HARP refinance?

I got an unsolicited offer from my mortgage servicer (Citi) to do a HARP refinance. I'm in a condo, about 20% underwater, based on market, but excellent credit.
They're offering me about a 4.25% rate for a 30 year, less for a 20, and the lady on the phone told me there were no fees (!!!).

Has anyone done this? Did you get a "no fee" deal? Or are they hiding the fees in the interest rate?

I am probably going to take them up on it, because it would save me over $100/month on my mortgage, assuming there are in fact no big closing costs.

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OP: This sounds somewhat close to a modification. Modifications, by nature, can't charge any fees, since they're designed to help people who bought at the wrong time, and got screwed by the housing collapse.

That said, your current lender reaching out to you does lend credence to the HARP refi option. Because they're the ones who'd eat a shit sandwich if you decided to walk away, they could very well have decided to offer you a lower rate as an incentive to not saddle them with a condo in one of the worst real estate markets since the 80s, or the great depression, depending on who you ask.

Your excellent credit, and you continuing to make payments even thought you're u/w, your mortgage company has probably flagged you as a "good borrower", who is low-likelihood of default, but whose credit could allow them to strategically default, as it's called in the mortgage industry-basically, you pay your bills, you're good with credit, and you're not over-extended. That said, you're smart with money, and they don't want to risk you deciding *fuck it* and walking away. So, they offered you a sweetener.

The KEY POINTS here are:
1) play nice with the salesperson, be interested, and answer their questions (if you're an asshole to me, I can be quite the asshole back. If you're nice to me, I bend over backward to get you exceptions and credits off costs)
2) ask said salesperson to send you a GFE (good faith estimate) on the loan they're offering (Make sure to emphasize how great this sounds, but you're a numbers guy, and you just wanna see the numbers on paper)
3) if they're offering principal forgiveness (sounds like not applicable here, but if they are)...written letter, signed by supervisor of person promising things. If it's a legit offer, might take a day to get a manager to put pen to paper. If it takes longer than 3 days..'.either your agent is a) a pussy b) promised more than he can deliver, or c) they never wanted to offer it anyway

#4 God help me for sharing this, but google your state's mortgage/bank/insurance/financial institutions regulator. Keep that number handy (we'll cover this later). State laws differ, but by and large, they all frown on bait and switch. Your initial disclosure package will include a bunch of boring forms...the relevant forms are 1) the Good Faith Estimate, 2) the 1003 (loan application), and the 3) 1008 (loan summary form). The GFE form is self-explanatory, it says it at the top of the 3 page disclosure. The 1003 and 1008 will be designated on the bottom right of each page of the relevant form––ie, bunch of boxes, numbers, etc...bottom right of the page will say "Form 1003", page 1 of 5...for example

Your lender, or a reputable one, should be willing to provide a 1008 on request. Any delay on providing any of these forms is unacceptable––they're federal forms, and if they're stalling, there's a reason.

Now, between these 3 forms, you have 1) the assumptions (ESPECIALLY CONCERNING ESTIMATED APPRAISED VALUE), 2) the rate offered based on the terms entered (1008 is good summary for this), and 3) the GFE is a legally binding offer from the lender (ie, provided your credit score is xyz, and your credit score is abc ) , assuming the information you provided is accurate, your ending fees/rates can only go down.

Now we get back to where I told you to write the Sate Regulator's number down...if your terms magically change, or "underwriters see more risk", or whatever, and your fees/rate go up, but the appraised value/credit score come in where expected-you're getting boned. So, here's where you drop the magic words "Acting in bad faith" and "bait and switch" and "what is your individual identifier" (everyone who takes applications or processes mortgages needs one of these, by federal law). This will put a cold chill in their spine

One thing to note-if yo tell me your credit is "excellent" and it comes in at 680 (barely 50th percentile), then yes, costs will change. That said, a good lender should immediately inform you of your credit scores, and then explain, the new rate/terms/costs accordingly. They should verify your credit score within an hour of placing an appraisal, if they haven't before.

Also, our company records all of our calls, mainly to make sure we (the agents) quote what's accurate. We're one of the few companies that do, because it's a legal liability, frankly, but every word that I say on the phone, I can pull up a record of. We're somewhere inb the top 5 mortgage lenders in the country that's not one of the banks that advertise on tv. So, I lose a lot of business because I'm not quoting .25% interest rate lower than the no-point rate, and then magically making up reasons for the numbers to go up later. That said, if someone cries foul and says I baited and switched them, when we lay out all the costs and assumptions that determine the rate/costs, in email and a plain lock agreement, it doesn't fly.

That said, we're unique in being upfront, and it gets us fucked, often. I can literally send the recording of the call to a borrower in 5 minutes if they want. And we obviously inform our customers within the first minute of the call.

SO, right now, rates are ridiculously low, and we're all working off roughly the same rates, but I'm pretty sure that we're the only company that records our calls...so when I hear "oh, you're way high, I've been offered a 3.75% 30 year, cash out loan, 80% loan to value" and then you hang up on me, well, just know that 1) I hang my head and sigh, and 2) wish the motherfuckers who tell me to shove my "way high" rates would call me back around closing and tell me they ended up signing on the terms I laid out from the get go. But, by the end closing, people are so beat down, and just want to have their new, better loan, that they just eat it.

Please, guys, ask for these documents upfront––then, if anyhing changes, you can rake their nuts over the fire in front of the state mortgage regulator, AND provide documents, from them showing: Borrower told me a,b, c, d, and we send them the GFE based on a, b, c, d. When A,b, c, d are true, why is ending number different from starting number.

I am not a lawyer, nor am I intending or implying that I am giving legal advice...but I've had a few bourbons, and I ,figured I'd just lay out the whole ugly beast.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack blood_donor

Doing a "no cost" refinance involves taking a slightly higher rate and getting a credit to cover the closing costs.
Right now the difference is only .375% or so.
That might be only $20 higher on a $150,000 loan but you would save thousands in closing costs.

Bump.. good info. Thanks.

My quoted rate was almost 2 full percent lower.

Mortgageboss––I know about no-cost refinances, my previous mortgage company had the ability to do them as well. Between Dodd-Frank cutting fees and limiting credits, and then being acquired by a larger company in the middle of that, I hadn't known that many correspondent lenders had that as a readily available option. My company might just be finnicky on that.

Out of curiosity, are you on the broker, correspondent/warehouse, or bank side of things?

While no cost mortgages are great, and certainly better than paying a boatload in fees/points/etc, one thing to consider is that .375%, depending on the loan amount, could well be $40-100/month.

Or $480-1200 extra a year for taking a higher interest rate. If costs were 3k, but you didn't want to have costs, and took a higher rate instead, well, depending on when/if you sell your house, you could end up paying more over the long term through a higher interest rate. Now, that interest is tax-deductible, but I doubt it's going to offset the costs of a higher rate beyond the life-of-loan costs for the higher interest rate.

Every refinance or purchase is different, because there's different wrinkles, challenges, issues etc... so, everything's different, and special, and there's pluses and minuses to every option out there-just wanted to spread some knowledge and hopefully help some people out

Vengarr, was that on a 30 year fixed loan? HARP refi or modification? If that's a par rate for a normal refinance for a company, well, I think I need to polish up my resume and look for an apartment where they're located

That was a harp refi 30 year fixed.

Hot shit then man, well done. No sarcasm at all, that's a great deal.

Ok I was dead wrong. This is not a HARP loan. It is an FHA streamline refinance loan. I called in about my escrow account and they said hey take a look at this new FHA backed loan.

here is a link

Streamline Your FHA Mortgage
FHA has permitted streamline refinances on insured mortgages since the early 1980's. The "streamline" refers only to the amount of documentation and underwriting that needs to be performed by the lender, and does not mean that there are no costs involved in the transaction. The basic requirements of a streamline refinance are:

The mortgage to be refinanced must already be FHA insured.

The mortgage to be refinanced should be current (not delinquent).

The refinance is to result in a lowering of the borrower's monthly principal and interest payments.

No cash may be taken out on mortgages refinanced using the streamline refinance process.


Lenders may offer streamline refinances in several ways. Some lenders offer "no cost" refinances (actually, no out-of-pocket expenses to the borrower) by charging a higher rate of interest on the new loan than if the borrower financed or paid the closing costs in cash. From this premium, the lender pays any closing costs that are incurred on the transaction.

Lenders may offer streamline refinances and include the closing costs into the new mortgage amount. This can only be done if there is sufficient equity in the property, as determined by an appraisal. Streamline refinances can also be done without appraisals, but the new loan amount cannot exceed the original loan amount. Investment properties (properties in which the borrower does not reside in as his or her principal residence) may only be refinanced without an appraisal.

Detailed instructions to the lenders are contained in HUD Handbook 4155.1 REV-4, Change-1, Paragraph 1-12.

Contact your lender to get started. You can find your lenders contact information by clicking on our List of approved lenders.

That makes a little more sense, thanks for the clarification-while I understand what you're talking about now on a FHA Streamline, I'm going to hold off on replying until I can explain it to where other people can understand me (damn bourbons)

I'm looking into one of these. It knocks off around 2 percentage points.

I can save 175/mo and drop 2 years or I can save 400/mo and go up 3 years on the term.

Through my original lender and no appraisal.

[qMortgageboss––I know about no-cost refinances, my previous mortgage company had the ability to do them as well. Between Dodd-Frank cutting fees and limiting credits, and then being acquired by a larger company in the middle of that, I hadn't known that many correspondent lenders had that as a readily available option. My company might just be finnicky on that.

Out of curiosity, are you on the broker, correspondent/warehouse, or bank side of things?[/quote]

Hi Rowdy Yankee,
I'm on the banker side, now. Was a broker for years, but it just go too hard to remain one.
We have some pretty generous credits avaialable, so most of my refi clients are going with the "no cost" option.

In my area, home values got slammed 40% or more, so VA and FHA streamlines are the only real viable refi options sice there's no new appraisal required.
We'll see in March if the HARP 2.0 turns out to be a help for homeowners.
I hope so, but I've seen so many special programs end up being a bunch of hype.

What is this HARP 2.0?

Its what we're calling the new version of the Home Affordable Refinance Program.

HARP was approved in the last days of the Bush administration and went into affect in Jan. 2009.

It allows homeowners who owe more than their home is worth to refinance into lower rate mortgages.
It would allow a home owner to be up to 25% "underwater" and still refinance.
There were so many restrictions that it ended up helping only a small fraction of who it was intended to help.

The new revision,HARP 2.0, removes the 125% cap. It doesne't matter how far under your value is to your current mortgage balance.
It also removes a lot of the pricing adjustments of Harp 1.0. that kept many home owners from getting the lowest rates.

Your loan must be a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac loan.
It must have been transferred to Fannie or Freddie prior to June 1st of 2009.
You must be current on your payments for the last 6 months.

There are other guidelines, but those are the big ones.
The first thing to do is to see if Fannie or Freddie own your loan.
Google " does fannie mae own my loan?" and you will see the look up site. The same for Freddie Mac.

Now, if you have an FHA, VA, or RD loan, you already have th ability to refinance without an appraisal, its called a "streamlined refinance".

I hope this helps.

Thanks. I think I'm looking at a streamline refinance.

Although not under water on my mortgage, I would most likely have to pay mortgage insurance if I went with the traditional appraisal type of refinance. With the streamline I do not.

Regardless, I can save 40-60k over the life of the loan and 150ish-450ish per month depending on the term. Only a blubbering idiot would not do it...right?

Or am I overlooking something?

I would get an estimate with the lowest rate and another with the "no cost" option.
Consider how long it would take to recoup the closing costs if you go that option.

Hi Rowdy Yankee,
I'm on the banker side, now. Was a broker for years, but it just go too hard to remain one.
We have some pretty generous credits avaialable, so most of my refi clients are going with the "no cost" option.

In my area, home values got slammed 40% or more, so VA and FHA streamlines are the only real viable refi options sice there's no new appraisal required.
We'll see in March if the HARP 2.0 turns out to be a help for homeowners.
I hope so, but I've seen so many special programs end up being a bunch of hype.

[/quote]

MortgageBoss,
Apologize for the delay in response, pipeline had a few days of SHTF.

It's always interesting to see the perspectives of other types in the industry...for me, I work for a corresondent lender (to non-mortgage folks, we lend off a line of credit, then sell the loans to banks who want to collect the interest payments, who pay us for doing their legwork.) I guess one benefit on my side of things is that I'm licensed in 7 states, so I have a mix of high-value/low value or equity states.' Michigan and Arizona don't do much for my volume, but New Jersey, Oregon, California, Virginia help on that front.

Our credits on FHA loans, streamline and with appraisal, I can usually get -1 to -1.5 points in credits for maybe .375% higher.
We've been doing a good bit of DU Refi+ loans, the 105% LV, 110% CLTV, fannie mae refinances-we don't offer anything for freddie macs.

Quick technical question––do you have different rate sheets/incentives for current clients? I've gotten murdered the past 2 weeks when borrowers call their current lender. I know about waiving 3rd party costs and sometimes appraisal, but I've been outpriced by a ridiculous margin recently (USAA, of all the fucking lenders, refinancing current borrower, 78% LTV, 180k bal, credit around 800, offered him 4.0%, -.5, no appraisal, only fee was required was a $350 processing fee.) Obviously it's in your banks' interest to keep the business, but I was surprised by how badly we were beaten.

ETA: Per the websites of Chase, Bank of America, and Quicken, we're kicking the shit out of all of them, either getting the same rate for about half of the points they charge, or using the x amount of points that you'd pay with them to get a lower rate for same cost. This is why I'm curious about the retention bonuses/credits-in truly FUBAR/underwater situations, I send em back to their current lender.

Hi Rowdy Yankee,

We have the ability to buy down the rate and have it paid for out of the branch's P and L. I have to get permission first and it cant be for every deal. We do use those on returning clients or a good referred deal.

I'm in Idaho, and we have a non profit housing agency that has very generous credits for no closing cost loans. My bank does have them as well on the government loans, but conventional, we have less generous credits.

I always want my clients to get the best deal and if they present me with a legitimate offer from a competitor that I cant match or beat, I send them on and wish them well.

Now many times, its my service that keeps them with me. Being able to come to my office and deal with someone face to face who can help them navigate the complicated mortgage process has kept my clients with me. As a result, I deal mostly with locals. I'm only licensed in Idaho.

Getting back to the no cost question question, I can get a VA or FHA 30 yr loan at 3.75% with closing costs, but I am doing most of my VA and FHA refis at 4.1% and get enough credit to cover closing costs, escrows, and sometimes even the VA funding fee. Obviously, the credits go farther with the larger loans, but it even works well on the smaller loans. When I show a client the differenece in payments vs how much they pay in closing costs, they almost always pick the no cost option.

That's right where I'm at. A Wells Fargo in house VA IRRL dropping from a 5.5 30 yr to a 4.25 30 yr with no closing costs, and the funding fee covered. The other option was a 3.75 w/me paying all closing costs. Better to take the lower rate, but the difference was about $40 month, making the breakeven point about 96 months away. Not planning to be in the house that long, so the choice was easy.

i have a question for the pros here –– under HARP 2.0 what are my options given the situation below:

original loan sourced in March 2009, 30yr fixed at 5%, with Wells Fargo. LTV ~60%.
did a no-cost WF loan modification in August 2011, result was 20yr @ 4% fixed. LTV ~55%.

current on every note payment since day 1, credit score >800.

http://www.fanniemae.com/loanlookup/


what are my refi options under HARP 2.0?

thanks,
ar-jedi

Hi Ar-Jedi,

If you're only at 55% loan to value, you're in a much better place than those who seek help through Harp.
Harp 2.0 if for those over 80% loan to value, you could do a regular refinance if you wish.

A rate of 4% on a 20 yr fixed is pretty close to the going rate right now. I quoted someone 3.75% last Thursday.
It may not be worth the time or expense unless rates drop much further.

thanks. if i could do a no-cost modification again to 3.75%, i would do it. my prior experience with the WF at-home closing was completely painless, for the most part it required driving a mile and sitting in front of a notary for 20 minutes signing forms. so if i can knock a quarter point off in 20 minutes, i'll do it!

on the other hand, it pisses me off to no end that folks are getting principal reductions out of these government plans.

ar-jedi

MB-thanks for explaining how the credits on the bank side work-we can match legitimate GFEs in some cases too, just requires approval too.
Service is how I maintain my business as well-though slightly different as I can't do the face-to-face that you can, so my borrowers get my cell number and I work weekends as well, so they can always get in touch.

Rates sound almost identical on the FHA, as do the credits––interesting. I thought you guys had a slight edge.

Thanks for the clarification on all––I also started a "ask a mortgage question" thread, if you want to chime in there

MB probably knows better than I on HARP 2.0, but on conventional loans, even if you're trying to do a DU refi + (think weaker HARP plan), with us a modification is an instant deal killer. Now, if it was a streamlined refinance, as opposed to a modification, you're good to go.

I second MB's assessment on the 20 year rates as well, that's what I'm seeing

what is the difference?

how could i tell which i went through last august? it was via the WF "RUSH" program, if that helps any. no closing costs, no appraisal, do-paperwork-at-home deal. about 20 minutes at the notary and i knocked a percent off the APR and reduced the term from 30 to 20 years.

ar-jedi

Ok, that sounds like a streamline.' Modifications are when you have to prove hardship or loss of equity, and it's usually a 2-5 month pain in the ass ofv the bank losing and re-re-re-requesting the same shit you've already sent.

OK the bad people at WF will not let me do another "streamline".

FYI here's what they are offering:

(reminder: i am ~8 months into a fixed 4% 20yr conforming, LTV=55%, credit > 800).

3.875% 20yr fixed, $1700 closing.
3.375% 15yr fixed, $1700 closing.

the APR's above are nominally 0.125% higher as WF would pick up half the closing costs. you can figure out what the numbers for the other approaches would be.

even with the decreased cost, the break-even on the 20yr re-fi is way long –– on the order of 2 years.
the increment on the 15yr is "doable", not totally attractive, but lops 5yrs of payments off and 10's of thousands in interest.

i have not decided whether to sit tight or explore this further.

ar-jedi

My lender is offering me a refinance through HARP for my condo. They're offering a 30 year loan at 4.875%.

I currently have a 20 year loan at 5.75%. I owe $93K on a condo appraised at $68K for taxes. I actually sent an application for a HAMP modification, but the bank is pushing me to go with a HARP refi, claiming it won't affect my credit like HAMP would.

I'm not too thrilled with a 4.875% rate. This puts my monthly housing expense at 40% of my income, only slightly better than the 50% I'm paying now.

Should I proceed with trying to get a HAMP modification due to hardship, based on the fact I'm making half as much income as I did when I bought the condo? Or should I go with HARP and just swallow paying 40% of my income toward a severely underwater loan?

Sturmgewehr-58,
how far are you into that 20 yr loan right now? Any chance of your income taking a turn for the better (or even worse) in the near future?
The reason I'm asking is you are talking about tacking on another 10 years+ however many years you are already in to the current loan.
The new loan will be 30 years from that loan's date, if you are 5 yrs in to the current 20 year that would be 15 yrs left - big difference.

also, how long do you plan to stay in that condo?

I'll be 4 years into my 20 year mortgage this July. I do plan on my income improving soon, but I've only been working at my current job since May of last year, so it'll be a long time before I ever come close to making the same money I used to.

I plan to hold onto the condo permanently since I doubt it would ever be worth enough to sell, but I have my father living with me right now. If I can get the mortgage down to something affordable for him, I was hoping to let him stay in the place and make the payment each month while I find a small apartment closer to work. I drive 20 miles to work one way each day and it's rough with the price of gas. Also, my car insurance goes down $35 a month at the new zip code I plan to move to.

it looks like your principle and interest payments should look something like (before escrows):

5.75% @ 16 yrs remaining ~$740 = $142,080.00
4.875% @ 30 yrs ~$492 = $177,120.00

So you would be saving approximately $250 per month, but you would be paying for 14 years longer.
However......
if you take the REFI, then your rate drops, the same payment you are making now (assuming ~$740) you would pay off the house about a year and a half sooner than the current loan.

......................................but, that's all a moot point if you (or your dad in your situation) can't swing the current note. I just wanted to run the numbers to help see exactly where it was you stood.

Thanks Nick.
I think I'll just go with the refi. I'm only 30 years old, so taking on a 30 year mortgage at this point won't be too bad. I should be making a bit more money soon, so worst case if my dad can't swing the payment on his own I'll chip in a bit to help out.

Honestly, I can't wait to move out of the place. It's my home and I'm paying the mortgage, but I'm pretty much confined to one room in the house since my father basically took over the place for himself and his dog. I'm planning to move to a 600 sq ft apartment just so I can have a place for myself.

If I am going to apply for a refi through HARP, should I hold off until March 19 so I can be eligible for HARP 2.0, or would my application be considered using HARP 2.0 guidelines anyway if I apply this week?

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1120151/

also see if you qual for this:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/06/real_estate/obama_mortgages/index.htm

ar-jedi

Thanks ar-jedi, those links were very helpful.

Unfortunately I'm not eligible for the FHA program since I don't have an FHA loan. Your first link brought up some interesting things to consider, especially the part about the possibility of me having to get additional structure insurance on my condo. We just had an insurance valuation earlier this year, and we had to purchase higher coverages to cover the replacement cost of the buildings, so hopefully I'm ok there.

I notice the link mentioned only doing the refi if you can get at least a 1% drop in interest rate. I will only be going from 5.75 to 4.875, but I'll also be able to extend my 20 year mortgage to 30 years, so I suppose that'll make up for the difference.

As I mentioned before, my bank offered to refinance my mortgage at 30 year fixed 4.875%, lowering my monthly housing expenses from 50% to about 40% of my income.

Today they offered me a 30 year 3/3 ARM starting at 2.75%. The rate is locked for three years at a time, it is guaranteed not to exceed a 1.5% increase each three years thereafter, and will not go more than 5% above the 2.75% I start off at.

They claimed it would be a better solution for someone like me who is making a lot less income than I was previously, but expected to have a higher income in the future.

I'm paying 5.75% interest right now, and with the 3/3 ARM I will be looking at no higher than that for at least the next 9 years. Does anyone foresee the interest rates going as high as they've been previously, when ARMs in the 10% range weren't out of the ordinary?

Sturm, to address the initial question about taking a 30 compared to the 20 year you currently have––I'd say on that, do it. Especially if cash is a concern right now. You can always revert back to a 20 year payment (with a lower interest rate), when things improve.'

As to the ARM––BE VERY VERY CAREFUL. Right now rates are low because the housing market is weak, and demand is low.

Let's take a 10-year timeframe, since you said you'd like to keep the condo. Think about it this way-would you rather pay a 4.875% guaranteed for 10 years, or pay a 2.75% for 3 years, 4.25% for year 3-6, 5.5% for years 6-9, then 7.75% for years 9-30?

Next question: If your income does recover and improve, what would the payment at 7.75% interest rate be? Would you rather make the 4.875% payment for 10 years, or the above scenario for the ARM? The thing to remember is that whatever the ARM rate is at a given point in time, the fixed rate will be higher. Because you pay for that stability. So if you go to a fixed loan, you'll have to take a higher rate than the ARM rate down the line. I talk to people everyday who don't want to refinance into a fixed loan because their payment would go up. When I ask what they are going to do when their 3.5% goes to 8.5%, the response is inevitably "oh, I'll refinance way before then.'" There's a disconnect that they'll be refinancing into a higher rate than current

As to your question about rates––the historic average rate has been around 6%. In the 80s, 12-18% rates weren't uncommon. Banks are structured to make money. Lending hundreds of thousands of dollars at 4% is literally making the banks piss blood, and they hate it. Which is why they're so slow on modifications and HARP loans (BoA is turning people away/telling them to come back in 60 days, and fired 30k mortgage-related workers in december). Think they're serious about saving you money? Why would they be? They make more with you paying your current interest rate than the new one. On an ARM, they're assuming you'll either a) refinance when rates go up, or b) pay the eventual higher interest rate. Which they like.

I could go into macroeconomics, but basically, as the US economy improves, interest rates will rise. As housing prices rise, rates will rise. T he reason they're low now is that the fed is trying to keep the economy and housing market from collapsing via 20% of the nation saying "fuck this, here's the keys Mr. Bank"

Lastly, for your bank saying HARP is better than a modification, they're right. We can't touch a loan that's had a modification or principal forgiveness in the past 48 months. It really F&*(^s up your credit

Thanks, I appreciate your help.

Going from a 20 to 30 year mortgage, my monthly payments at 7.75% will still be $100 less than what I'm paying now. I only owe $90K, so the payments shouldn't ever be too high. I'm willing to pay a higher interest rate later if I can lower my payments for now, especially since I'd like to rent the place to my dad so I can move to a tiny apartment and finally have a place to myself. I'm on the verge of psychosis right now

Dur-dee-durr, answered question already covered

I just got my Good Faith Estimate from the bank for my HARP refi.
I'm borrowing $94,052, closing costs are $3,445.

Nowhere in the paperwork did it mention if points can be added to tack some of that onto the pricipal. I'd kind of like to know before I start paying them money for things like an appraisal, which they are already asking for. Throwing down that much would drain nearly all of my cash savings,

My GFE showed fees of $750, and those were all paid by the bank. Make sure that these are actual fees and not just disclosures.
My HARP refi cost me nothing up front.

Looks like the bank didn't think to offer me that option. I've asked them to send me a new GFE with the details for a lower settlement charge option.

Have them send you a copy of your credit report, then compare the loan balance on your mortgage(from credit report or your mortgage statement) to the new loan amount. If it's higher by roughly the amount of costs, they're rolling it in. See if you qualify for an appraisal waiver, and ask if you can roll the costs into the mortgage. HARP 2 allows for those in some cases

ETA: Have them send you the 1003 (Uniform Residential Loan Application). Probably around page 3 or 4, on the left-hand side, you'll see a breakdown of the costs, cost to payoff old mortgage, etc. At the bottom of that little list, you'll see the cash to, or from you

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