Archived Posts » 59,789,155
Vibram being sued...
3/29/2012 5:32:06 PM
in a class action lawsuit for making deceptive/false claims about barefoot running and their shoes.
http://www.universalhub.com/files/vibram-complaint.pdf
As much as it pains me to say this (because I cant stand it when people make a blind recommendation to someone for these shoes), I tend to agree with what this guy says...people in our society like to shed responsibility and play the victim for a big payday. I dont think you should get paid for being an idiot, regardless of what I think about the shoes.
We'll see how this one goes, and what happens to their sales once a ruling is made.
More on the story here.
http://www.universalhub.com/files/vibram-complaint.pdf
As much as it pains me to say this (because I cant stand it when people make a blind recommendation to someone for these shoes), I tend to agree with what this guy says...people in our society like to shed responsibility and play the victim for a big payday. I dont think you should get paid for being an idiot, regardless of what I think about the shoes.
We'll see how this one goes, and what happens to their sales once a ruling is made.
More on the story here.
3/29/2012 6:07:02 PM
Was the defendant injured?
I guess this just means the next pair I buy will be even more expensive to pay the lawyers off.
I guess this just means the next pair I buy will be even more expensive to pay the lawyers off.
3/29/2012 6:16:35 PM
tort reform
3/29/2012 6:21:16 PM
Originally Posted By RatherBeLifting:
Was the defendant injured?
I guess this just means the next pair I buy will be even more expensive to pay the lawyers off.
Was the defendant injured?
I guess this just means the next pair I buy will be even more expensive to pay the lawyers off.
I just skimmed through the complaint, but from what I could tell it didnt seem like any of them were injured, just werent happy with how the product performed.
3/29/2012 6:35:25 PM
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
3/29/2012 6:37:47 PM
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
Can you post these facts please? Are you really saying you know of a scientific study that proves those things before shoes were ever invented?
3/29/2012 7:11:50 PM
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
Before shoes people walked on dirt,leaves,mud and grass.....your argument doesn't really pan out with today's urban landscape.
3/29/2012 7:50:41 PM
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
Our caveman ancestors didn't have Bodyglide either, but that doesn't mean I'm running without it
3/29/2012 8:18:42 PM
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
And just where is the documentation for these "facts"? Do you have copies of the Proceedings of the Cro-Magnon Podiatrists Symposium of 200,000 B.C. that presented these 'facts"? Or perhaps you have the minutes of the 2,347th Annual International Pangea Neanderthal Cobbler's Convention where they discuss the matter?
3/29/2012 8:46:50 PM
Originally Posted By FredMan:
And just where is the documentation for these "facts"? Do you have copies of the Proceedings of the Cro-Magnon Podiatrists Symposium of 200,000 B.C. that presented these 'facts"? Or perhaps you have the minutes of the 2,347th Annual International Pangea Neanderthal Cobbler's Convention where they discuss the matter?
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
And just where is the documentation for these "facts"? Do you have copies of the Proceedings of the Cro-Magnon Podiatrists Symposium of 200,000 B.C. that presented these 'facts"? Or perhaps you have the minutes of the 2,347th Annual International Pangea Neanderthal Cobbler's Convention where they discuss the matter?
As evidenced by exibit X (insert cave painting of stylized animal) you are incorrect. people are stupid.
3/29/2012 9:02:26 PM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Can you post these facts please? Are you really saying you know of a scientific study that proves those things before shoes were ever invented?
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
Can you post these facts please? Are you really saying you know of a scientific study that proves those things before shoes were ever invented?
[foghorn-leghorn voice]"How dare you suh! How daaaarre you bring those 'facts' and that 'logic' into this here debate!"[/foghorn-leghorn voice]
3/29/2012 9:29:03 PM
Originally Posted By scrum:
[foghorn-leghorn voice]"How dare you suh! How daaaarre you bring those 'facts' and that 'logic' into this here debate!"[/foghorn-leghorn voice]
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Can you post these facts please? Are you really saying you know of a scientific study that proves those things before shoes were ever invented?
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
Can you post these facts please? Are you really saying you know of a scientific study that proves those things before shoes were ever invented?
[foghorn-leghorn voice]"How dare you suh! How daaaarre you bring those 'facts' and that 'logic' into this here debate!"[/foghorn-leghorn voice]
3/30/2012 11:34:09 PM
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
Before shoes people walked on dirt,leaves,mud and grass.....your argument doesn't really pan out with today's urban landscape.
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
Before shoes people walked on dirt,leaves,mud and grass.....your argument doesn't really pan out with today's urban landscape.
A lot of the things I've read on our ancient ancestors seems to suggest that in their very short lives they incurred quite a lot of wear and tear on their joints & bones, spines and feet. This was offset by the fact that early man rarely lived past 25 or 30. At that age, even modern man running in these terrible "shoes" don't incur much in the way of degenerative injuries.
But, it makes for a great (and stupid) soundbite.
3/31/2012 12:03:01 AM
Originally Posted By swingset:
A lot of the things I've read on our ancient ancestors seems to suggest that in their very short lives they incurred quite a lot of wear and tear on their joints & bones, spines and feet. This was offset by the fact that early man rarely lived past 25 or 30. At that age, even modern man running in these terrible "shoes" don't incur much in the way of degenerative injuries.
But, it makes for a great (and stupid) soundbite.
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
Before shoes people walked on dirt,leaves,mud and grass.....your argument doesn't really pan out with today's urban landscape.
Originally Posted By xachary82:
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
it is fact that before shoes were around, posture, leg strength and spine alignment were all better. Fivefingers do address these problems, but it should be common sense that you will have to change your walking and running styles, as there is no heel support, and no inner shanks.
Before shoes people walked on dirt,leaves,mud and grass.....your argument doesn't really pan out with today's urban landscape.
A lot of the things I've read on our ancient ancestors seems to suggest that in their very short lives they incurred quite a lot of wear and tear on their joints & bones, spines and feet. This was offset by the fact that early man rarely lived past 25 or 30. At that age, even modern man running in these terrible "shoes" don't incur much in the way of degenerative injuries.
But, it makes for a great (and stupid) soundbite.
Running on soft surface and dead at 25 = no shoes FTMFW!
3/31/2012 12:08:39 AM
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
3/31/2012 12:13:42 AM
Originally Posted By MrKasab:
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
3/31/2012 12:16:42 AM
Originally Posted By swingset:
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
Originally Posted By MrKasab:
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
You don't sell books with that kind of talk, mister.
3/31/2012 12:18:16 AM
I would say the common denominator between paleo and traditional asian diets is a reliance on minimally to no processed food. I also would think a lot of the people who live to be 100 also haven't had high stress lives, which is just a total guess on my part.
3/31/2012 12:19:43 AM
Originally Posted By swingset:
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
Originally Posted By MrKasab:
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
I have thought of that also....they also have much less obesity than we do and probably less vices and more manual labor.
Just some thoughts of mine.....no scientific studys or experience to back it.
3/31/2012 12:23:31 AM
Originally Posted By MrKasab:
I would say the common denominator between paleo and traditional asian diets is a reliance on minimally to no processed food. I also would think a lot of the people who live to be 100 also haven't had high stress lives, which is just a total guess on my part.
I would say the common denominator between paleo and traditional asian diets is a reliance on minimally to no processed food. I also would think a lot of the people who live to be 100 also haven't had high stress lives, which is just a total guess on my part.
You git that while I was posting.... I hadn't thought about stress levels. VERY IMPORTANT fact of well being and I'm sure that equates to longevity. J
3/31/2012 12:25:55 AM
Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
I have thought of that also....they also have much less obesity than we do and probably less vices and more manual labor.
Just some thoughts of mine.....no scientific studys or experience to back it.
Originally Posted By swingset:
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
Originally Posted By MrKasab:
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
I have thought of that also....they also have much less obesity than we do and probably less vices and more manual labor.
Just some thoughts of mine.....no scientific studys or experience to back it.
You don't need a whole lot of scientific studies to sit back and ask yourself how you can test certain factors.
If the problem is pasta and rice - shouldn't we be seeing a lot fat Italians and Koreans? Many of these faddish things get shot down with just a little bit of common sense. In a lot of cases, it is easy to look globally and find populations that sort of serve as valid comparison groups. You can also look across history. Mankind has been harvesting grain for a long time. We only started becoming fatasses in the last few decades. Grains cannot be the decisive variable here.
3/31/2012 12:34:20 AM
Yea, I guess grain and rice where not so much of a weight gainer when you have to sit out in a field hours a day harvesting it.
3/31/2012 12:42:51 AM
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Yea, I guess grain and rice where not so much of a weight gainer when you have to sit out in a field hours a day harvesting it.
Yea, I guess grain and rice where not so much of a weight gainer when you have to sit out in a field hours a day harvesting it.
Which is why I mentioned two advanced economies. Italians and Koreans living in urban areas aren't really any fatter than their farm-laboring cousins.
Mexicans are getting fat as hell now too - and some of the paleo types have blamed corn. NAFTA seems to have more to do with it. I've seen no evidence of increased corn consumption to correlate with the obesity. I haven't even seen someone try to claim this.
I have no doubt it is diet-related. I just think people are too quick to jump on gimmicky answers promoted by shysters.
One thing I never saw in Italy or Korea - but that I have seen in Mexico - was 64 oz big gulps, or free drink refills in general.
3/31/2012 1:07:20 AM
Originally Posted By swingset:
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
Originally Posted By MrKasab:
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
There's a few reasons why certain groups get away with the things they do...in fact I've gone over them with you before- I know I have...so there's no point in repeating myself since you don't want to hear. If I'm mistaken let me know and I'll lay it out.
If eating meat and vegetables and cutting out processed shit is a fad, then I guess I'm just a big sucker... although results don't lie.
3/31/2012 2:02:18 AM
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
There's a few reasons why certain groups get away with the things they do...in fact I've gone over them with you before- I know I have...so there's no point in repeating myself since you don't want to hear. If I'm mistaken let me know and I'll lay it out.
Originally Posted By swingset:
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
Originally Posted By MrKasab:
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
There's a few reasons why certain groups get away with the things they do...in fact I've gone over them with you before- I know I have...so there's no point in repeating myself since you don't want to hear. If I'm mistaken let me know and I'll lay it out.
If eating meat and vegetables and cutting out processed shit is a fad, then I guess I'm just a big sucker... although results don't lie.
Don't change the argument to one that suits you, I made no mention of anything but grains. Grains can obviously be the entire staple of a diet and a whole population can get away with it because they're active and eat balanced, so Paleo demonizing grain consumption is all I have an issue with. That's it, period.
Balance trumps everything, including fads. It always has, it always will.
My results don't lie either. I'm at 12% body fat down from 23%, in fine shape, and eating a non-primal diet. My cholesterol is perfect, BP is normal and my blood sugars are right where they're supposed to be. How do I do it? Balance. Grains, carbs, sugars, fats...I eat it all. Oh, and a little protein and veggies, some fruit and even some processed shit. In fact, I eat a lot of processed shit. See, processed if it's not loaded with sugar and MSG isn't actually bad for you at all. I read the labels, I compare, I'm not afraid of the processed boogeyman. Again, moderation and balance. The percentage of processed food items I eat is smaller than the good stuff, but it's ridiculous to believe they need to be eliminated from the diet or scaled so grossly out of proportion in order to attain health. Otherwise, how could I be here doing this? Believe me my fat german genetics isn't inclined towards lean and fit. I work hard, and I eat balanced.
Paleo works for you, I get it, but it's not NECESSARY for optimal health any more than I would say my way is the only way. It's not but Paleo's claims fall apart when you can look at a culture living largely on the "bad stuff" and doing so without obesity or heart disease like we're supposed to be on the hook for. Grains ain't the enemy, the quantity of certain foods are. If you have an issue with that, there's no reaching you.
3/31/2012 10:11:31 AM
Originally Posted By swingset:
Don't change the argument to one that suits you, I made no mention of anything but grains. Grains can obviously be the entire staple of a diet and a whole population can get away with it because they're active and eat balanced, so Paleo demonizing grain consumption is all I have an issue with. That's it, period.
Balance trumps everything, including fads. It always has, it always will.
My results don't lie either. I'm at 12% body fat down from 23%, in fine shape, and eating a non-primal diet. My cholesterol is perfect, BP is normal and my blood sugars are right where they're supposed to be. How do I do it? Balance. Grains, carbs, sugars, fats...I eat it all. Oh, and a little protein and veggies, some fruit and even some processed shit. In fact, I eat a lot of processed shit. See, processed if it's not loaded with sugar and MSG isn't actually bad for you at all. I read the labels, I compare, I'm not afraid of the processed boogeyman. Again, moderation and balance. The percentage of processed food items I eat is smaller than the good stuff, but it's ridiculous to believe they need to be eliminated from the diet or scaled so grossly out of proportion in order to attain health. Otherwise, how could I be here doing this? Believe me my fat german genetics isn't inclined towards lean and fit. I work hard, and I eat balanced.
Paleo works for you, I get it, but it's not NECESSARY for optimal health any more than I would say my way is the only way. It's not but Paleo's claims fall apart when you can look at a culture living largely on the "bad stuff" and doing so without obesity or heart disease like we're supposed to be on the hook for. Grains ain't the enemy, the quantity of certain foods are. If you have an issue with that, there's no reaching you.
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
There's a few reasons why certain groups get away with the things they do...in fact I've gone over them with you before- I know I have...so there's no point in repeating myself since you don't want to hear. If I'm mistaken let me know and I'll lay it out.
Originally Posted By swingset:
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
Originally Posted By MrKasab:
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
There are still a few people on the planet who live as paleo man lived. I wonder what anthropologist (do I have the right ologist?) that study them would say about alot of the mainstream paleo craze?
Would be interesting in knowing that myself. A lot of the asian cultures eat the holy hell out of grains - in fact noodles and rice are the backbones of diets there and they used to be held up to be much healthier than westerners. I find that in pretty direct contradiction to the paleo fad, too.
Meh, I've always believed in balance and moderation in everything. It's about the only thing that's ever seemed defensible.
There's a few reasons why certain groups get away with the things they do...in fact I've gone over them with you before- I know I have...so there's no point in repeating myself since you don't want to hear. If I'm mistaken let me know and I'll lay it out.
If eating meat and vegetables and cutting out processed shit is a fad, then I guess I'm just a big sucker... although results don't lie.
Don't change the argument to one that suits you, I made no mention of anything but grains. Grains can obviously be the entire staple of a diet and a whole population can get away with it because they're active and eat balanced, so Paleo demonizing grain consumption is all I have an issue with. That's it, period.
Balance trumps everything, including fads. It always has, it always will.
My results don't lie either. I'm at 12% body fat down from 23%, in fine shape, and eating a non-primal diet. My cholesterol is perfect, BP is normal and my blood sugars are right where they're supposed to be. How do I do it? Balance. Grains, carbs, sugars, fats...I eat it all. Oh, and a little protein and veggies, some fruit and even some processed shit. In fact, I eat a lot of processed shit. See, processed if it's not loaded with sugar and MSG isn't actually bad for you at all. I read the labels, I compare, I'm not afraid of the processed boogeyman. Again, moderation and balance. The percentage of processed food items I eat is smaller than the good stuff, but it's ridiculous to believe they need to be eliminated from the diet or scaled so grossly out of proportion in order to attain health. Otherwise, how could I be here doing this? Believe me my fat german genetics isn't inclined towards lean and fit. I work hard, and I eat balanced.
Paleo works for you, I get it, but it's not NECESSARY for optimal health any more than I would say my way is the only way. It's not but Paleo's claims fall apart when you can look at a culture living largely on the "bad stuff" and doing so without obesity or heart disease like we're supposed to be on the hook for. Grains ain't the enemy, the quantity of certain foods are. If you have an issue with that, there's no reaching you.
I never said it was the only way. There are also studies that I've provided for you before suggesting that gluten is in fact not good for you. Some grains/gluten/processed foods sure aren't going to kill you...I never suggested that. That doesn't mean that it's doing anything good for you either.
You're also lumping in rice with other grains, which means you really haven't looked into Primal that much. Again, if you're actually interested in what Primal has to say about why Asians in particular are healthy and not obese let me know.
The things you claim, along with your assertion that Primal is a "fad" with no balance tell me you haven't read much in regards to Primal. I've seen a lot of your posts, you seem like a reasonable guy but I don't understand the hard-on you have for Primal.
3/31/2012 10:27:17 AM
of course their are risks.
they are removing padding that regular running shoes have
and seperating your toes so they are not mushed together
tag for later reading and later updates
they are removing padding that regular running shoes have
and seperating your toes so they are not mushed together
tag for later reading and later updates
4/1/2012 5:27:59 AM
The Science of Sport guys do another great writeupbon this issue. Article
4/1/2012 6:24:01 AM
My (completely unqualified) opinion is that this lawsuit against Vibram has been brought by a bunch of tards who expected magical results just from buying shoes.
I don't have any pain in my knees, ankles, or hips anymore, after switching from "traditional running shoes" to VFFs a year ago for everyday wear, and changing the way I walk and run. That's enough for me to keep buying them.
I didn't put much stock in the "health benefit claims" on Vibram's site, and I'm sure some of that stuff is either unproven or outright BS, but I also read the whole site, including the part where they warn people up front that they will have to change the way they walk and run, in order to see any benefits and to prevent injuries.
I don't have any pain in my knees, ankles, or hips anymore, after switching from "traditional running shoes" to VFFs a year ago for everyday wear, and changing the way I walk and run. That's enough for me to keep buying them.
I didn't put much stock in the "health benefit claims" on Vibram's site, and I'm sure some of that stuff is either unproven or outright BS, but I also read the whole site, including the part where they warn people up front that they will have to change the way they walk and run, in order to see any benefits and to prevent injuries.
4/1/2012 10:47:01 AM
Originally Posted By sav_carguy:
My (completely unqualified) opinion is that this lawsuit against Vibram has been brought by a bunch of tards who expected magical results just from buying shoes.
I don't have any pain in my knees, ankles, or hips anymore, after switching from "traditional running shoes" to VFFs a year ago for everyday wear, and changing the way I walk and run. That's enough for me to keep buying them.
I didn't put much stock in the "health benefit claims" on Vibram's site, and I'm sure some of that stuff is either unproven or outright BS, but I also read the whole site, including the part where they warn people up front that they will have to change the way they walk and run, in order to see any benefits and to prevent injuries.
My (completely unqualified) opinion is that this lawsuit against Vibram has been brought by a bunch of tards who expected magical results just from buying shoes.
I don't have any pain in my knees, ankles, or hips anymore, after switching from "traditional running shoes" to VFFs a year ago for everyday wear, and changing the way I walk and run. That's enough for me to keep buying them.
I didn't put much stock in the "health benefit claims" on Vibram's site, and I'm sure some of that stuff is either unproven or outright BS, but I also read the whole site, including the part where they warn people up front that they will have to change the way they walk and run, in order to see any benefits and to prevent injuries.
Just curious how you changed the way you walk? Are you walking on the ball of your foot?
4/1/2012 10:53:35 AM
This quote is perfect and exactly why I hate blind recommendations for that shoe.
And another, good find H46
And this is for the guys here...
I think all the vibram wearers here should read this article. Shoot I think all vibram wearers should read this article. Again, nice write up by Ross and good find H46.
So if you are going to advocate that people should run barefoot and then coach them so that they learn the right way to do it, then you'd better be certain that you'll make them good enough to avoid the risk - there is a minimum threshold, and if a runner fails to reach it, you've led them to injury, despite good intentions. And it's not fair to runners to say "Run barefoot" and then blame the runner for their failures.
And another, good find H46
Instead, the media and advocates of barefoot running assume that everyone should make the switch because everyone will benefit. And the bodies left behind will be dealt with later. It's just too aggressive, too extreme.
And here, those who succeed become loud, outspoken (and dare I say, obnoxious), whereas those who fail slink away into the background and remain quiet about their failure. So those who tried barefoot running and got injured disappear, those who succeeded often find a soapbox, write a book, and shout about it. Those who try low carbohydrate diets and fail revert back to routine with minimal fuss, whereas those who succeed feel the need to tell the world. They dismiss any research study finding that challenges their position as "corrupt", "incompetent" and "garbage", and so debate goes nowhere. Once again, this happens because of aggressive advocacy, when it should be about education.
Which brings me to the final point. The big issue, I believe, is that people have become carried away with barefoot running as a way to treat injury and potentially improve performance without really appreciating how it might work (or, importantly, that it may not).
And this is for the guys here...
And for this, I completely blame the polarization of the debate that allows extremist views to develop and thrive. It's perfect for the media and the 'zealots' who try to force their success on large groups of people without being open to the other side. And there are some who are more moderate - I apologize for lumping everyone together. But there are many who are not. They base their 'prescription' of barefoot running on their own success story, or at best, a group of runners who they have succeeded with, and suddenly, the entire running community is being told to take this "drug". It works. Maybe. In some people. If they get it right. Possibly. That's not good enough.
I think all the vibram wearers here should read this article. Shoot I think all vibram wearers should read this article. Again, nice write up by Ross and good find H46.
4/1/2012 11:11:42 AM
Originally Posted By H46Driver:
The Science of Sport guys do another great writeupbon this issue. Article
The Science of Sport guys do another great writeupbon this issue. Article
Wow. I was not familiar with that website. Looks like it provides a great service - thanks.
4/1/2012 11:31:28 AM
I had a extra long stride, and detrimental heel strike. Vibrams + a little education = much happier running for me.
4/1/2012 1:18:24 PM
I have two pairs of VFFs now. If they were simple minimalist shoes that didn't look goofy.....I wouldn't have them. I suspect that's the reason most people buy them. They're provocative, that's their appeal. Do they work?? I don't know, but they're pretty comfortable for certain things and terrible for others.
4/1/2012 1:38:01 PM
Originally Posted By myitinaw:
tort reform
tort reform
