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The Pilatus PC-12 / U-28
2/21/2012 12:11:52 AM
I read this article today, and it got me thinking:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/u-s-special-ops-spy-plane-crashes-in-africa-killing-four/
Took a quick look at Wiki, and maybe its just me, but it seems this aircraft has had its share of catastrophic failures the past few years
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12
Quote:
Accidents and incidents
"On March 22, 2009, a PC-12/45 with the aircraft registration number N128CM, owned by the Eagle Cap Leasing of Enterprise, Oregon, crashed on approach to the Bert Mooney Airport in Butte, Montana.[18] The aircraft had departed from Oroville, California, and diverted from the original destination of Bozeman, Montana for unknown reasons. The NTSB recovered a computer memory chip from the aircraft that contained essential aircraft and engine performance data. From it, they concluded that icing in the fuel system had prevented the normally balanced flow of fuel from the wings. The pilot had delayed a precautionary landing until one wing was full of fuel and the other was empty, and then lost control of the PC-12 while maneuvering to land.[19] All 14 people on board were killed: one pilot and 13 passengers, seven of whom were young children.[20][21]
On July 5, 2009, a Pilatus PC-12 crashed in Rockbridge County, Va., after the pilot reported the loss of the instrument panel and subsequently requested vectors to get out of weather. The pilot, Daniel Dorsch, owner of Papa John's Pizza chain in Florida, Fun Bike Center of Lakeland, FL and former CEO of Checkers Drive-In Restaurants (1999–2003), his wife Cynthia Dorsch and at least two other passengers were killed. According to ATC, the pilot was flying above the max altitude of the aircraft at 31,000' when he reported his loss of the instrument panel.[22][23]
On July 24, 2009 the NTSB issued its preliminary report on the Rockbridge County, Va. accident. On July 25, 2009, the Roanoke Times published an analysis of the NTSB report subtitled Without being conclusive, it [the NTSB report] suggests failure of navigational instruments as the main cause. This article argues that the accident was caused not by the loss of a structural panel from the aircraft, as had been suggested by early accounts, but from the failure of the pilot's primary instrument panel. This failure, the author speculates, resulted in the pilot's becoming spatially disoriented, which consequently caused him to lose control of the aircraft.[24]
On February 8, 2011 at 4:31, a Pilatus PC-12 belonging to the South Africa Ceramics company, Italtile, disappeared from Air Traffic Control's radar. On Wednesday 9 February, wreckage believed to be that of the missing plane was found just off the shore of Robberg Nature Reserve, close to Plettenberg Bay. All on board, including the CEO of Italtile, were killed in the accident.[25][26]
On May 25, 2011 a PC-12 air ambulance en-route to New Delhi crashed in Faridabad killing all seven on board, as well as three people, all women from the same family, in a two-story residential building.[27][28]
On February 18, 2012 a U.S. Air Force U-28 crashed near Camp Lemonnier, Djibouti during a routine flight, killing all four Hurlburt Field-based Airmen aboard. [29]"
End Quote
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/u-s-special-ops-spy-plane-crashes-in-africa-killing-four/
Took a quick look at Wiki, and maybe its just me, but it seems this aircraft has had its share of catastrophic failures the past few years
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12
Quote:
Accidents and incidents
"On March 22, 2009, a PC-12/45 with the aircraft registration number N128CM, owned by the Eagle Cap Leasing of Enterprise, Oregon, crashed on approach to the Bert Mooney Airport in Butte, Montana.[18] The aircraft had departed from Oroville, California, and diverted from the original destination of Bozeman, Montana for unknown reasons. The NTSB recovered a computer memory chip from the aircraft that contained essential aircraft and engine performance data. From it, they concluded that icing in the fuel system had prevented the normally balanced flow of fuel from the wings. The pilot had delayed a precautionary landing until one wing was full of fuel and the other was empty, and then lost control of the PC-12 while maneuvering to land.[19] All 14 people on board were killed: one pilot and 13 passengers, seven of whom were young children.[20][21]
On July 5, 2009, a Pilatus PC-12 crashed in Rockbridge County, Va., after the pilot reported the loss of the instrument panel and subsequently requested vectors to get out of weather. The pilot, Daniel Dorsch, owner of Papa John's Pizza chain in Florida, Fun Bike Center of Lakeland, FL and former CEO of Checkers Drive-In Restaurants (1999–2003), his wife Cynthia Dorsch and at least two other passengers were killed. According to ATC, the pilot was flying above the max altitude of the aircraft at 31,000' when he reported his loss of the instrument panel.[22][23]
On July 24, 2009 the NTSB issued its preliminary report on the Rockbridge County, Va. accident. On July 25, 2009, the Roanoke Times published an analysis of the NTSB report subtitled Without being conclusive, it [the NTSB report] suggests failure of navigational instruments as the main cause. This article argues that the accident was caused not by the loss of a structural panel from the aircraft, as had been suggested by early accounts, but from the failure of the pilot's primary instrument panel. This failure, the author speculates, resulted in the pilot's becoming spatially disoriented, which consequently caused him to lose control of the aircraft.[24]
On February 8, 2011 at 4:31, a Pilatus PC-12 belonging to the South Africa Ceramics company, Italtile, disappeared from Air Traffic Control's radar. On Wednesday 9 February, wreckage believed to be that of the missing plane was found just off the shore of Robberg Nature Reserve, close to Plettenberg Bay. All on board, including the CEO of Italtile, were killed in the accident.[25][26]
On May 25, 2011 a PC-12 air ambulance en-route to New Delhi crashed in Faridabad killing all seven on board, as well as three people, all women from the same family, in a two-story residential building.[27][28]
On February 18, 2012 a U.S. Air Force U-28 crashed near Camp Lemonnier, Djibouti during a routine flight, killing all four Hurlburt Field-based Airmen aboard. [29]"
End Quote
2/21/2012 1:40:48 AM
If you ever get a.chance to see one on.approach.at night its pretty cool looks like a.UFO with all the lights
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
2/21/2012 8:21:56 AM
Rookie turbine airplane with rookie turbine results.(not to say all pc-12 pilots are rookies but it does attract the inexperienced) I am surprised many more haven't been wadded up. The logic of buying a 4.5 million dollar aircraft but being to cheap to operate a second engine is lost on me.
2/21/2012 9:25:08 AM
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:The logic of buying a 4.5 million dollar aircraft but being to cheap to operate a second engine is lost on me.
This...Give me a KingAir200 any day of the week.
2/21/2012 10:11:53 AM
There was one in central MO about ten years ago that "fell out of the sky" as well. I flew the accident investigators to the scene. They were thinking it was a prop reversal, but I don't think they ever really found out what happened.
2/21/2012 4:59:07 PM
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
Rookie turbine airplane with rookie turbine results.(not to say all pc-12 pilots are rookies but it does attract the inexperienced) I am surprised many more haven't been wadded up. The logic of buying a 4.5 million dollar aircraft but being to cheap to operate a second engine is lost on me.
Rookie turbine airplane with rookie turbine results.(not to say all pc-12 pilots are rookies but it does attract the inexperienced) I am surprised many more haven't been wadded up. The logic of buying a 4.5 million dollar aircraft but being to cheap to operate a second engine is lost on me.
reminds me of those piper meridians, lot of guys made questionable decisions influenced because they had a turbine
2/21/2012 8:45:15 PM
That first one seems a little unfair since the plane had 5 more people on board than it should have...Kids or not.
2/21/2012 9:20:10 PM
The mentality of a rich guy that can't take the time to get proper ratings, because they believe those are for underlings is strong in aviation. All too often its the rich guy in the toy that wads it up.
2/21/2012 11:12:52 PM
I fly King Airs and PC-12's. The PC-12 is a really great and rugged airplane. It will do things that a King Air can't do. It will operate fully loaded off the ground in 1500' and easily land in less than 1000'. It carries the same load as a 200 King Air at about 5 knots less speed on 70 gal/hour. It has cargo door and electric A/C for ground ops. It is certified for known icing. Hot windshields, props and boots. The engine is 1600 shaft HP flat rated at 1200.
We put 400 hours on our first one in the first year with zero mechanical problems operating out of a 3000' grass ranch strip. The owner previously owned a 350 King Air. While in Africa on a trip he and his wife rode in a PC-12. As soon as he got home he sold the 350 and bought a PC-12. He could not operate the 350 on his ranch strip. Two years ago 4th of July we put 42 hours on it in 5 days hauling 76 people in and out of a family reunion at Leadville.
It is a lot of airplane for a low time guy because of systems and avionics/auto-pilot. Air Force Special Ops uses them. I understand they have specially modified cargo doors so jumpers can throw themselves at the earth. I am assuming that they can also be landed at remote sites to recover the jumpers.
We put 400 hours on our first one in the first year with zero mechanical problems operating out of a 3000' grass ranch strip. The owner previously owned a 350 King Air. While in Africa on a trip he and his wife rode in a PC-12. As soon as he got home he sold the 350 and bought a PC-12. He could not operate the 350 on his ranch strip. Two years ago 4th of July we put 42 hours on it in 5 days hauling 76 people in and out of a family reunion at Leadville.
It is a lot of airplane for a low time guy because of systems and avionics/auto-pilot. Air Force Special Ops uses them. I understand they have specially modified cargo doors so jumpers can throw themselves at the earth. I am assuming that they can also be landed at remote sites to recover the jumpers.
2/22/2012 7:56:36 AM
Originally Posted By ElSupremo:
I fly King Airs and PC-12's. The PC-12 is a really great and rugged airplane. It will do things that a King Air can't do. It will operate fully loaded off the ground in 1500' and easily land in less than 1000'. It carries the same load as a 200 King Air at about 5 knots less speed on 70 gal/hour. It has cargo door and electric A/C for ground ops. It is certified for known icing. Hot windshields, props and boots. The engine is 1600 shaft HP flat rated at 1200.
We put 400 hours on our first one in the first year with zero mechanical problems operating out of a 3000' grass ranch strip. The owner previously owned a 350 King Air. While in Africa on a trip he and his wife rode in a PC-12. As soon as he got home he sold the 350 and bought a PC-12. He could not operate the 350 on his ranch strip. Two years ago 4th of July we put 42 hours on it in 5 days hauling 76 people in and out of a family reunion at Leadville.
It is a lot of airplane for a low time guy because of systems and avionics/auto-pilot. Air Force Special Ops uses them. I understand they have specially modified cargo doors so jumpers can throw themselves at the earth. I am assuming that they can also be landed at remote sites to recover the jumpers.
I fly King Airs and PC-12's. The PC-12 is a really great and rugged airplane. It will do things that a King Air can't do. It will operate fully loaded off the ground in 1500' and easily land in less than 1000'. It carries the same load as a 200 King Air at about 5 knots less speed on 70 gal/hour. It has cargo door and electric A/C for ground ops. It is certified for known icing. Hot windshields, props and boots. The engine is 1600 shaft HP flat rated at 1200.
We put 400 hours on our first one in the first year with zero mechanical problems operating out of a 3000' grass ranch strip. The owner previously owned a 350 King Air. While in Africa on a trip he and his wife rode in a PC-12. As soon as he got home he sold the 350 and bought a PC-12. He could not operate the 350 on his ranch strip. Two years ago 4th of July we put 42 hours on it in 5 days hauling 76 people in and out of a family reunion at Leadville.
It is a lot of airplane for a low time guy because of systems and avionics/auto-pilot. Air Force Special Ops uses them. I understand they have specially modified cargo doors so jumpers can throw themselves at the earth. I am assuming that they can also be landed at remote sites to recover the jumpers.
except fly with an engine out.....that's a pretty big matza ball right there. I have had to shut a PT-6 down in flight before, it was nice that it was an option to do so.
2/22/2012 9:56:41 AM
Pilots with a bigger checkbooks than logbooks.
2/22/2012 3:26:49 PM
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
except fly with an engine out.....that's a pretty big matza ball right there. I have had to shut a PT-6 down in flight before, it was nice that it was an option to do so.
except fly with an engine out.....that's a pretty big matza ball right there. I have had to shut a PT-6 down in flight before, it was nice that it was an option to do so.
It's an option in a PC-12, as well. You had just better have a hell of a plan B.
2/22/2012 3:30:30 PM
It's record is no worse than almost any other comparable turbine aircraft.
Of course, I grew up with MU-2s, so I automatically assume i's problems with pilots as opposed to airframes.
Of course, I grew up with MU-2s, so I automatically assume i's problems with pilots as opposed to airframes.
2/22/2012 8:50:48 PM
"Slim" flew the Atlantic Ocean in 1927 using 1 Wright J-5C "Whirlwind" reciprocating internal combustion airplane motor. If he had a PT-6 he would have been past the moon and prolly all the way to "your-anus" by now.
2/23/2012 12:06:38 AM
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
except fly with an engine out.....that's a pretty big matza ball right there. I have had to shut a PT-6 down in flight before, it was nice that it was an option to do so.
Originally Posted By ElSupremo:
I fly King Airs and PC-12's. The PC-12 is a really great and rugged airplane. It will do things that a King Air can't do. It will operate fully loaded off the ground in 1500' and easily land in less than 1000'. It carries the same load as a 200 King Air at about 5 knots less speed on 70 gal/hour. It has cargo door and electric A/C for ground ops. It is certified for known icing. Hot windshields, props and boots. The engine is 1600 shaft HP flat rated at 1200.
We put 400 hours on our first one in the first year with zero mechanical problems operating out of a 3000' grass ranch strip. The owner previously owned a 350 King Air. While in Africa on a trip he and his wife rode in a PC-12. As soon as he got home he sold the 350 and bought a PC-12. He could not operate the 350 on his ranch strip. Two years ago 4th of July we put 42 hours on it in 5 days hauling 76 people in and out of a family reunion at Leadville.
It is a lot of airplane for a low time guy because of systems and avionics/auto-pilot. Air Force Special Ops uses them. I understand they have specially modified cargo doors so jumpers can throw themselves at the earth. I am assuming that they can also be landed at remote sites to recover the jumpers.
I fly King Airs and PC-12's. The PC-12 is a really great and rugged airplane. It will do things that a King Air can't do. It will operate fully loaded off the ground in 1500' and easily land in less than 1000'. It carries the same load as a 200 King Air at about 5 knots less speed on 70 gal/hour. It has cargo door and electric A/C for ground ops. It is certified for known icing. Hot windshields, props and boots. The engine is 1600 shaft HP flat rated at 1200.
We put 400 hours on our first one in the first year with zero mechanical problems operating out of a 3000' grass ranch strip. The owner previously owned a 350 King Air. While in Africa on a trip he and his wife rode in a PC-12. As soon as he got home he sold the 350 and bought a PC-12. He could not operate the 350 on his ranch strip. Two years ago 4th of July we put 42 hours on it in 5 days hauling 76 people in and out of a family reunion at Leadville.
It is a lot of airplane for a low time guy because of systems and avionics/auto-pilot. Air Force Special Ops uses them. I understand they have specially modified cargo doors so jumpers can throw themselves at the earth. I am assuming that they can also be landed at remote sites to recover the jumpers.
except fly with an engine out.....that's a pretty big matza ball right there. I have had to shut a PT-6 down in flight before, it was nice that it was an option to do so.
The PC-12 will go pretty damn far and quick with its engine shut down. How far? All the way to the scene of the accident. How quick? You'll be the first one there!
2/24/2012 6:32:51 AM
Originally Posted By ElSupremo:
"Slim" flew the Atlantic Ocean in 1927 using 1 Wright J-5C "Whirlwind" reciprocating internal combustion airplane motor. If he had a PT-6 he would have been past the moon and prolly all the way to "your-anus" by now.
"Slim" flew the Atlantic Ocean in 1927 using 1 Wright J-5C "Whirlwind" reciprocating internal combustion airplane motor. If he had a PT-6 he would have been past the moon and prolly all the way to "your-anus" by now.
He also got a DFC for the trip. Risk assessment is everything.
2/24/2012 6:35:28 AM
Originally Posted By Toiyabe:
It's record is no worse than almost any other comparable turbine aircraft.
Of course, I grew up with MU-2s, so I automatically assume i's problems with pilots as opposed to airframes.
It's record is no worse than almost any other comparable turbine aircraft.
Of course, I grew up with MU-2s, so I automatically assume i's problems with pilots as opposed to airframes.
One dodgy thing I always enjoyed watching was PC12s blast out of Jackson Hole or Aspen because single engine climb gradients are for suckers.
I'd buy nearly every owner-operator and about 50% of professional 135 guys dinner if they actually computed climb gradients.
2/24/2012 8:55:37 AM
Well i had to come out of lurker status to defend this bird. 
I've been flying this airplane for over a year with over 1300 hours in it. Yes it does only have one engine, but its got a ton of power
with the reiliability of a pt6. Truly fun to fly and it will do just about anything you want it to( exept climb above 30,000ft or complete a vmc demo)
When i'm on the road i see more and more of them around and i can see why. i think that they will start to replace the roles of say the 208's and perhaps even kingair 200s
down the road.
Anyway the an opinion from a guy who's practically been living one since 2009. I know, i know, low post count and all that jazz.....
I've been flying this airplane for over a year with over 1300 hours in it. Yes it does only have one engine, but its got a ton of power
with the reiliability of a pt6. Truly fun to fly and it will do just about anything you want it to( exept climb above 30,000ft or complete a vmc demo)
When i'm on the road i see more and more of them around and i can see why. i think that they will start to replace the roles of say the 208's and perhaps even kingair 200s
down the road.
Anyway the an opinion from a guy who's practically been living one since 2009. I know, i know, low post count and all that jazz.....
2/24/2012 12:22:22 PM
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
One dodgy thing I always enjoyed watching was PC12s blast out of Jackson Hole or Aspen because single engine climb gradients are for suckers.
I'd buy nearly every owner-operator and about 50% of professional 135 guys dinner if they actually computed climb gradients.
Originally Posted By Toiyabe:
It's record is no worse than almost any other comparable turbine aircraft.
Of course, I grew up with MU-2s, so I automatically assume i's problems with pilots as opposed to airframes.
It's record is no worse than almost any other comparable turbine aircraft.
Of course, I grew up with MU-2s, so I automatically assume i's problems with pilots as opposed to airframes.
One dodgy thing I always enjoyed watching was PC12s blast out of Jackson Hole or Aspen because single engine climb gradients are for suckers.
I'd buy nearly every owner-operator and about 50% of professional 135 guys dinner if they actually computed climb gradients.
Guess im not getting fed ;)
2/24/2012 8:12:49 PM
NVM
