AR15.Com Archives
 Soldier (1998) starring Kurt Russell
SilentType  [Member]
9/23/2006 11:13:56 PM
Hey Folks,

Well the other day I was watching TNT and saw a Sci-Fi picture called "Solider" starring Kurst Russell about a man who along with others was selected at birth and raised to be this super uber specops warrior. Very interesting movie really and it caused me to recall some of the history channel Hitler Youth specials that I've seen in the past.

Would it even be possible to train a human from birth in the style done in the movie or would you end-up with a psychopath that would be unfit for military duty? The movie really got me thinking about whether it would be possible to train someone that long and still make them an independent thinker to solve problems on their own.

Anyways, would love to hear your thoughts about the movie if you have seen it and whether you think that it would be possible to train someone into a soldier starting from birth or if the human psychological make-up would prevent that from being a success?


MOVIE LINK www.imdb.com/title/tt0120157/
Alien  [Team Member]
9/24/2006 5:31:28 AM
I liked that movie. I actually bought it since it was only like $6 or so. It is cheesy at times, but I look past it.
jcncc  [Member]
9/24/2006 5:32:52 AM
Spartans?
SilentType  [Member]
9/24/2006 2:16:32 PM

Originally Posted By jcncc:
Spartans?


Good point...the Spartans did have youth military programs that started at a very young age. I'll have to look into that more.
RogerBall  [Member]
9/24/2006 3:27:58 PM
That was part of the training-to make them NOT be an independent thinker. Like when in boot camp they told us that to function properly we must become part of the team.
He was always conditioned to follow orders. Maybe to do a little thinking in so far as it met with his mission peramiters but no more, no less. That's why it was interesting when he got "discarded" and had to start making his own decisions.

Good movie.
efpeter  [Team Member]
9/24/2006 9:30:31 PM
I thought the tatoo on the cheek was a good idea.


TODD
O POS


I thought it was a good movie. Yes, cheesy at times, but worth seeing.
WildBoar  [Team Member]
9/24/2006 11:45:58 PM
The original short story in Heavy Metal magazine was much better. I cannot remember the name though, the that movie is a direct remake of the short story.
Maggot  [Team Member]
9/25/2006 12:51:08 AM
I liked it. My favorite line is ,


No, I am going to kill them all , Sir.
AvengeR15  [Member]
9/27/2006 11:17:28 AM

The movie is in fact quite cheesy, but I really enjoy it. Kurt Russell got himself in amazing shape for an older guy, and was perfectly cast as Todd.

The film is written 'in the Blade Runner universe' according to an article I read. One of the floating police cars from Blade Runner can be seen in the trash pile at one point, and one of the battles he fought in at the beginning is mentioned in Blade Runner as well.

I think the concept could definitely work, but only in super-secrecy. The American public would not long stand for brainwashing and baby-snatching, which is what the program amounted to.

pzjgr  [Member]
9/27/2006 5:12:07 PM
I love this movie, warts and all....

The "Old Ones" also wear Waffen SS Oak "B" cammo uniforms.....
Fox  [Team Member]
9/27/2006 5:22:28 PM

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
. . .snip
The film is written 'in the Blade Runner universe' according to an article I read. One of the floating police cars from Blade Runner can be seen in the trash pile at one point, and one of the battles he fought in at the beginning is mentioned in Blade Runner as well.
. . .snip


Tannhauser Gate.
SilentType  [Member]
9/27/2006 11:37:39 PM

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
The movie is in fact quite cheesy, but I really enjoy it. Kurt Russell got himself in amazing shape for an older guy, and was perfectly cast as Todd.

The film is written 'in the Blade Runner universe' according to an article I read. One of the floating police cars from Blade Runner can be seen in the trash pile at one point, and one of the battles he fought in at the beginning is mentioned in Blade Runner as well.

I think the concept could definitely work, but only in super-secrecy. The American public would not long stand for brainwashing and baby-snatching, which is what the program amounted to.



Russell was in amazing shape for a guy that old I wonder how long her had to prepare for the role and get in shape for the part? I'd love to see what his exercise routine was and diet leading up to the making of "Soldier."

I agree that most Americans would probably be up in arms if they ever found out about a program to raise perfect Spec-Ops soldiers and it would be impossible it seems in our political society to keep such a thing secret.
SilentType  [Member]
9/27/2006 11:40:41 PM

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
I love this movie, warts and all....

The "Old Ones" also wear Waffen SS Oak "B" cammo uniforms.....


Really? I thought they were wearing the old Austrian Military camo www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Photos14/austrian-camo-shirt-b.jpg I could be wrong.
Bohr_Adam  [Team Member]
9/27/2006 11:49:51 PM

Originally Posted By jcncc:
Spartans?


Beat me to it. That's always where I assumed the idea for that movie originated.

Of course, I also think the Star Wars prequel scenes showing the clone children's training borrowed heavily from the imagery of "Soldier." People have called me crazy for thinking so, so what do I know.
pzjgr  [Member]
9/28/2006 1:00:13 PM

Originally Posted By SilentType:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
I love this movie, warts and all....

The "Old Ones" also wear Waffen SS Oak "B" cammo uniforms.....


Really? I thought they were wearing the old Austrian Military camo www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Photos14/austrian-camo-shirt-b.jpg I could be wrong.


Nope, definitely Oak "B" go check out the ending of the movie....I don't recall earlier in the movie, but the uniforms at the end are definitely Waffen SS pattern camo....Just the "Old Ones" though.....
gks452  [Team Member]
9/28/2006 1:25:26 PM
The two problems I see with trying to train people like this is 1) it will be 18 years before you get your first soldier and 2) if there is a problem with your training method it will take years to determine what it is, to correct it and to get new properly trained troops.
No_Expert  [Team Member]
9/28/2006 1:53:06 PM
I bought that movie... I am a big Kurt fan and did enjoy the movie. YEs, there are a couple cheesy bits, but I think it had a high entertainment value.

Get the DVD, listen to the special features, the story of Kurt breaking his ankle and the restructure of the shooting schedule to finish the movie as well as the work he did to get in shape says alot about him.

No Expert
AvengeR15  [Member]
9/29/2006 8:10:19 PM

Russell took an entire year off from making films just to get in shape for this one. He did a lot of the stuff in training that he did in the film - climbing steel chains, boxing, etc.

One thing that always bothered me about the film is the scene where he is using the gasoline tank as a punching bag. Nothing wrong with that, I think it's cool as hell, but the gas tank is so obviously an inflated leather bag in the shots where his fists actually make contact, it's kind of embarassing.
SilentType  [Member]
9/30/2006 4:29:44 PM

Originally Posted By gks452:
The two problems I see with trying to train people like this is 1) it will be 18 years before you get your first soldier and 2) if there is a problem with your training method it will take years to determine what it is, to correct it and to get new properly trained troops.


You're probably right in terms of all the expense of training someone from birth like that, but than again look at how long they spend and how much they spend on high-tech weapon systems that don't always pan-out.

I 110% agree with your second point though that the first group of soldiers you'd be working in the dark as far as what would happen. You could have all the child developmental and psychological experts and still you're only working off theory really as few people outside of the Spartans (they started at ages 5-7) ever tried to raise soldiers from such a young age.

There is a part in the film where the boys are on an endurance run and one boy falls behind. A HMMV shows up, stops the kid, a man gets out, and you hear a shot suggesting that the kid has been killed. Now, if you were raising kids like that you couldn't really just let the ones that failed be adopted as they may be very dangerous and you couldn't risk someone learning of an operation like that. In the end I think that is where it would fail, a soldier isn't going to kill a kid.


SilentType  [Member]
9/30/2006 4:34:02 PM
Here is a link to a cool fan video made by a Soldier in Iraq with the movie Soldier edited and set to Chevelle's "The Red".

I thought it was pretty well done.

Link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kw_2iV-0nM
ProfGAB101  [Team Member]
9/30/2006 6:03:29 PM
I had a copy of the script before it was made. ( say circ 86 )

At one point they had wanted to cast stallone but the project got shelved due to a really high CGI cost estimate.
Bumblebee_Bob  [Team Member]
10/1/2006 5:07:18 PM

Originally Posted By SilentType:

There is a part in the film where the boys are on an endurance run and one boy falls behind. A HMMV shows up, stops the kid, a man gets out, and you hear a shot suggesting that the kid has been killed. Now, if you were raising kids like that you couldn't really just let the ones that failed be adopted as they may be very dangerous and you couldn't risk someone learning of an operation like that. In the end I think that is where it would fail, a soldier isn't going to kill a kid.




I have the movie also. Enjoy watching it every so often.

I take it that it's officers who killed the kid that fell behind. Not other soldiers. But on the other hand, these soldiers may indeed kill a kid if he doesn't measure up. Kurt's character doesn't hesitate to shoot the hostage that an enemy combatant is hiding behind to get that enemy soldier. It's all a part of doing buisiness to him.

Also in the scene with the kids running have you noticed how much the flag bearer looks like a young Kurt Russell must have looked like. It's because he's Kurt's son Wyatt.
clasky  [Team Member]
10/3/2006 12:30:39 AM
Fun Fact:

Kurt Russell was paid by the word. IIRC, he only said about 74 words the whole film and I think it was $10,000/word.

sigh