Musicians, some advice, please?

I've been making a massive effort lately to increase my musical knowledge and abilities. (I play guitar...badly.)

I'm trying to figure out a computer-aided path to improve my general knowledge of music, from both a theory and practical aspect,
including sight reading, intervals, scales, progressions, scale harmonization, and...eventually...composition and scoring. I have musical
idea locked up in my head and no way to get them out yet.


What I want is to be able to use my guitar to interface with the computer and use it as a note entry device so I can document what
I come up with, then edit it, play it back, etc...pretty much what a composer would do, but of course, at a much more basic level.


I became aware of the music composition software Sibelius 7 and have downloaded the 30 day trial of it. It's incredible well though out
and even I can get SOMETHING out of it even at my low skill level.

But right now I have no connection between the guitar and the computer, not MIDI anyway. I do have Guitar Rig 5 and can plug in and use
my computer as a complete guitar rig, but there's no MIDI connection.


The questions I'm asking myself, and will ask you, too, if you know much about this stuff, is, is Sibelius really the right software for me,
right now? What would you recommend that might be more suitable?

And, what is the most cost-effectivek, quality way of getting my guitar's signal into the computer as MIDI data?

I have a good sound card but it has no MIDI interface. But there are other ways of doing it. Guitar to MIDI converters are available.

I could install a Roland hex pickup and MIDI controller on a guitar. (Or, actually, for this purpose I'd build another guitar with that system
integrated into the build. That's easy for me.)

And I've considered also picking up a MIDI keyboard as a controller, and in the process I'd pick up some ability to play keyboards.


I want to expand my capabilities but don't want to wander off track, too. I'm not looking at building a complete recording studio, but I do
want my computer to be the focal point of my musical education and exploration.

I'm also taking lessons from two very different but excellent musicians, too. Both are masters of music theory but one is a hard rocker and
the other is one of the most adept jazz musicians, probably in the entire world. And both are friends.


Any comments or advice are welcome.

Why not use a guitar>USB interface like this?

It's not just the interface, it's the software, too.

And your link is bad.


CJ

Try this Tascam US-100 USB 2.0 Audio Interface

I don't think that outputs MIDI data, so it won't achieve one of my goals.


To be able to input music by playing it, right into a MIDI-based editor, is going to be important to me.

The only thing I can think of is a one of the various Roland guitar synths. Of course you'll also need the special pickup you mentioned.

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I know this is a radical idea, but you might start out by going to the library and getting a book on music theory.

Seriously, you need to understand how scales and chords and modulations work and why they work the way they do. Until you understand this stuff, you won’t actually be a musician.

In a rehearsal two weeks ago, I found out that the trumpet player sitting next to me had no idea what key she was playing in or how to figure it out. She’s been playing for over 15 years, but she didn’t understand music at all. Our alto sax player couldn’t make the rehearsal and when this trumpet player saw me playing the alto solo (no problem, just read it in bass clef and adjust the key signature) she looked at me like I’d invented hyperdrive.

That’s just sad.

I'm way ahead of you. I'm studying theory and have been now for a while. On an academic level I have a good understanding of intervals,
scales, harmonization, modes, and some altered scales. I'm not so facile at actually putting my fingers on this stuff on the fingerboard, but
I'm getting it, slowly but surely.

I'm no longer quite so lost if I stumble upon two chords that sound good together. I can now analyze them and figure out what scales they fit into, and by harmonizing that scale, find additional chords that fit.

And, forget libraries. I just buy the appropriate books.

I'm taking lessons from two different teachers, both of whom are excellent technical players and also know the theory inside and out. One guy is
a hard rock player who played with UFO for a while, and the other guy is primarily a jazz player but he has composed and scored a fair number
of movies as well. His knowledge of theory is probably up there with the best theory guys in the world.


CJ

Good for you, CJ.

I have some older copies of Sibelius, Noteworthy Composer and Finale around here somewhere. PM me if you're interested.

I have figured out what I'm after in my quest to gain a musical education.



Music, simply put, is another language, as is English, French, Spanish, or any other spoken language.


But it is not a spoken language. It may include words, but it is not the language of speech.


It has an alphabet, and words, and spelling, and phrases, and grammar, and punctuation, and syntax, and many rules
that are analogous to the many rules of English or other spoken languages.

If by practice and study, one should learn all the fundamentals of music as well as you have learned to spell and compose
sentences in a grammatically correct manner, then you can create music in much the same manner that you can sit down
right now and write out a story out of your own imagination.


That is the goal.

I want to learn the language well enough to be able to do exactly that.

I do not want to be the musical equivalent of a parrot, speaking 30 phrases out of a limited vocabulary over a limited
I-IV-V 12 bar blues progression. I do not want to be a three chord rock and roller. I do not want to be the guy whose
musical knowledge stops at pentatonic scales and licks. I do not want to be the sort of "musician" whose entire repertoire
is rote memory and knows nothing of improvisation.


As per the recommendation of my new instructor, I am starting in a new music book: William Leavitt's "A Modern Method
for Guitar", volumes 1, 2 and 3, complete edition, Berklee Press, available via Amazon.com.

CM I think you're over complicating it, brudda. The best thing I can tell you about becoming guitar proficient is to remember the following: What would SRV do?

Stevie didn't read books. Stevie probably couldn't have told you any more about theory than you already know. Stevie learned by copying licks and playing variations of what he'd heard elsewhere with is own style added in. Jimi was the same way too. It worked for them, I believe it can work for any guitarist that's willing to put in the practice time.

Thanks for that perspective, but I'm going to learn everything I said as the musicians I most respect ALL are FULLY educated in all the fundamental and, having those tools, they are FREE. They are not limited to the usual bag of idioms, progressions,licks,fills, and tricks.

Good attitude.

I can remember playing in a “Drifters” band with a sax player who had 4 "canned" solos on tap. He didn’t pay any attention to the chord changes in the piece we were playing, he just picked a solo and played it. That’s not the kind of “musician” you want to be.

If you’re interested in improvisation, there are basically two ways to go about it.

You can study chord progressions and learn to follow those progressions, concentrating on staying within the chords.

Or, you can study chord progressions until you understand what’s going on in the music, then use your ear to allow you to play within the chords without being so tied into them that your improvisation is hampered.

It’s the difference between playing academically and playing what you feel.

Try this: Without using any sheet music, listen to a ballad and play one note on the first beat of each measure, using your ear to tell you what notes to play. When you can do that, play on the 1st and 3rd beat (assuming a four-beat measure), then play on every beat.

Pick a ballad and play the melody by ear until you can do it easily. Then play it in another key. Then another key and another. Do this with several ballads. This teaches you to hear intervals. Eventually, your brain will automatically know that, if you’re playing an Ab and you can hear that the next note is a major fifth higher, your fingers have to move to the right position to produce that Eb and you’ll do it without thinking.

Once you get this dialed in (and it takes a lot of time and work) you’ll be able to play any song in any key.

A good friend of mine has been a jazz musician (trumpet) for close to 60 years. He knows every piece of music he could possibly run across at a gig and what the changes are for all of them. He can play anything in any key.
I’ve heard rockers ask him how he can do it. His response is simple. “The horn doesn’t know what key it’s in”, he tells them.
What he’s really saying is, “If you have to ask me that question, you don’t know enough to understand the answer.”

Have fun.

More power to you sir! Stevie was a pretty versatile guitarist though. He incorporated jazz and country licks into his playing. "Riviera Paradise" is a good example. Wes Montgomery and George Benson learned from playing by ear and neither were formally educated in music. I would never knock anyone for learning music, even if it means you're "taking the long way around".

But they both knew their way around music. Wes certainly knew exactly what he was doing; what chords were being played, what the progressions were and how to write good music. Take a look at the changes in Wes' "S.O.S." He had a through understanding of music theory.

People who don't know theory and can't read or write music very well are known in the trade as "hummers". When they come up with a song, they go to a real musician, hum or play their stuff for him and the musician writes it down. The hummer pays the musician and leaves. The musician shakes his head and laughs.

This.

Well, I've taken some steps toward building up a music workstation for the furthering of my musical education.

I ponied up the money to buy Sibelius 7 Professional, and got a super bargain on a Roland MIDI keyboard controller that
has one bad key (Easily fixed) and this will allow me to directly input notes into Sibelius for creating backing tracks. And as
an added bonus, it means that I'll be learning to play the keyboard as well. Which shouldn't be that hard as there was a time
when I was a kid that I could actually play a little bit of piano.

The keyboard is by far the simplest instrument for comprehending intervals and chord construction. It's visual, and all right there
in front of you. Nothing to it, from that perspective. But I'm not even implying that it's the easiest instrument to master.

get a hex pickup and axon guitar synth

That Axon setup is certainly a viable option but some are no longer available new.

I could just get a roland GK III pickup system and install it on one of my guitars and use that with a comparable controller.

If I go down that route, though, I'll go one better and opt for a setup that is built to install INSIDE the guitar and adapt one of the guitars
I am currently building to hold that setup. I'm not a real big fan of having an electronics box attached to the outside of my guitar,
which would be the case with the Roland GK synth pickup systems.

It won't be long now before someone comes up with a hex pickup system and a compact controller package that outputs MIDI via USB
and it's all self contained within the guitar.

Somebody I know loaned me a keyboard today, said "Here, use it as long as you want. "

So I took it home and plugged it in.

It's a vintage Yamaha DX-11, a dated yet classic synthesizer.


I started to fart around with it a bit...and damn...playing keyboards is freaking EASY. Every bit of music theory I've learned
is laid out right there in front of me, in plain sight. Chords? Major, minor, fourth, diminished, augmented, seventh, ninth,
variations...no problem. Any chord I know, I can tap out on the keyboard as fast as I can think it. They're so easy to figure out
it isn't even funny. Play in C major, never touch a black key. Play in any other key, and it's easy to hear which notes don't belong.

Intervals are dead freaking simple.

I find it kind of alarming that I can do more with a keyboard in half an hour that I've been able to do with a guitar in 26 years,
at least in some respects.

I'm not about to give up the guitar. Far from it. I've just managed to show myself that I can put the theory I've learned into
practice. I just need to focus on adapting it correctly to the fretboard.


I guess that there's really no doubt anymore: Keyboard are the easiest instruments to learn, at least as far as the basics are concerned.

I'm able to use a keyboard to generate useful backing tracks right NOW, if I'm not in any hurry.


CJ

Piano for Quitters (don't laugh).

There is a Frank Gambale video out there, from the big hair days, where he goes through modal theory. You can probably download it, but if interested, and you can't find it, IM me. Its awesome and I have it on a flash drive.

Try playing in Dm and never touching a black key.

Then Emajor and never touch a black key.

Modal magic.

Well, my "music workstation" is coming along nicely.

I scored a Roland midi controller keyboard in need of a minor repair for just 25 bucks, and a MIDI to USB adapter for
six bucks plus shipping via Amazon. I fixed the bad key on the controller, plugged it into the PC, and Sibelius hooked right up to it
and it works perfectly. Now this is useful. It may not be guitar control over midi, but I can use this to write and record simple backing
tracks for me to practice over with very little effort. And it sounds GOOD.

I've decided that one of the guitars I've started to build will get a Roland internal GK-3 pickup kit in it. And then I'll have to buy a suitable
guitar synth with MIDI output to go along with it.

It'll be fun.

I use an Apogee ONE and I freaking love it. Dead simple actually more than adequate to make a near studio quality clean demo if you are a one mic/ one guitar kind of guy.

Edited to add: I may have misread your post. Are you looking for strictly a MIDI interface? If so, the Apogee isn't an option. Sorry CMJ. One day, I'd love to have one of your custom builds.

At this time I don't need a microphone. Certainly not to record my voice! Not MY voice. I have potential in a lot of ways, but
my voice is completely wrong for singing. I could make good money by telling people that if they pay me, I'll STOP singing!


I do not have a singing voice. And no amount of voice training could ever cure that.


I could mic a guitar amp, but actually I've found that my DI output from the amp I'm using now gives a great tone. In fact I feed
that output to my stereo system and the resulting tone is very, very close to exactly what I want to hear for some things.
I have a superb stereo system (Hardcore audiophile) and if it sounds right through that system, then the DI signal is very suitable
for direct recording without additional processing.


One thing I picked up is an M-Audio recording interface which, after learning to configure it, works extremely well and accepts guitar
and mic inputs directly. But it's not a midi converter. The package came with ProTools SE. So, that can be used to record a guitar
or mic input to ProTools and I can then mix it with Sibelius, whether internally or externally to an outboard mixing console. (Which
I have...I'm rebuilding a 24 channel Soundcraft mixer in my spare time.)




CJ

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