Looking to put together a 8.6BLK bolt gun. Anyone here have experience between 8" and 12" barrels?

Everything I've been able to find on the cartridge says 12" is ideal for ballistics, but my heart keeps taking me to 8"

Hoping someone's got some insight to point one way or the other.


Will be on a Aero solus action and either a 7.5" Aero chassis or Black Collar Arms Pork Sword chassis. Aesthetics push me toward the pork sword w/12" bbl or Aero with 8" bbl just so the can will sit relatively flush with the rail.

I built mine right when Faxon came out with their Remage barrels, my barrel was 12" to start.  I bought a Remington 700 in 308, did a from 1, and with some gauges barreled the action.  I'd already ordered the Pork Sword before starting the build, and it took about a year for that to come through and I ultimately really disliked their stock.  I used the factory synthetic stock cut back to clear the short barrel until the PS finally arrived.  

I shot up a good amount of Gorilla supers and subs to break it in and get some brass to reload.  I have also converted a bunch of Hornady 6.5cm as well.  My original plan was to load both supers and subs.  After trying to push some supers to the velocities that I wanted to see, it was clear I was never going to get there with 12", so I had the barrel cut back to 8" and threaded for 5/8-24 20* taper to work with the Porq Chop.  The original M18x1.5 20* threading is a pain unless you're only going to run Q cans.  They have XL Cherry Bombs in both threadings now, so the 5/8-24 with taper works best for other mounting systems.  Going to 8" has got me ideal velocities for all the subs I've loaded, 225-350gn, plus its so much more compact.  

Ultimately, I'm not quite getting the accuracy out of the Faxon that I think the cartridge is capable of.  I am getting right at MOA with the 300smk, and 1.25 with the 280 Discreet expander, but with super low single digit SDs so I think groups could be better.  I ordered a 16" 1:3 Shaw barrel, and its at the gunsmith right now getting cut back to 8", threaded 5/8-24 20* and chambered since its long chambered and shouldered, not a Remage.  

I shot a ton with my Hybrid 46 and a 9mm front cap while I was waiting for the Porq Chop to be approved.  It worked well, but the PC is on another level sound wise imo.  Its a challenging cartridge to load for, limited info and you have to be careful to keep non-bonded or mono projectiles from spinning apart with too much velocity.  When its working right though, those 300gns slamming into steel is really awesome.  I'm hoping to take the 280 Discreet expanders hunting in the fall, we'll see how the new barrel shoots.

If I had this to do all over again, I'd absolutely buy the 8" Fix to start, especially now with the free can promotion they're having.  With what I've spent on the project, I'm still under the cost of a Fix, but its really the easy button.  I have a Mini Fix SBR in 300bo, and while its over priced, the form factor is awesome, and impossible to match with any build based on a normal bolt action receiver.  I put a Fix stock on the Pork Sword with a Q hinge because its so much better than what Black Collar is offering.

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rather than cut back to 8", do it a bit longer so you have the option to pin and weld a suppressor to make it 16" and get out of the SBR tax.  if you planned to always use a suppressor in it, it's a no brainer IMHO, especially with how fast they are turning around form 1's and 4's

How much recoil does it have with supersonics? Given that it has none with subsonics.

Thats an amazing writeup, thank you @turbobrick !  I LOVE the idea of a folding stock that the pork sword allows, and right now the aero doesn't.  But I can get the aero chassis for significantly cheaper than the pork sword.

Appreciate your insight on the reloading front as well. I'm definitely going to be loading this cartridge and was operating under the assumption that I'd be loading both subs and supers, thus would be utilizing that extra barrel length for velocity. Reading your post and thinking about it, I might be best served sticking to subs anyway... If I wanted to sling full speed projectiles, I'll probably use a different cartridge. This rifle is going to be more for grins and banging steel.

It has enough recoil that supers were not fun with the original Pork Sword folding stock or the original Fix pad.  The Pork Sword pad is very thin, and the Fix is nearly solid.  In both cases the recoil was fine, but distracting.  Would not be a problem for hunting, but you need more pad if its going to be for volume at the range.  I put the big pad from Q on the Fix and forgot about recoil.


I have seen some guys go into the way lighter end of .338 down in the 160s and they are getting up into 2100fps which is amazing given what they're working with.  But for me, I have a 338-06 that will do way better with the same projectile, and I don't have to try and resolve the drastically different POI and dope that comes with the super-sub gulf in 8.6.  When you reload, I'd highly recommend VHT N110, its been the best powder, many of the other popular powders are geared toward semi-autos and end up much louder than they need to be in a bolt gun.  Midway and Shooters Pro Shop consistently have blemished 338 projectiles, I'd start picking up stuff in the 280-300gn range for plinking, and definitely the Discreet if you intend to hunt with it at all.  The 350 Maker expander is really cool in concept, but I haven't seen anyone who has got them shooting really well, a few MOA at 100 at best.  Good luck on your project, let me know if you have any other questions.  There is a pretty detailed thread on Snipers Hide in the reloading section that has a good amount of info, and a ton of marginal at best info, have to read critically.

Solid points on the supers. I'm pretty much convinced the 8" is the way to go now. N110's an easy sell as well- I've used N110 and N120 for 300blk so it's not surprising that it would perform well in another blackout cartridge. Makes me wonder if SW SBR SOCOM would be a decent powder, too (or their BLACKOUT powder).

Other than building the gun, I need to get smart on which brass is best to use for converting that doesn't require neck turning. I see one thing that says use Hornady 6.5, then immediately read another that says its not going to work. This will be an adventure, but a fun one.

How 'bout you split the difference between 8" and 12" and get a 10" barrel?

A little bit shorter than 12", a little bit more velocity than 8"... more powder burned vs. 8" means quieter and suppressor performance goes up... compromise is crazy, right?

That would be a very reasonable choice and is an outstanding suggestion. But...I've got a line on a couple very cheap barrels and those are my options. If 10" was available, I'd be very inclined to split the difference.

I had good luck with CFEBLK and Titegroup as well.  None of my local dealers have Shooters World, but I am really interested in, and searching for, some of their powders to try in 6arc.  I think many of the faster pistol powders will work great in 8.6, I did find pressure with the 350 Maker and TG though, I wasn't even thinking that was all that possible with subs, it kind of surprised me.

At the time I converted brass, there was no virgin brass available.  It was a pain in the ass, much more labor intensive than 300blk.  I still had to turn some of the necks even though I used Hornady 6.5cm.  I still save any Hornady 6.5cm I find at the range, and I will convert it later on in a big batch.  I mostly use the converted brass for plinking ammo.  If you're going to convert brass, I highly recommend getting the cut away gauge from Sheridan, it'll tell you right where your problems areas are.  I also like the Little Crow trimmer if you don't have something like a Giraud.

Now, Gorilla sells their brass which is made by Starline, Q sells their brass which is made by Hornady, and Alpha is selling some really nice looking brass.  If I had it to do again, I'd just buy brass, or watch Gunbroker, I bought a big lot of once fired Gorilla and Q brass.  

I disagree, you don't need any more velocity.  I can get the 350 Maker to 1050 in 8", any faster and it supersonic.  When you're staying subsonic, velocity has a ceiling, and if you're using the right powder, its all burned before 8", and that usually shows up as really low SDs.  I think I could still do everything I want with 8.6 with maybe even a 6" barrel, and it would still sound the same.  Now, a ton of people are running 1680 in 8.6, and at 8" its not all burned up, and that is a loud combo, a good portion of that powder is burned after the bullet is out of the barrel.

I went back through my reloading notes to see if I could be more scientific about supers.  In my Pork Sword, factory Gorilla with the 210 Barnes was 1997avg out of the 12" barrel.  I tried the Hornady 185CX in converted Hornady 6.5cm brass with WLR and 1680, the best I was able to do was 2160 and I found pressure right after that.  It probably could be pushed higher with a different powder or something like the 175 Hammer, but most of the monos really need an impact speed over 1800, so you're talking about a pretty short range hunting gun.  The Q/Faxon load chart shows them getting 2200 out of a 160 Barnes in a 12" barrel, so I feel like I was right in the pocket, there just isn't enough barrel to get much over that 2200 mark with any weight projectile.  Personally, I'd rather have a really heavy subsonic that I know is going to open up than a borderline too slow super with questionable expansion for up close rifle hunting, not to mention how much quieter the subs are.

Youve got me sold on the subs brother

I use 300blk because its versatile in both super/sub loads. But after some consideration, this one’s really just to throw big heavy bullets quietly. With that in mind, I ordered a 8.3” barrel and a chassis.

Now I’m just working on deciding that can it’ll get. TBAC seems pretty well liked, as well as the porq chop (but not liking their mount). Or CGS, or diligent defense. Rex seems good too, but theres nothing out there for reviews so I’m not sure how quiet it’ll be. YHM also has a new “bad larry” 338 can, but after watching their video in it…im kinda unimpressed. I’ve never really chased decibels before, but for whatever reason, I’m really looking forward to it with this bolt gun.

Really appreciate your insight man!

Seeing how my AAC 762SDN6 sounds unreal with 300blk, I stuck with KB for his 8.6 can too, but the mount is a definite drawback.  When I was shooting some of the other subs from Gorilla with my Hybrid 46, they were pretty inconsistent with poor SDs, so getting hits on steel at 200 was a challenge, and for some reason 300 was out of the question, I wasn't even able to see impact some of the time.  Fast forward to my Porq Chop being approved, and I immediately could hear the problem.  My local range has a 'no blue sky baffle system', and with the gun angled up for 300 yards, the projectiles were clipping the wood barrier 15 yards out and 10 feet up, sending them who knows where.  I never heard that with the Hybrid, but I heard it instantly with the PC, I think it's suppression is just so much better.

Do you recommend the Porq Chop?  I don’t have an 8.6 gun yet but just picked up a MiniFix to take advantage of the silencer promo and stuck between the Thunder Chicken and Porq Chop.  The hang up for me is I primarily run the Plan B system and the Porq Chop has the XL mount… I wish I could just swap it back and forth on my .300Blk.    I am wondering if I should just get the TC now and pick up a Rex MG7 9mm to use in 8.6blk later???

You quoted me, but I was the guy asking the original question about barrel lengths.

My thoughts... I'm pretty turned off by that XL mount on the Porq chop. The barrel I bought is threaded 5/8x24, so I'd be forced to buy an additional muzzle device (the included one is a different thread pitch). In addition to needing that additional muzzle device, I've now got a can that fits none of my other mounts. At this time I'm pretty heavily invested in Rearden/plan B mounts and don't want another.

As far as the MG7, I wouldn't. I've currently got probably 5-7 different MG7's sitting in my safe right now ranging from 224-458 bores, basically every single one they make and a couple duplicates. They're great cans. BUT, the 7 is a K can. They did just release a MG10 with a 338 bore which they're marketing for 8.6. HIGHLY tempted to give that a try. There's also the YHM bad larry, but it's a bit shorter than the others. I'm sure it'd do well, but I'm chasing decibels here and trying to select something big.

- I think I've ruled out the CGS Hekate for both cost and availability.
- DTF-LTI is a strong contender (if I can find one)
- Thunder beast 338 ultra is also a contender, again, if I can find one.

And...today I saw that Dead Air came out with a "Nomad 33" and it's marketed as extremely quiet on 8.6. Strong chance I'll snatch one of those up. Hell, maybe I'll grab a Rex MG10 in 338 as well and test them side by side.

Side note- the 358 MG7k is a wonderful can and sounds good on 300blk

I really do, its a great sounding can.  I can only compare it directly to my Hybrid 46, and it outshines that by a ton.  My only other Q can is a Jumbo Shrimp, and its been great, I hear the Thunder Chicken is equally awesome.  The different mount on the Porq Chop doesn't bother me, as someone who almost sent .338-06 through a .30 can since all my other cans use Plan A, I appreciate being able to segregate the caliber a little.


I didn't have a problem selling my m18x1.5 Cherry Bomb XL in the EE, and I hear that Q might exchange you for the 5/8-24 if yours is unused.  I should try and sell my Rex direct thread adapter again, people seem to be getting into the cartridge more and looking for mounting solutions.

Thank you both for the info.  I have 2 of the Rex MG7s in .264 and .30 cal size and agree they are a great balance of size, weight at a great price.  I like the look and the fact that I can buy 2 for the price of some of the other cans.  But they aren’t the quietest and when looking at the MG10 the weight increases and so does the cost.

I have a Q Full Nelson that is super quiet on .300blk so I guess I will go with the Porq Chop…. Just sucks because like you I am heavily invested in the regular Plan B.

Yeah. Thats kinda where I'm at too with the Rex. Cheapest of the options and, while good, they're heavier/potentially not as quiet. Went ahead and ordered the Nomax 33 today. Still have the itch to try Rex's juuuust in case they surprise me.

I bought 3 boxes of the blemished Gorilla 342 grain expanders to use in running some ammo through my new Shaw barrel, and to get a little more of the Gorilla/Starline brass.  I had my 10" round steel target hanging on rubber straps at 100 yards.  After I got the rifle rezeroed, I was hitting the steel shot after shot, and I was able to hit the 3" hanging next to it 5/5 as well.  I was also shooting some ladders with the 250 Nosler CC and the 300smk to see what the barrel likes.  

When I was done, I went out to pick up the targets, and found all these tiny little caltrops.  They were scattered all over the place, with the closest ones being 15 yards back toward the shooter, and several 40 yards back toward the benches.  I didn't see them coming back so it was pretty surprising.  They were going 960 out of the 8" barrel.

@CuldesacWarlord


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Crazy how they expanded on steel so uniformly! Can’t thank you enough for all your insight man. Truly invaluable. @turbobrick

I’ll prob start a 8.6 thread over in the reloading section in a week or two. That barrel arrives in ~3 weeks then i’ll be in business.

Ordered a few lb’s of N110 for starters, 500 300gr SMK, and the giant pile of assorted tooling I’ll need to convert brass. Factory new is $$$, gunbroker’s empty for used, and I’ve got a good amount of 6.5 going unused. That, and thousands upon thousands of LC 762 I generally don’t load for 308 because I don’t want to work up separate load data for it.

I'm looking forward to how things play out for you, more info is always good.  I'd definitely be down for a reloading thread, its tough to try out all the combos all alone.  Make sure you're ready to turn necks with that LC.  In my Faxon barrel I even had to neck turn the Hornady 6.5cm that you're not supposed to need to turn.  What barrel did you go with?

damnit i've been trying to stay away from this thread and now your going to start a new one for reloading 8.6

i started collecting parts for an 8.6 build back when Q was just developing the round but got impatient and had McGowen spin up a short 308 barrel as a place holder until the 8.6 became more mainstream.  the gun turned out to be a really nice shooter so i didn't want to rebarrel it so i used it as my 300blk's "big brother" but 30 cal subs are 30 cal subs , it does give me much more case capacity for supers though

well i guess i know what caliber my next build will be

i'm going to be interested in what suppressor you go with , as i'm probably going to need one of those too

that thing is freaking awesome

very similar to how my build was shaping up but i ended up picking up a sidechick chassis as BCA was taking forever to deliver their chassis back then

Ballistic Advantage 8" for the barrel. It's a prefit for a solus action...screw in, torque, done.

Will definitely be turning necks on the LC, but in all likelihood, I'll probably just turn them all. Following your initial direction, I went over to the other forum and absorbed data.

Ordered dies and a gauge (obviously), but then went off to get smart on neck turning. Ultimately it seemed like there was the most amount of consensus with K&M tools. The problem I had with their site is OH MY GOD is it complicated. I'm a very experienced reloader...but in my own little silo. I've done common calibers and load dev and the "standard stuff" is easy. I went deep into 300blk when that came out and have also converted tons of it from 556. What I haven't done however, is anything that requires neck turning. 556 brass is so plentiful I just convert it, expand the mouth, and let a EGW gauge tell me if the neck is too thick. 1-5% loss to the recycler is plenty acceptable. But with 8.6, doing it that way would dramatically increase the loss rate...thus I viewed neck turning as a necessary step to both minimize waste and increase my pool of available usable brass for converting.

So, I called K&M and the guy that picked up gave me a lesson in how their site works and what I'd need to efficiently turn necks. Ordered a power case adapter, a little doodad to increase the efficiency of "loading" that tool, their neck turner, an appropriately sized expanding mandrel, as well as all the small parts needed to hold said mandrel. Nice that he seemed to know off the top of his head everything I'd need to make it happen smoothly. Downside is it was $$$$. Especially combined with the generally accepted need to anneal the brass (something I've never bothered to do). Between all the tooling, I'm probably into brass-prep equipment $600-700, even after getting the relatively cheap "ugly annealer" off Amazon.

I'll kick that reloading thread off with a "how I did it" on converting the brass once I verify that it actually works as expected. From what I've found, such a step-by-step tutorial does not exist, especially if you factor in the question of "what tools do I need?"

Moving on from that, I think it'll be really valuable to be able to collectively share load data like has been done in the master 300blk thread. It's (8.6) a super cool caliber, there's just so little consolidated or shared knowledge out there on it. Add to that...the "factory" published load data is old. Ex: The load data you see out there for "bolt gun only" subsonic lists powders that no longer exist, like VV's Tinstar.

@1iviper glad to hear someone else is into it!

I've got a Dead Air Nomax 33 paid for and awaiting a serial # assignment right now. Hoping to see that in a few weeks. It LOOKS like they'll be starting to get to distributors soon but none have actually made it to those distributors. RSR group has them listed as "coming soon" which usually means they'll turn up in a couple weeks. I'm still considering ordering a Rex MG10 or a "custom" Rex with some additional baffles making it like a MG15. Ultimately, even with the known performance of the Porq Chop, I couldn't get myself to accept their mounting solution. I want to be able to test different cans and chase decibels with this gun. Sticking with cans that will allow me to use plan B (HUB mounts) make those swaps a lot easier. That also lets me try a Hekate, Diligent Defense, or TBAC can if I can ever get my hands on one. But for now, the Nomax seems promising. Worst case, it sucks and I've got a nifty Ti 338 can.

I almost way overpaid for a Sidechick, not once but twice to build this gun.  I still think I'd be happier if I had.

i'm working on another project now so i probably have until the winter before i get started on a new project.  it will give me some time to start collecting components and see how your build progresses

yeah i bought it new and paid retail

it is a solid chassis for a folder though and i have no regrets now for spending the coin on it , i can't say that about some of my other gun or parts purchases

I didn’t even know that existed for standalone purchase! Those things look sooo nice.

Wound up going with an aero chassis solely because it was a screaming deal. But looked really hard at the pork sword because the folding aspect is awesome. Maybe knowing the side chick existed would have been a data point that could have made the porksword not look so spendy

In the latest Q podcast Kevin talked about this a bit. He is just back from Africa and did a ton of hunting. I think the gist of it was that the 12" is his preference for a do it all especially when supersonics are in play but the shorty with subs is amazing.

8” gets my vote.  Where I hunt, most shots are under 100 yards.

the aero chassis' look nice , i almost picked one up during the black friday sale along with an action

i've been wanting to do a build off a cadex chassis , maybe the 8.6 would be a good one for that.  could do a tucked can inside the rail on it