just to have a little to myself for later. If I can sneak some away into my desk drawer at work, it will last about 1 month or so unrefrigerated.
12/27/2011 5:45:39 PM
Marinaded jerkies don't require 'nitrate/nitrite' salts. Instead you use soy sauce and other preserving high sodium chemicals. Dad's jerky marinade is one I use regularly and it does not call for curing salts. While salts certainly help cure or preserve meat, drying meat along is a natural preservative. The salts are commonly thrown in there to just make double sure the job is done. While I still use curing salts for most of my jerky (that goes on to be stored for a long period of time mostly what goes into 72 hour kits and 'go-to-hell' bag) I use the dad's jerky marinade for my holiday jerky which is consumed within days if not hours. Additionally, a vacuum sealer helps with the preservation process by eliminating air and moisture which could 'turn' your jerky. Finally I freeze my vacuumed packed jerky to give yet another layer to the preservation. I pack them in 'day-size' packs so that I can take what I need on a hunt, camp or hike (even a day at work) and not have to worry too much about them even being a problem. I hope this helps and I feel for your 'trigger' as it would not be a pleasant one for anyone of us who truly enjoy jerky. While I'm not migraine specialist (I have done some studies on physiological links, but nothing to do with triggers) I would consider seeing if it is in fact the salts or perhaps the secondary result of consuming these salts (dehydration or increased blood pressure). If you have to 'load-up' on water before eating jerky that too may be helpful. Good luck and report back what you find that works. 
12/27/2011 11:11:26 PM
American Indians cured Suk se, ma' sha' wa and. Koch' she ke for thousands of years before we got here. I think you can do without curing salts and just use regular salt.
12/27/2011 11:16:05 PM
I never use any curing stuff
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_163/1204269_Does_making_beef_jerky_count_as_cooking_.html
My other marinade is to boil water and add garlic, sea salt and pepper, and optionally some cajun seasoning. Then I let it cool and soak the sliced meat in it.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_163/1204269_Does_making_beef_jerky_count_as_cooking_.html
My other marinade is to boil water and add garlic, sea salt and pepper, and optionally some cajun seasoning. Then I let it cool and soak the sliced meat in it.
12/27/2011 11:34:15 PM
Originally Posted By MrZero:
The science of nitrates vs. nitrites is not SUPER clear to me. But I do know that it is nitrites specifically that are known triggers for migraines. And that it is nitrites specifically that are in curing salts, and are in fact, the single agent that will kill and\or keep at bay microbial growth as the meat drys over several hours. And that's the trick, that 4-10 hours of drying time and the fact that the meat is not going to be up to 160 for that entire time. So, without nitrite based curing salts, jerky is at a greater risk of carrying nasty bacteria during the drying process, and then that bacteria remaining when it's done drying. I'm not so much worried about how long it will keep since I'm not stockpiling, just devouring! I'm guessing I will try the par boiling method on my first batch unless somebody tells me that it will suck.
Originally Posted By bodybagger:
Just dry it plain and see how it does. I do this sometimes. Does salt trigger your migraines? Check around for soy or Woechestershire sauce and see if they have nitrates, A mild salt solution with whatever flaver you like should cure ok.
Just dry it plain and see how it does. I do this sometimes. Does salt trigger your migraines? Check around for soy or Woechestershire sauce and see if they have nitrates, A mild salt solution with whatever flaver you like should cure ok.
The science of nitrates vs. nitrites is not SUPER clear to me. But I do know that it is nitrites specifically that are known triggers for migraines. And that it is nitrites specifically that are in curing salts, and are in fact, the single agent that will kill and\or keep at bay microbial growth as the meat drys over several hours. And that's the trick, that 4-10 hours of drying time and the fact that the meat is not going to be up to 160 for that entire time. So, without nitrite based curing salts, jerky is at a greater risk of carrying nasty bacteria during the drying process, and then that bacteria remaining when it's done drying. I'm not so much worried about how long it will keep since I'm not stockpiling, just devouring! I'm guessing I will try the par boiling method on my first batch unless somebody tells me that it will suck.
I was under the impression that salt of any kind was antibacterial and will kill off almost anything harmful. I could be wrong but i also believe that the nitrates/nitrites that are added to "cures" are for the preservation of color/texture, neither if which are a concern for jerky. I use kosher salt, real soy sauce, and worcestershire sauce for my jerky marinade and it sees NO HEAT at all before or after drying.
12/28/2011 12:57:49 AM
Alton Brown's recipe has no nitrates and it is simply seasoned dried strips of beef.
12/28/2011 2:04:11 AM
Salt itself doesn't disinfect anything. But by nature of the fact that salt absorbs the moisture whatever bacteria present has a tough time surviving in such dry conditions. One of the reasons it's of utmost importance to use fresh meat is because of this fact, salt, drying and freezing don't kill all bacteria. You start with a level of natural bacteria in the meat that our stomachs can handle, fresh meat (like fresh clean eggs) you can eat raw without too likely of a case of infection/getting sick. There are things you can do to eliminate most things even if you microwave it for a short period of time. Some packaging plants use microwaves to do this, too bad there isn't a readily available low radiation option for regular homes. Hope that helps clarify the role of salts in jerky.
12/28/2011 2:25:47 AM
Originally Posted By Willz:
Alton Brown's recipe has no nitrates and it is simply seasoned dried strips of beef.
Alton Brown's recipe has no nitrates and it is simply seasoned dried strips of beef.
^^ this
i was about to post this too
he uses a fan in window to dry it out
12/28/2011 2:30:43 AM
Originally Posted By d13s3l:
^^ this
i was about to post this too
he uses a fan in window to dry it out
Originally Posted By Willz:
Alton Brown's recipe has no nitrates and it is simply seasoned dried strips of beef.
Alton Brown's recipe has no nitrates and it is simply seasoned dried strips of beef.
^^ this
i was about to post this too
he uses a fan in window to dry it out
I actually tried that several years ago.....box fan, A/C filter, bungie cords. It was awful. Love Alton, but the MacGyver method sucks!
12/28/2011 5:09:17 AM
Strange, that is the method i was talking about. It never lasts more than a week in my house no matter how much i make. different strokes for different folks i guess. Hope you find something that works for you, no one deserves a life without jerky!
12/28/2011 7:37:51 PM
I sprinkle my jerky strips with 'Slap Ya Mama' and dry it in the oven with the heat at the lowest setting and the oven door propped open. Works great.
12/29/2011 1:06:52 AM
Update:
So, first batch was a total fail.....
So basically I turned some top round into sawdust pellets in about 4 hours.
New batch is soaking in marinade currently overnight:
So, first batch was a total fail.....
- Strips and pieces were WAY too small
- I had NO salt at all in my marinade (forgot to sub a salty liquid like soy for the curing salts
- Par boiling for all of 2 minutes cooked the meat
- Over dried
So basically I turned some top round into sawdust pellets in about 4 hours.
New batch is soaking in marinade currently overnight:
- Much wider and longer strips
- Marinade includes soy, Worcestershire, onion powder, Sriracha, brown sugar, smoked paprika, bp, liquid smoke, etc...
- No par-boiling this time
- More attentiveness to the drying process
I'll take my chances this time with the microbes. I *may* try the heating after drying technique on a few pieces for comparison if I can figure out a way to do that that doesn't dry it out further.
12/29/2011 3:38:23 PM
Freeze the jerky for a couple of days.
