Challenger R/T owners - weigh in!

Evening, all! I come seeking advice and some information from owners.

I have a problem. It stems mostly from the bad habit of smoking. I've done it for about 15 years now, and I really, really want to stop. So, I'm looking for a goal to help clear myself of it.

The plan (no matter how ill-adivsed it may sound) is to stop smoking for a minimum of 6 months, preferably closer to a year. Then, reward myself with a brand new car.

I currently drive a 2008 Kia Optima - base model, 2.4L I-4, 5-speed manual. She runs about 27MPG overall, and has largely been a trouble-free, though bland car. For the most part, I get my kicks from my motocycles (all 3 of them), but I think I'm ready to try to enjoy driving again, an activity I've pretty much loathed for the past 10 years or so. I've regained my interest in cars and driving a bit as of late, and I figure (again, take it for what it's worth) that I could kill two birds with one stone here - give myself a reward for dropping a bad habit, as well as having a car that's fun, something I haven't had a whole lot of since I sold my Mazda 6S a few years back.

All of this aside, I'm looking for input from actual Dodge Challenger R/T owners here, as I consider the R/T my "apex" car. One could theoretically be had for just under $30,000 (bereft of "crap" - dumb options that I'll never use), offers a meaty engine, and can be had with a manual trans, something I consider a must-have. Auto-only is a deal-breaker, and I've dropped a lot of cars from consideration because of this.

The equipment seems well and good, but I have concerns revolving around a few possible issues. First off is fuel economy. Now, I understand a 4200-lb. tank with a large engine isn't going to sip gas, or even break the 25-MPG barrier. But what do folks with the 6-speed Challengers actually attain in day-to-day, non-leadfoot driving? The other big question - how do they behave in the winter? This would be an only-car for me, and seeing as how we can't ride for 5 months out of the year, the car must be able to be fitted with snow shoes and likely a cheap set of steelies to cope with shitty driving conditions. Is there any issue finding wheels that will fit without interfering with what I would assume to be fairly large rotors and calipers? Lastly, is the shifter - no 6-speed R/Ts were available on display at our auto show this year. Just the $50k+ SRT models - and the shifters in those cars was a horrifyingly sloppy affair that frankly made the shifter in my Kia feel like the bolt assembly out of my K-31 in comparison - not flattering. I've got one acquaintance whose dad has a manual-trans R/T that doesn't indicate the shifter is poor at all, but was wondering about the consistency.

I've got other standbys in case I don't want to chuck the money (and fuel!) at a beast like this - Mazdaspeed3, Genesis Coupe, Mustang V6, and a few others are pretty appealing as well. But that Challenger in bright orange has kinda grabbed me. You know how it is...

I bought a '11 R/T Plus automatic last November. I ended up trading it in for a '12 R/T Classic 6-speed last month. I thought I could be happy with an automatic but decided that I had to have a manual. I couldn't be happier and love rowing through the gears now.

It's the blackberry pearl paint with black side stripes.



I have kept track of every fill up and I have averaged 15.7mpg. I don't leadfoot it everywhere but I love driving it too. Mostly city driving. Some people on one of the Challenger forums are saying they are getting up to 25mpg with highway driving. I haven't experienced that but I haven't really done any long highway driving either.

I don't know how they behave in the winter, we don't have that issue here in central TX. You could always just get some Challenger police steel wheels with winter tires. Edit: police steel wheels are available but finding other wheels won't be a problem.

I didn't think the stock shifter on mine was horribly sloppy but I recently swapped it out for a Hurst shifter. Big improvement with much better and shorter shifts. Pro tip - if you end up getting one and install a Hurst shifter, reuse the stock rear shifter mount instead of the supplied Hurst mount unless you want to hear tons of driveline noise transmitted through the cabin.

Anyway, I love my Challenger. It's a great cruiser that has a large usable trunk, plenty of interior space with enough room to get 3 adults inside easily, and plenty of power. It's the slowest compared to the Camaro SS and Mustang GT but IMO it's by far the best looking and it's nice to not see one on every street corner. My neighbor across the street got rid of his Mustang and bought an SRT because of my first R/T. He was hooked too.

I got both for invoice minus whatever rebate they had at the time which came out to ~$35K for each car but both were pretty much loaded. If you get one, I highly recommend getting one with the Super Track Pack (STP) which gets you the 3.92 gears, slightly better suspension, and the ability to completely turn off traction control.

very nice big heavy cars with emphasis on big and heavy. If you like light nimble quick steering cars, get the Speed3. If will do 99.9% of what you need out of it, but it won't quite grab the heart strings like an american v8. Test drive the speed3 and let us know what you think. Insurance is cheaper, gas mileage is better, tire wear is better, and the thing flat out moves. Myself, I like the Mustang GT better than both.


ETA: read the Subaru WRX thread, each and every single one of those guys will be salivating looking for you.

I have a 2010 R/T Classic 6-speed. I average 22-23mpg driving 70% highway miles to/from work. So, 25mpg might be achievable with an extended highway full-to-empty trip.

With the factory tires, this car is terrible in the snow. No traction at all. It’s a function of too much power, clutch, suregrip diff, and no weight in the rear that gets you. If you put snow tires and a few hundred more pounds in the trunk you might get by, but I have a 4WD pickup truck and parked the Challenger from Dec to April this past winter.

I agree with Dynamo, the stock shifter is not horrible. I’ve thought about putting in the Hurst, but didn’t want more drive line noise.

I too love my Challenger. The R/T has plenty of power as long as you’re not wishing to race those light weight Mustangs. Hung up behind a slow driver, drop it into third and you’ll be doing 80mph quick, nice for passing, makes me smile every time.

Mine has almost every option, it stickered for $42k. Furious Fuchsia with a white pearl leather interior. The dealer had several on the lot and I got it below invoice plus rebates. It’s a chick magnet, not that that is a benefit to me. (Being an old married guy).

Here's a link to a pic, (not mine)
http://www.lovelyundergrad.com/2010/05/furious-fuchsia.html

If you reuse the stock rear shifter mount the Hurst shifter is as quiet as stock. When I installed mine I used the supplied Hurst mount that has a much harder bushing. It was like a stethoscope and transmitted a ton of driveline noise and vibrations through the transmission tunnel. It was unbearable for me. I promptly swapped it out with the stock mount (which has a softer rubber bushing) and it was quiet just like stock again. The chrome stick with white ball looks cool too.

Great looking ride man!

Awesome input so far, folks.

Gorgeous car, Dynamo. Shouldn't be tough to figure out why I like them. I wasn't a fan of the design at first, though, but it grew on me over the course of a few years. It mostly appeals to me because it seems like a good 'everyday' car, relative to the Mustang (whose V6 seems like a great performance/economy compromise) or Camaro (which I dislike). More trunk space, and seating for 4 actual people seem like good things to have sometimes. Stoplight racing isn't my goal - I just enjoy vehicles that make movement seem effortless. The Challenger just seems like one of those cars to me. Razor-sharp handling isn't a big deal, either, and I'd sacrifice a bit of it for better touring capability and comfort. I'd like 'enough' go and 'enough' handling, and a well-refined ride to go with it.

I could do 19-22MPG overall - no worse than a contemporary minivan or mid-sized SUV. If my average was down in the 15-17MPG range, though, I'd have to pass, and I'd probably move on to the GenCoupe or MS3. So, I wanted as large a cross-section of people to hear from as possible. I've been scanning the Challenger boards now and again, too. Seems to vary wildly from driver to driver and from car to car. Makes sense, given the engine's displacement.

Thanks for the suggestion on the Charger police steelies - I'd have never thought of that!

The 6-Speed challengers R/T's with the 18" wheel tire combo does a little better in MPG's because it only has a 3.73 gear instead of the 3.91 that comes with the 20" and lower unsprung weight. The Super track packs get auto leveling rear shocks, beefier rear brakes and something else. Better yet, you could add 20's to the 3.73 gear and drop it even further for lower cruising rpms.

The Hurst shifter really cleans up the shifter linkage. I have it in my SRT and it was my first mod. You can even use the stock pistol grip shifter if you don't like the Hurst Ball. Like someone posted, the stock mount deadens the noise.

The only thing I don't like about the 6-speed R/T's is they can't hit 60 in 2nd gear. You have to shift to 3rd.

The auto's are quicker and faster at the track btw and with MDS they get about the same fuel economy. The final gear is .60 or .70 vs. the 6-speed's .50, I can't remember :(

Just info. I personally went with the 6-speed in my SRT because I like rowing gears. Plus, at my power level I can beat ANY stock production car on the planet in the 1/4 so who cares!

Repeater,
Several years ago, I used a similar method to help me quit smoking. I tried and failed to quit smoking several times. However, I finally made an internal declaration to myself that I was no longer going to smoke and that failing to quit was not an option. Once I did that, it really wasn't unbearably hard to quit. I quit cold turkey in May, 2008 and haven't had a single puff of a cigarette since that time. I will never smoke again. Part of my motivation was a deal I made with myself that if I was truly able to quit, I would buy myself a new motorcycle.

I post this because I can relate to your situation and in hindsight it was one of the best decisions I ever made.

Like you get good gas mileage!

Are the yellow Bilstein shocks auto leveling? My '12 R/T with STP came with them on all four corners but I don't see anything on them that would indicate them being auto-leveling. However my '11 R/T with STP had black shocks which I thought were the Sachs but I don't know if they were the auto-leveling shocks (Nivomats, correct?). A quick google search makes it sound like there isn't any specific requirement to getting one or the other.

Also, my '11 was an automatic with the MDS. I grew to really dislike it. I became somewhat annoying having it kick in all the time (unless in autostick mode) and it sounds absolutely horrible with an aftermarket exhaust.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/dodge/challenger


This should give you some real world fuel numbers to look at with different options.

I did something similar this year, wanted to stop smoking cigars while in my truck (1+ hour one way commute). Bought the new truck a year before I was scheduling to do so. It's been smoke freee inside the Ram for 7 months now. I never have smoked in my Challeger, no F'n way.

This is the first time Ive ever heard this. The manuals make more HP and torque, with the 3.92 rear end Super Track pack, I would expect them to be faster? In Edmunds the manual equipped Challenger R/T went from zero to 60 mph in 5.5 seconds, the automatic was 5.8 seconds.

My understanding is that 6-speed Challengers have torque management, timing is pulled at each shift for a brief moment so you're not getting full power. Supposedly it is meant to help protect the drivetrain. Plus the automatics have naturally quicker shifts so all together it means they are slightly quicker.

Doesn't matter to me. I've had both (currently have a 6-speed) and the manual is so much more fun that I couldn't care less about not being as quick.

interesting

Very interesting. I hadn't heard anything about it before, so it must be a pretty transparent system?

I would not have known about it if I had not read about it. On one of the Challenger message boards there was a discussion with the SRT engineers and an owner that had been data logging his drag runs noticed it and asked them about it. They confirmed it. Everything else I have read confirms it to included ET's that consistently show automatics to be quicker.

I wouldn't let it sway anyone from getting one though. The 6-speed cars still move along just fine and are way more fun to drive (IMO of course).

The 6-speed cars have a few problems compared to the auto's.

1st - the clutch triggers a massive timing reduction to 4.5* as part of torque management to protect the driveline. It takes nearly a full second to rebuild the timing. Also the wireless throttle body slams shut when the clutch is activated - even if its a no lift shift. The timing has been confirmed by data logs and the throttle body has been confirmed via cameras and data logs.

2nd - Non Super Track pack R/T's have the worst wheel hop on the planet. I am talking violent you think the whole engine is jumping out of the car bad. The rear suspension cradle bushings are about as stiff as play dough and the whole rear suspension jumps around like its in the electric chair. The STP cars are much better and the SRT's have pretty much eliminated it with the 2012 suspension changes. This makes launching a R/T very tricky. 2.0+ 60' times are common even with DR's on manual r/t's with seasoned racers. The auto's are stupid easy to launch. Brake torque it 1500 rpm to set the ECM for an aggressive launch instead of fuel economy. Mash and go. This phenomenon has been confirmed by camera. The aftermarket has stepped up to help this with companies such as Hop-not. Only the STP's and SRT's get full ESP disable as well. If you don't check that box, the best you can do is 50% disable and it might as well be nothing. You will bog, every single time. If you rev it higher you will hop. - Sorry. I have seen it at dozens of hemi races and it happens all the time.

The Mercedes 5 speed auto, the NAG1 (w5a580) shifts fast (200ms seen in data logs) in sport mode. Data logging has shown Even Ronnie Sox can't shift a manual as fast as the new auto. It can also take stupid horsepower with just blue tops and a convertor.

The gear ratio spread is not has wide as people think. True the 6-speed with 20" gets the 3.91 gear, but the Tremec gear ratios where picked by an idiot. 1st gear is only 2.97-1, 2nd is 2.10, 3rd is 1.46 and 4th is of course 1-1. Lets not forget that the 6-speed requires 3 gear changes to get through the 1/4, it goes through the traps in 4th. ( Remember the timing issues) The R/T cannot hit 60 in 2nd gear because it only has a 5700rpm redline, the auto can hit almost 70 or so in 2nd so thats one less gear change. (The SRT manual can also hit 60 in 2nd.)

Back to gear ratios, the auto gets a 1st 3.59, 2nd 2.19, 3rd 1.41 and goes through the 1/4 in 3rd gear.

So 1st gear with the manual is a 11.61-1 final drive
1st gear with the automatic is a 10.99-1 final drive (3.06 axle)

Now, I have personal experience with both.

I had an 09 R/T Track pack 6-speed that I sold for a 2010 SRT8 6-speed. I also regularly race my in-laws 2011 auto R/T and it is boring to launch a race, but its easy and consistent.

The top 50 list of time slipped track times is dominated by auto's because they can get the power down and keep it down and they get super fast full throttle shifts. In fact, I believe that I am the only 6 speed Hemi car to break into the nines and it took me 1300 horsepower to do it because of the timing issue and the fact that I lose all boost between shifts because of the throttle body programming. If I had an auto, I would already be in the 8's. There are only 2 6-speed cars in the 10's and a ton of Kenne belle and maggie supercharged stroker 6-speeds stuck in the 11's.

That being said, get the manual. Its a lot more fun and if you are looking for an all out drag champion, this car is not the one you are looking for. It is a super comfy cruiser, well appointed, quicker than many other cars out there and a few .10's in the 1/4 is not that big a deal. Its a solid 13 second car that doesn't require the owner to drop the clutch at 5000+rpm.

Nobody ever says "sweet, you got the auto!"

Enjoy your LC, check the LX/LC boards and read up, I have been doing the Challenger game since the 6-speeds first came out in 09 and have seen the issues first hand. Remember the auto's have been racing and learning since 2005.

I can't find a timing log, but here is a throttle position log that was done on a 6-speed. The flat line is zero position. The timing log looks the same.

Super track pack manuals are supposed to get the black bilstein auto leveling shocks. The autos get the yellow Nivomats. There was a time when Dodge was either short on shocks or got confused themselves and the wrong ones were specd on the build sheets. You should have this shock with the STP with a Manual, but Chrysler also announced they were getting auto leveling shocks from Sachs. (Should have Chrysler log on them Sachs label.) Its been rather confusing. As long as you don't have Nivomats in the back you are GTG, black shocks are what you are looking for with STP.

I have a brand spankin new 2012 Blue Streak Pearl RT 6 speed and the Super Track Pack (like hit 200 miles on the odometer today new). IMO this is the best combination, all the go-fast stuff and better suspension, 3.92 gears and 20" chrome clad wheels. On top of being the best looking car currently made, she goes like all hell and handles pretty good for something out of Detroit! Only thing I intend to change is the shifter, I test drove one with the hurst and while the stock one isn't bad, the hurst is far and away better (and its a Challenger, it HAS to have a pistol grip!). My old lady calls it "The Beast" because when you get into it she claims it sounds like it wants something to hunt down and kill , and when I let her drive it she had this stupid grin on her face the whole time, so its all win! FYI she has a 2004 Mini Cooper GP, only 1 of 415(?) that made it to the U.S., shes taken lessons to race it and can drive, she LOVES my car!

Here is what my R/T has (just took these pics):




It definitely has STP too as it is listed on my window sticker and I can completely turn off the traction control by holding down the traction control button (EVIC says it is disabled).

I found some info from this thread that seems to indicate that I have the shocks that I am supposed to have. The number on the rear shock in my pic above matches what is listed for '12 STP cars. I guess the only question left is are they auto-leveling.

SDE= STP
SDX=SRT8
SDD=R/T
SDC=Touring
SMC=Adaptive Damping


2010

SHOCK ABSORBER KIT Suspension,Rear Trans
SDX 05039355AG
SDC 68034901AA
SDD 68034903AA DGJ DGV
SDD 68071745AA DEC
SDX 68071745AA2

2012

SHOCK ABSORBER,Suspension,Rear
SDE 05039356AF
SDC 68072161AD
SDD 68072163AC

SHOCK ABSORBER,Suspension,Rear
SDX,SMC 05181558AC LEFT
SDX,SMC 05181576AC RIGHT

Guess they are doing yellow Bilsteins now to confuse everyone even more!

They are auto-leveling so you are good to go!

OP, as added incentive, take the money you would be spending on packs of cigarettes and set it off to the side. Don't skimp and say "I'm not smoking so I'll use the $$ elsewhere..." Put it off to the side and don't spend it.

When your 6 or 12 month self imposed probation has passed, you'll have some money either for a down payment or for some extras.

Good luck on quitting smoking!

Great Car and I had no complaints.

STP 6 Speed Classic R/T.

Handled great, great great great road trip car.

I had traded my seldom used 2003 Mach 1 5-speed for it in 2010 (8K in 7 years) and was my first Mopar except for Jeeps



I ended up getting rid of it after a year for a 2nd JK Jeep when Chrysler released the new off the chain good 3.6 motor in the platform for 2012. What can I say, the Jeep thing is a disease.

I loved the car but, it was another garage queen that I seldom used and was over paranoid when driving or parking. When a rock flew up off some damn hillbilly's turd wagon and dented the A-Pillar I decided I was done with cars I'm paranoid about.

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