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Link Posted: 5/14/2024 11:37:25 AM EDT
[#1]



For further rabbit hole reading. Nola in the 1960’s was a crazy place.

https://a.co/d/5fkJoko
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 11:43:38 AM EDT
[#2]
JFK Speech on the Deep State/Global Cabal


More than likely the intelligence community was behind his assignation.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 11:56:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Yobro512] [#3]
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Originally Posted By d16man:

If someone on here were to do something like Oswald, we would probably all be interviewed and for sure their would be questionable relations(i.e. so and so knew so and so away from the board, and that person is the cousin twice removed from person 3, and then the wife of person 4, etc.).
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Originally Posted By d16man:
Originally Posted By Too-Tall:
It's an interesting story.

I've been to Dealey Plaza last month. Walked the place.

It's VERY VERY small...

https://i.ibb.co/znrmQnB/IMG-6904.jpg

When you look at the Zapruder film you get an idea how many people there were on the day in question. As in, not that many. I compared the movie with the number of tourists hanging around when I was there, it was about the same.

I find it VERY hard to believe that you could hide shooters in the supposed other locations (such as the grassy knoll, picket fence, or the drain in front) without them being very obvious. Even with the pomp and circumstance of the motorcade right in front of you, there's no way you could get away with it from the other locations.

The Book Depository window, looking down, it's a pretty easy shot from relative concealment. All you need to be, is extraordinarily lucky. And sometimes that is all it takes.

I will admit there are lots of interesting characters in the story. There's a saying, birds of the same feather flock together. So inevitably if you are of a certain character, you are more than likely to end up associating with similar people. Oswald was a loner and a stranger with loners and strangers as friends, he was chided and poked until he went too far down the rabbit hole (like we are currently) and he got extraordinarily lucky.

I can only imagine the collective puckering when all of his strange buddies read his name in the morning paper.

If someone on here were to do something like Oswald, we would probably all be interviewed and for sure their would be questionable relations(i.e. so and so knew so and so away from the board, and that person is the cousin twice removed from person 3, and then the wife of person 4, etc.).




Disagree with the assumptions here.

Yes we could just start putting interesting names on the board and doing 6 degrees of sir Francis bacon with mobsters and such. I get the “well I guess the mob, LBJ hit men, the CIA, the Cubans, and the Russians all ambushed JFK at the same time” thing.

But it’s simply not the case. Oswald PERSONALLY KNEW a number of people in intelligence after his military service. He called army intelligence from jail before he was personally assassinated. Oswald was supposedly never in intelligence.


The people in the OP are polar opposites of Oswald.

They were rabidly anti-communist activist working with intelligence agencies. Why we’re they hanging out with him?

Why did Oswald personally know so many spooks? So closely? Why did he start his own one man communist org in New Orleans alongside guy bannister and Ferrie. He literally hung out with deep state spooks like morenshildt. Mohrenshidt literally was told to help Oswald by another intelligence agency member.

Link Posted: 5/14/2024 11:57:24 AM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By feudist:
As best I can tell, the only people in the world who weren't in on the assassination were JFK and Oswald.

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"How the fuck many people does it take to kill a President these days?"
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Oswald knew a whole lot of important people, for being some dipshit ex-Marine defector to the Soviet Union.  That they let return.  With a general's daughter in tow.

Those poor bastards working for Ford in the USSR would have liked to have known that was an option.  Ditto Alexander Dolgun.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 12:01:55 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By Arty8:
At this point the only conspiracy theorists are the lone shooter crazies who think that Lee Harvey acted alone...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUzg8fynK98
View Quote


This is the YT channel that I came here to recommend if you want to go down the JFK/RFK/LBJ rabbit hole.

The involvement of the secret service alone and what they did is itself enough to prove this was a planned hit.

I truly hope DJT releases it all this time like he promised to.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 12:01:58 PM EDT
[#6]
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:

Which brings up the interesting phenomena of how each time all the Warren Commission’s unpublished records (on which the official report is based) are set to be fully declassified and released publicly, the CIA folks object.

The last release of documents (and then not all of them) was earlier this year; however, the CIA again objected and those that were made public were all highly redacted. Watters World even did a segment on the redacted release and had a well-known assassination researcher on the show to discuss the background details. The next night, IIRC, Watters interviewed RFK jr on this issue.

Considering that all the key “players” who were in any way related to some aspect of the assassination are themselves dead, you have to wonder what the information or connections are that the CIA still wants to keep hid from public scrutiny.
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:
Originally Posted By Arty8:
At this point the only conspiracy theorists are the lone shooter crazies who think that Lee Harvey acted alone...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUzg8fynK98

Which brings up the interesting phenomena of how each time all the Warren Commission’s unpublished records (on which the official report is based) are set to be fully declassified and released publicly, the CIA folks object.

The last release of documents (and then not all of them) was earlier this year; however, the CIA again objected and those that were made public were all highly redacted. Watters World even did a segment on the redacted release and had a well-known assassination researcher on the show to discuss the background details. The next night, IIRC, Watters interviewed RFK jr on this issue.

Considering that all the key “players” who were in any way related to some aspect of the assassination are themselves dead, you have to wonder what the information or connections are that the CIA still wants to keep hid from public scrutiny.


Would reveal sources and methods (including collaborators) in places where people have long memories and no compunction about taking out old vengeances on still-living family.  Cuba comes to mind.  Maybe the Mob, too?  Or the now Russian Federation.

There was, infamously, some Spanish-American War era secret they fought tooth and nail not to declassify.  Personally, wouldn't be shocked if papers existed indicating the motivation for US entry into either that war or WW1 were complete bullshit.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 12:02:51 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By Advance:
Now consider how much worse the black side of the govt. has gotten in the past 60 years.
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Can you imagine a modern-day Church Commission?
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 12:05:21 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By Wineraner:


Can you imagine a modern-day Church Commission?
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That ought to be a priority of everybody not running as a democrat.

But look at how much confirmed information we have on the coup effort against Trump during his term with absolutely no accountability for it. Congress makes noise but does nothing because most of them are in on it, too.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 12:18:40 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By Lexington:

If declassification is such a risk, then why haven't the documents been destroyed? (Or stuffed into Sandy Berger's shorts?)
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A lot of them have disappeared along with a bunch of evidence. Another rabbit hole I went down.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 1:05:44 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By jmt1271:

Fact
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Originally Posted By jmt1271:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
None of that holds a candle to what they did, and are still doing to Trump.  In real time, right under our own eyes.

Fact



Everyone reading this needs to track down the Tara Reade/Tucker Carlson interview and watch it.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 1:17:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Too-Tall] [#11]
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Originally Posted By Yobro512:




Disagree with the assumptions here.

Yes we could just start putting interesting names on the board and doing 6 degrees of sir Francis bacon with mobsters and such. I get the “well I guess the mob, LBJ hit men, the CIA, the Cubans, and the Russians all ambushed JFK at the same time” thing.

But it’s simply not the case. Oswald PERSONALLY KNEW a number of people in intelligence after his military service. He called army intelligence from jail before he was personally assassinated. Oswald was supposedly never in intelligence.


The people in the OP are polar opposites of Oswald.

They were rabidly anti-communist activist working with intelligence agencies. Why we’re they hanging out with him?

Why did Oswald personally know so many spooks? So closely? Why did he start his own one man communist org in New Orleans alongside guy bannister and Ferrie. He literally hung out with deep state spooks like morenshildt. Mohrenshidt literally was told to help Oswald by another intelligence agency member.

View Quote


Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 2:28:55 PM EDT
[#12]
There’s a pretty good case that the Zapruder film was doctored. Another rabbit hole. It was in possession of the Government for a day or two. And then under ice for several years by the buyer. I believe it was Life magazine.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 2:54:26 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By Oldgold:
There’s a pretty good case that the Zapruder film was doctored. Another rabbit hole. It was in possession of the Government for a day or two. And then under ice for several years by the buyer. I believe it was Life magazine.
View Quote


If you start to look at the Zapruder film as "the assassination was already ongoing" instead of "it shows the start of the assassination", it makes alot more sense to me. He himself admitted he started filming when the motorcycles appeared, then stopped, then started again after he saw the limo. This explains the wierd jump in the beginning. And with the first shot before the start of the segment, all of a sudden the timeline doesn't need to fit the framecount.

The Zapruder film is both the best piece of evidence, and the worst.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 3:03:31 PM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:
Originally Posted By Yobro512:




Disagree with the assumptions here.

Yes we could just start putting interesting names on the board and doing 6 degrees of sir Francis bacon with mobsters and such. I get the “well I guess the mob, LBJ hit men, the CIA, the Cubans, and the Russians all ambushed JFK at the same time” thing.

But it’s simply not the case. Oswald PERSONALLY KNEW a number of people in intelligence after his military service. He called army intelligence from jail before he was personally assassinated. Oswald was supposedly never in intelligence.


The people in the OP are polar opposites of Oswald.

They were rabidly anti-communist activist working with intelligence agencies. Why we’re they hanging out with him?

Why did Oswald personally know so many spooks? So closely? Why did he start his own one man communist org in New Orleans alongside guy bannister and Ferrie. He literally hung out with deep state spooks like morenshildt. Mohrenshidt literally was told to help Oswald by another intelligence agency member.



Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.

if 1 is the case, then why the continuing secrecy?
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 4:16:33 PM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By Seadra_tha_Guineapig:

if 1 is the case, then why the continuing secrecy?
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Embarrassment mainly, followed by the sheer size of the operation it would take to analyze and partially declassify, various intelligence programs that would be uncovered even if they are long closed down, and the fact that due to the diligence and scope pretty much every Tom Dick and Harry would be 'named' even if it would just be as random acquaintance, passer-by or 'I also know x'.

The simple fact is there can never be a total declassification, so it will always be a selective declassification. You could release the whole shebang, if one single word would be blacked out, well there's the proof! What don't they want us to know! Conspiracy!

Regarding the assassination, I vote Occams Razor.

Regarding the investigation and subsequent events up to and including this thread, I vote government incompetence.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 4:20:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yobro512:




Disagree with the assumptions here.

Yes we could just start putting interesting names on the board and doing 6 degrees of sir Francis bacon with mobsters and such. I get the “well I guess the mob, LBJ hit men, the CIA, the Cubans, and the Russians all ambushed JFK at the same time” thing.

But it’s simply not the case. Oswald PERSONALLY KNEW a number of people in intelligence after his military service. He called army intelligence from jail before he was personally assassinated. Oswald was supposedly never in intelligence.


The people in the OP are polar opposites of Oswald.

They were rabidly anti-communist activist working with intelligence agencies. Why we’re they hanging out with him?

Why did Oswald personally know so many spooks? So closely? Why did he start his own one man communist org in New Orleans alongside guy bannister and Ferrie. He literally hung out with deep state spooks like morenshildt. Mohrenshidt literally was told to help Oswald by another intelligence agency member.

View Quote



Oswald was intelligence, sort of.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 4:31:41 PM EDT
[#17]
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Originally Posted By Cycolac:

I believe Trump is still alive only because him getting whacked would open up so many cans of worms between alphabet agencies that it could just touch off the big igloo.

YMMV
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You underestimate the desperate situation they are all in right now.  He's going to beat every single charge and if not, still will win the Presidential election.  Mark my words.  An attempt will be made on his life.  The success of that attempt depends on the loyalty of his Secret Service detail.  If they succeed.  They will get the civil war they want and will burn the Constitution to put it down.  Jan 6th and the corresponding aftermath will look like a cake walk.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 4:39:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Did George Bush, Sr. have an office of his Zapata Oil/ Offshore in the Dal-Tex Building?
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 5:06:37 PM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By CommonwealthKid:
Did George Bush, Sr. have an office of his Zapata Oil/ Offshore in the Dal-Tex Building?
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Some sources claim he was in Dallas on that day and he was very allusive when asked.
Bottom line, if Oswald was a lone nut, every document on him and Jack Ruby and the assassination would have been released the day the Warren report was released. No redactions, because no one else would have been implicated.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 6:09:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Here is a weird take.  JFK Jr. asserts in an interview that the young Marine Lee Harvey Oswald was personally recruited by James Jesus Angleton(head of CIA counter-intelligence) to defect to Russia as part of a deep-cover counter-intelligence operation which was only known about by a compartmentalized few in the highest levels of US Intelligence.

Angleton believed that there was a Soviet mole in the uppermost ranks of CIA, and he thought the Soviets would inevitably be prompted by the defection of this apparent nobody--who also had the sweetener of having worked as a radar operator at Naval Air Station Atsugi where the U2 spy flights originated--to query their mole for all available information about Oswald--and they would be carefully monitoring access to his file, which was used as bait.

Assuming this was true, Oswald would have never shared this information his Russian wife.  Ever.  His entire life (including poverty and joblessness) would have been part of an ongoing disinformation operation directed at the Soviets, trying to get their attention, prompt a query, and thereby smoke out Angleton's suspected mole.

Assuming this was true, Oswald would have expected Marina to be relaying information back to Russia, either as part of a clandestine surveillance operation herself or simply in her communications with family back home, communications which would (of course) have been intercepted and scrutinized by the KGB.  If so--Oswald's immediate "confession" to Marina about his "failed" assassination attempt against General Walker seems a bit more interesting.  Would Marina have been able to resist the temptation to share that information with her relatives back home?  What are the chances the "assasination attempt" was all set up as a bullshit psyop?  And is it possible that Oswald thought the JFK assasination was another bullshit psyop?

Just spitballing here.  But it's interresting stuff.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 6:29:02 PM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.
View Quote


You give some textual examples that are somewhat pervasive but your options are the options of a disinformation glowie. Basically Oswald acted alone is what your saying and our shady gov had nothing to do with it and we should ignore shitloads of shady ass evidence. Sure thing. Keep glowing.


Link Posted: 5/14/2024 7:07:30 PM EDT
[#22]
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Originally Posted By chronium76:


You give some textual examples that are somewhat pervasive but your options are the options of a disinformation glowie. Basically Oswald acted alone is what your saying and our shady gov had nothing to do with it and we should ignore shitloads of shady ass evidence. Sure thing. Keep glowing.


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Originally Posted By chronium76:
Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.


You give some textual examples that are somewhat pervasive but your options are the options of a disinformation glowie. Basically Oswald acted alone is what your saying and our shady gov had nothing to do with it and we should ignore shitloads of shady ass evidence. Sure thing. Keep glowing.


The...uh "Glowies"...cares enough about a) the JFK assassination from 60+ years ago, and b) ARFcoms opinion of it that c) they assign a disinformation operative to influence a random thread about it even though there's been a billion dollar a year Conspiracy Publishing Industry and eleventy billion TV shows about it since the late 60s?

If that's true, then they really are all powerful. Or you have Deep State Derangement Syndrome...which is where my money is at.
Also, does my agreeing with him and mocking you automatically qualify me for a Glowie Rewards Card?
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 7:22:03 PM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By feudist:
The...uh "Glowies"...cares enough about a) the JFK assassination from 60+ years ago, and b) ARFcoms opinion of it that c) they assign a disinformation operative to influence a random thread about it even though there's been a billion dollar a year Conspiracy Publishing Industry and eleventy billion TV shows about it since the late 60s?

If that's true, then they really are all powerful. Or you have Deep State Derangement Syndrome...which is where my money is at.
Also, does my agreeing with him and mocking you automatically qualify me for a Glowie Rewards Card?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By feudist:
Originally Posted By chronium76:
Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.


You give some textual examples that are somewhat pervasive but your options are the options of a disinformation glowie. Basically Oswald acted alone is what your saying and our shady gov had nothing to do with it and we should ignore shitloads of shady ass evidence. Sure thing. Keep glowing.


The...uh "Glowies"...cares enough about a) the JFK assassination from 60+ years ago, and b) ARFcoms opinion of it that c) they assign a disinformation operative to influence a random thread about it even though there's been a billion dollar a year Conspiracy Publishing Industry and eleventy billion TV shows about it since the late 60s?

If that's true, then they really are all powerful. Or you have Deep State Derangement Syndrome...which is where my money is at.
Also, does my agreeing with him and mocking you automatically qualify me for a Glowie Rewards Card?


It’s Autists.    

All the way down.  
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 8:11:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By feudist:
The...uh "Glowies"...cares enough about a) the JFK assassination from 60+ years ago, and b) ARFcoms opinion of it that c) they assign a disinformation operative to influence a random thread about it even though there's been a billion dollar a year Conspiracy Publishing Industry and eleventy billion TV shows about it since the late 60s?

If that's true, then they really are all powerful. Or you have Deep State Derangement Syndrome...which is where my money is at.
Also, does my agreeing with him and mocking you automatically qualify me for a Glowie Rewards Card?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By feudist:
Originally Posted By chronium76:
Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.


You give some textual examples that are somewhat pervasive but your options are the options of a disinformation glowie. Basically Oswald acted alone is what your saying and our shady gov had nothing to do with it and we should ignore shitloads of shady ass evidence. Sure thing. Keep glowing.


The...uh "Glowies"...cares enough about a) the JFK assassination from 60+ years ago, and b) ARFcoms opinion of it that c) they assign a disinformation operative to influence a random thread about it even though there's been a billion dollar a year Conspiracy Publishing Industry and eleventy billion TV shows about it since the late 60s?

If that's true, then they really are all powerful. Or you have Deep State Derangement Syndrome...which is where my money is at.
Also, does my agreeing with him and mocking you automatically qualify me for a Glowie Rewards Card?



Mocking me? Are you saying that the government doesn't employ disinformation? Are you also agreeing that there is no conspiracy, Oswald acted alone,  everything is a coincidence and the gov is clean and on the up and up? Is that your position?

Mine is one of a healthy distrust for any narrative that attempts to whitewash the obvious government fuckery, but your right that should be mocked. Lol sure thing bud.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 9:15:50 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.
View Quote




i really appreciate your skepticism and it really does a good job of cutting through some potential Bs. Not completley convincing though.

those arent the only 2 options.

a black op is simply "off the books" an anonymous handler and financier funding and incentivizing hit men is the typical black op and as common as it got.

Oswald was a communist defector to russia after being in the marines. He came back after marrying a Russian general's daughter.

He was given jobs by deep state high up cia friends and actors. That is no lie. His Friends literally were close to the first lady.

He started his own branches of communists organizations. while hanging with SEVERELY violent militia members and ardent anti-communists. People who were funded by the CIA at a time. People who just invaded cuba.

few appreciate how batshit insane the CIA was between 1945-1990.

Operation mongoose, operation 40 existed, operation northwoods existed. there are many straight up unbelieveable stories about all the operations and straegies they had.

allen dulles was a ferocious canniving piece of shit who had the CIA doing all of this all over the planet for decades. He and everyone with his name was fired from the federal govt. by kennedy.

2 years later kennedy was assassinated by oswald. with ferrie fleeing texas back to New Orleans making up alibis.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 9:25:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yobro512:



i really appreciate your skepticism and it really does a good job of cutting through some potential Bs. Not completley convincing though.
those arent the only 2 options.
a black op is simply "off the books" an anonymous handler and financier funding and incentivizing hit men is the typical black op and as common as it got.
Oswald was a communist defector to russia after being in the marines. He came back after marrying a Russian general's daughter.
He was given jobs by deep state high up cia friends and actors. That is no lie. His Friends literally were close to the first lady.
He started his own branches of communists organizations. while hanging with SEVERELY violent militia members and ardent anti-communists. People who were funded by the CIA at a time. People who just invaded cuba.
few appreciate how batshit insane the CIA was between 1945-1990.
Operation mongoose, operation 40 existed, operation northwoods existed. there are many straight up unbelieveable stories about all the operations and straegies they had.
allen dulles was a ferocious canniving piece of shit who had the CIA doing all of this all over the planet for decades. He and everyone with his name was fired from the federal govt. by kennedy.
2 years later kennedy was assassinated by oswald. with ferrie fleeing texas back to New Orleans making up alibis.
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Originally Posted By Yobro512:
Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Everything I've seen and read about Oswald, to me indicates a not too bright young man, who possibly got carried away thinking or being made to think he was something special. From his time in the Service to his defection, his return, his hanging around 'spooks', or wannabe spooks, or retired spooks, or people who know spooks,... The (entertaining but not terribly factual) movie JFK shows that environment perfectly. Lots of semi-important people trying to look and sound important, maybe trying to recreate a special environment that existed only a few years prior...the war...and then there's the marginal people hanging around them trying to get some of the magic to rub off on themselves.

He also didn't call "Army Intelligence", he called a number (admittedly where he got the number from is a mystery) of someone who worked in Army Intelligence during the War. Like a few 10.000 people did. The interview with the owner of the phone number HERE reads to me like....a nothingburger. Someone working for "Government Black Ops" who is bedridden, struggling on disability, and who has the same phone number for years afterwards?

Apart from the extraordinary luck Oswald would have needed, the other factor is that the world is a very small place. Dallas in the 1950-1960's, even smaller...just take this as my (favorite) example:

Abraham Zapruder worked at a Dallas Sportswear Company for a time, with a woman named Jeanne Legon. In 1959 that woman married...George S. De Mohrenschildt.

Now, does this mean Zapruder was part of it all? Or was it just....chance? And if THAT connection is chance, why are the others indication of a conspiracy?

In 1962 Jeanne and George befriended a local immigrant from Russia, Marina Oswald, and her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald. Only a few dozen families with Russian or Soviet roots lived in DFW at the time, and they were all close. They all knew each other. Chance, or conspiracy? Expats seeking eachother, is this unheard of?

Now De Mohrenschildt was indeed a CIA asset....like the thousands of businessmen doing business abroad who were debriefed by the CIA and asked to "keep an eye out" at that time. He did manage to talk it up, and he paid the price in the years afterwards, being hounded by the press. I think De Mohrenschildt is the key, he is the spider in the center of the web........of shit-talkers, that others gravitated to.

Another great example is Oswald and Ferrie. The Civil Air Patrol.

Oswald and Bannister? The washed-up former FBI, former police, former everything, who hung out in bars and talked to everyone about everything? Either the worst secret agent in history, or just another one of the tough-talking crowd of drunks...

Look at Ruby, the man who was known to be a badge bunny, possibly the clearest example of hasn't-been and never-was there can be.

Now, did all the talk and scheming and 'look at us badasses' lead to Oswald acting alone, or to Oswald acting alone while thinking he was part of something bigger? If so, did his 'friends' only encourage him verbally, or did they give him material support or funds? Where did they draw the line, did they actually help? The provenance of his rifle (using the clumsy alias, bought by himself, for himself), to me indicates that even the most basic logistics (the gun) were handled not by a fellow member of the conspiracy, but by the man Oswald himself.

Everything after the assassination looks exactly like how I expect a government in shock to function. Badly. Some people turn to the rulebook and follow it religiously, others throw the rulebook out because of "special circumstances". Some are ineffective, others see opportunity. Accounts were settled, fingers pointed. This, set against the backdrop of the Red Menace, in the world of Hoover and the CIA, generated thousands of memo's that are all automatically stamped top-secret. All it shows is lack of effective governance, embarassment, an overbearing intelligence apparatus, and in the end, something that can only be:
-1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
-2. a massive conspiracy and coverup you couldn't keep secret if you tried.

I vote 1.



i really appreciate your skepticism and it really does a good job of cutting through some potential Bs. Not completley convincing though.
those arent the only 2 options.
a black op is simply "off the books" an anonymous handler and financier funding and incentivizing hit men is the typical black op and as common as it got.
Oswald was a communist defector to russia after being in the marines. He came back after marrying a Russian general's daughter.
He was given jobs by deep state high up cia friends and actors. That is no lie. His Friends literally were close to the first lady.
He started his own branches of communists organizations. while hanging with SEVERELY violent militia members and ardent anti-communists. People who were funded by the CIA at a time. People who just invaded cuba.
few appreciate how batshit insane the CIA was between 1945-1990.
Operation mongoose, operation 40 existed, operation northwoods existed. there are many straight up unbelieveable stories about all the operations and straegies they had.
allen dulles was a ferocious canniving piece of shit who had the CIA doing all of this all over the planet for decades. He and everyone with his name was fired from the federal govt. by kennedy.
2 years later kennedy was assassinated by oswald. with ferrie fleeing texas back to New Orleans making up alibis.

Kennedy and Dulles hated each other  …. But if I recall correctly, Dulles was appointed to the Warren Commission, no?  
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 7:59:54 AM EDT
[#27]
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Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Yep, agreed. Otherwise, there'd be no reason keep the files under lock and key for so long.
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Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Originally Posted By Gator96:
I think the only reason any of that shit is still classified is because it either shows the CIA was actively engaged in killing Kennedy, or they knew of a Soviet or Cuban plot to kill him, and let it happen...so passively engaged in killing him.

Yep, agreed. Otherwise, there'd be no reason keep the files under lock and key for so long.
Or Bush Sr was involved.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 8:15:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Too-Tall] [#28]
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Originally Posted By chronium76:


You give some textual examples that are somewhat pervasive but your options are the options of a disinformation glowie. Basically Oswald acted alone is what your saying and our shady gov had nothing to do with it and we should ignore shitloads of shady ass evidence. Sure thing. Keep glowing.


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I don't know what the "glowie" thing means, sorry.

I don't believe in any of the full-blown conspiracy theories.

I don't believe 'the government' (CIA, Johnson, Pentagon,...) could keep it secret.

I don't believe the Russians were crazy enough to do it.

I don't believe Castro would have the means to do it.

I don't believe the Mob would want the attention.

There is plenty of material linking Oswald to the assassination. A lot of it is very thin, but real life usually is. And back in those days, without much of the technology we have come to take for granted, it is what I would expect.

There is also plenty of material linking some of the other actors listed above to the assassination. All of that is pretty thin too.

Now, I admit I LOVE reading about conspiracy theories, but as you get older in life, I've found that whenever you learn something truly bizarre, usually the most simple explanation ends up being the right one.

When a presidential election is a foregone conclusion but then unexpectedly the outsider beats the establishment, and the following election the results are truly bizarre, and that upsetting outsider loses by a hair, what does that indicate?

When a special virus spreads from a city that just so happens to house a special lab, that specializes in those kinds of special viruses, what does that indicate?

When a sitting president is assassinated, and someone with a known hatred for that president is demonstrated to be linked to the location, the weapon, the timeframe, and is shown to have motive, means, opportunity, and has previously acted on serious threats (Walker) what does that indicate?

The only remaining question for me is, did he act alone or did he have some form of help, and if so, to what degree? When in a dark smoky room someone said "one of us should shoot the sob", and Oswald piped up and said "I''ll do it", did they mock him? Or did he have help? Did they pat him on the back? Did they slip him some money? Or was it as simple as someone *not* reporting it because he secretly agreed with the sentiment, so Oswald couldn't be stopped?

His circumstances (means and standard of living), The location (his work, his floor, don't believe there is room for the "other shooters" on Dealey Plaza), The rifle (purchased by himself, send to himself, stored by himself) lead me to believe he acted alone without much help, if any.

His behavior prior to the assassination (During enlistment, defection, marriage, return, choice of associates) to me are not the actions of a person trained in intelligence, but of someone that is lost, looking for attention, and not too bright.

His behavior after the assassination (Running away, taking the bus, getting off the bus and taking a cab, changing clothes, getting a gun, shooting a policeman, doubling back often) look like me to a man both panicking and trying to hide, without a plan, in addition to the above.

The reactions of the plethora of shady characters somehow linked to Oswald make me think they collectively shat themselves and said "holy shit he did it, he actually did it, if it ever comes out I had a beer/talked/was seen with/agreed with/am linked to him, I'll go to jail forever!"

The reaction of the Federal Government to me shows panic, embarrassment, disbelief, but nothing that to me indicates a conspiracy on their part.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 8:28:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Too-Tall] [#29]
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Originally Posted By Yobro512:

Oswald was a communist defector to russia after being in the marines. He came back after marrying a Russian general's daughter.

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I think if the Russians wanted to kill JFK, they wouldn't have picked someone like Oswald. In the past and present, when the Russian Government wants someone dead, they do it themselves. KGB/FSB trained agents from either Russia or the Eastern Block. Russians don't trust anyone, they most certainly wouldn't trust someone like Oswald. Get his (worthless) information after defection, sure, use his defection as propaganda, but that's it. So in this scenario, the Russians used Oswald to blame Cuba, so they could...immediately have their proxy invaded by the US...so they would have to A. abandon their ally Cuba and be shown to be cowards or B. defend their ally Cuba and go to war? At a time when they knew they weren't at parity with the US? Meanwhile the weak JFK was replaced by a hawk leading the USA that's frothing at the mouth to destroy the killers of their beloved JFK? JFK was a godsend to the Russians.

I think if the CIA wanted to kill JFK for any reason, he would have died in his sleep.

I think if the CIA wanted to kill JFK and blame the Russians so they could invade Cuba, they would have used someone with STRONGER ties to Russia then the oddball Oswald. Also, if that's the case, why didn't they go to Cuba then? The US would have invaded on the 23rd. The CIA assassinated a president, only to change their minds, or am I to believe they got cold feet?

The 'CIA+Military Industrial Complex+Johnson=Vietnam' - theory? Do you think a politician like LBJ would RISK getting involved in something like that? Just prior to JFK, Eisenhower had the following scandals; Brandywine, Lobbygate, the U-2 incident, Kefauver Committee, the Memorial bs, the Army-McCarty hearings, just to name a few. Even back in those days before Twitter and the iPhone you couldn't keep a simple political grift secret, let alone plotting to assassinate a sitting president so you can take his place.

I just don't buy it.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 8:37:02 AM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By Lexington:

If declassification is such a risk, then why haven't the documents been destroyed? (Or stuffed into Sandy Berger's shorts?)
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Originally Posted By Lexington:
Originally Posted By Gator96:
I think the only reason any of that shit is still classified is because it either shows the CIA was actively engaged in killing Kennedy, or they knew of a Soviet or Cuban plot to kill him, and let it happen...so passively engaged in killing him.

If declassification is such a risk, then why haven't the documents been destroyed? (Or stuffed into Sandy Berger's shorts?)


Persuasion
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 8:59:26 AM EDT
[#31]
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:

Kennedy and Dulles hated each other  …. But if I recall correctly, Dulles was appointed to the Warren Commission, no?  
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By LBJ. Hmmmmm!
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:01:38 AM EDT
[#32]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


I think if the Russians wanted to kill JFK, they wouldn't have picked someone like Oswald. In the past and present, when the Russian Government wants someone dead, they do it themselves. KGB/FSB trained agents from either Russia or the Eastern Block. Russians don't trust anyone, they most certainly wouldn't trust someone like Oswald. Get his (worthless) information after defection, sure, use his defection as propaganda, but that's it.

I think if the CIA wanted to kill JFK, he would have died in his sleep.

I think if the CIA wanted to kill JFK and blame the Russians so they could invade Cuba, they would have used someone with STRONGER ties to Russia then the oddball Oswald. Also, if that's the case, why didn't they go to Cuba then? The US would have invaded on the 23rd. Did they go to all the risk and trouble only to change their minds, or am I to believe they got cold feet?

The 'CIA+Military Industrial Complex+Johnson=Vietnam' - theory? Do you think a politician like LBJ would RISK getting involved in something like that? Just prior to JFK, Eisenhower had the following scandals; Brandywine, Lobbygate, the U-2 incident, Kefauver Committee, the Memorial bs, the Army-McCarty hearings, just to name a few. Even back in those days before Twitter and the iPhone you couldn't keep a simple political grift secret, let alone plotting to assassinate a sitting president so you can take his place.

I just don't buy it.
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You left out Jack Ruby?
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:02:48 AM EDT
[#33]
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Originally Posted By Oldgold:

You left out Jack Ruby?
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What is your theory on Jack Ruby?
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:03:12 AM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By Yobro512:




Disagree with the assumptions here.

Yes we could just start putting interesting names on the board and doing 6 degrees of sir Francis bacon with mobsters and such. I get the “well I guess the mob, LBJ hit men, the CIA, the Cubans, and the Russians all ambushed JFK at the same time” thing.

But it’s simply not the case. Oswald PERSONALLY KNEW a number of people in intelligence after his military service. He called army intelligence from jail before he was personally assassinated. Oswald was supposedly never in intelligence.

The people in the OP are polar opposites of Oswald.

They were rabidly anti-communist activist working with intelligence agencies. Why we’re they hanging out with him?

Why did Oswald personally know so many spooks? So closely? Why did he start his own one man communist org in New Orleans alongside guy bannister and Ferrie. He literally hung out with deep state spooks like morenshildt. Mohrenshidt literally was told to help Oswald by another intelligence agency member.

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This photograph was taken in a nightclub in Mexico City on 22nd January, 1963. It
is believed that the men in the photograph are all members of Operation 40. It has been argued that closest to the camera on the left is Felix Rodriguez. Next to him is Porter Goss and Barry Seal. Tosh Plumlee is attempting to hide his face with his coat. Others in the picture are Alberto 'Loco' Blanco (3rd right) and Jorgo Robreno (4th right).

Interestingly, Plumlee said he met Lee Harvey Oswald before the assassination at a U.S. military training center.

Connect any of these people with the Kennedy Assassination even peripherally?

Porter Goss
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:07:57 AM EDT
[#35]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:
1. a shitshow of happenstance of epic proportions
2. a massive conspiracy and coverup.

I vote 1.
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LOL.  Then there would be no classified documents so desperately hidden for so long.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:20:31 AM EDT
[#36]
"to splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds."
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:23:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Too-Tall] [#37]
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Originally Posted By sprtpilot:

LOL.  Then there would be no classified documents so desperately hidden for so long.
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Originally Posted By sprtpilot:

LOL.  Then there would be no classified documents so desperately hidden for so long.

Article
Too many documents are classified in the first place. The federal government classifies more than 50 million documents a year. It’s difficult, if not impossible, to keep track of all of them. Some get lost and found years later — and many more are likely still out there.So officials tend to play it safe. In many agencies, officials “face no downsides for over-classifying something,” said a former special counsel at the Pentagon. “But if you under-classify something, really dire consequences could come for you.” Of the more than 50 million documents classified every year, just 5 to 10 percent warrant the classification. One example of the extremes of classification: In a cable leaked by Chelsea Manning, an official marked details of wedding rituals in the Russian region of Dagestan as “confidential” — as if most such details were not already well known in a region of more than three million people.


This is a (real) example:

Someone (person X) has their mail forwarded because they want to keep an address somewhere where they don't live. This mail arrives at the actual address via a certain way. Because of this certain way, every piece of mail gets indicated.

How much spam mail do you get at home? I'm talking credit card applications, flyers for lawn care, vouchers for the local hardware store?

Every single piece. Indicated. Tracked. Logged. Classified. Numbered. No distinction, no filtering, because that would take too much time.

X doesn't want this. The organisation doesn't want this. Every single person involved in this crazy process doesn't want this. But decisions are made by middle-management, and the rules are the rules, as they were back in the '60s.

Lets imagine this person sells Lee Harvey Oswald a used car in 1961. Do you want the job to "declassify" this? Do you think it's reasonable for anyone to do that?

Now fast forward. "there are 10.000 classified memos about X, who we KNOW sold a car to Oswald! We asked the Government to declassify, but they don't want to. What do they have to hide! This is a clear indication of the involvement of X in this, and 1+1=2, ergo, conspiracy!"
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:40:00 AM EDT
[#38]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:

Article


This is a (real) example:

Someone (person X) has their mail forwarded because they want to keep an address somewhere where they don't live. This mail arrives at the actual address via a certain way. Because of this certain way, every piece of mail gets indicated.

How much spam mail do you get at home? I'm talking credit card applications, flyers for lawn care, vouchers for the local hardware store?

Every single piece. Indicated. Tracked. Logged. Classified. Numbered. No distinction, no filtering, because that would take too much time.

X doesn't want this. The organisation doesn't want this. Every single person involved in this crazy process doesn't want this. But decisions are made by middle-management, and the rules are the rules, as they were back in the '60s.

Lets imagine this person sells Lee Harvey Oswald a used car in 1961. Do you want the job to "declassify" this? Do you think it's reasonable for anyone to do that?

Now fast forward. "there are 10.000 classified memos about X, who we KNOW sold a car to Oswald! We asked the Government to declassify, but they don't want to. What do they have to hide! This is a clear indication of the involvement of X in this, and 1+1=2, ergo, conspiracy!"
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:
Originally Posted By sprtpilot:

LOL.  Then there would be no classified documents so desperately hidden for so long.

Article
Too many documents are classified in the first place. The federal government classifies more than 50 million documents a year. It’s difficult, if not impossible, to keep track of all of them. Some get lost and found years later — and many more are likely still out there.So officials tend to play it safe. In many agencies, officials “face no downsides for over-classifying something,” said a former special counsel at the Pentagon. “But if you under-classify something, really dire consequences could come for you.” Of the more than 50 million documents classified every year, just 5 to 10 percent warrant the classification. One example of the extremes of classification: In a cable leaked by Chelsea Manning, an official marked details of wedding rituals in the Russian region of Dagestan as “confidential” — as if most such details were not already well known in a region of more than three million people.


This is a (real) example:

Someone (person X) has their mail forwarded because they want to keep an address somewhere where they don't live. This mail arrives at the actual address via a certain way. Because of this certain way, every piece of mail gets indicated.

How much spam mail do you get at home? I'm talking credit card applications, flyers for lawn care, vouchers for the local hardware store?

Every single piece. Indicated. Tracked. Logged. Classified. Numbered. No distinction, no filtering, because that would take too much time.

X doesn't want this. The organisation doesn't want this. Every single person involved in this crazy process doesn't want this. But decisions are made by middle-management, and the rules are the rules, as they were back in the '60s.

Lets imagine this person sells Lee Harvey Oswald a used car in 1961. Do you want the job to "declassify" this? Do you think it's reasonable for anyone to do that?

Now fast forward. "there are 10.000 classified memos about X, who we KNOW sold a car to Oswald! We asked the Government to declassify, but they don't want to. What do they have to hide! This is a clear indication of the involvement of X in this, and 1+1=2, ergo, conspiracy!"

not sure if AI or glowie
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:51:27 AM EDT
[#39]
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Originally Posted By Seadra_tha_Guineapig:

not sure if AI or glowie
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I wish it could be done by AI, I'm the idiot tracking all the numbers in this example
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:59:15 AM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By Advance:
"to splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds."
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“Rest in peace Mr. President (JFK), through your wisdom and strength, since your tragic death, Patriots have planned, installed, and by the grace of God, activated, the beam of LIGHT. We will forever remember your sacrifice. May you look down from above and continue to guide us as we ring the bell of FREEDOM and destroy those who wish to sacrifice our children, our way of life, and our world. We, the PEOPLE.”
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:05:49 AM EDT
[#41]
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Well, they were so common they could be bought in surplus from a magazine.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:24:45 AM EDT
[#42]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:
It's an interesting story.

I've been to Dealey Plaza last month. Walked the place.

It's VERY VERY small...

https://i.ibb.co/znrmQnB/IMG-6904.jpg

When you look at the Zapruder film you get an idea how many people there were on the day in question. As in, not that many. I compared the movie with the number of tourists hanging around when I was there, it was about the same.

I find it VERY hard to believe that you could hide shooters in the supposed other locations (such as the grassy knoll, picket fence, the Dal-Tex building, or the drain in front) without them being very obvious. Even with the pomp and circumstance of the motorcade right in front of you, there's no way you could get away with it from the other locations.

The Book Depository window, looking down, it's a pretty easy shot from relative concealment. All you need to be, is extraordinarily lucky. And sometimes that is all it takes.

I will admit there are lots of interesting characters in the story. There's a saying, birds of the same feather flock together. So inevitably if you are of a certain character, you are more than likely to end up associating with similar people. Oswald was a loner and a stranger with loners and strangers as friends, he was chided and poked until he went too far down the rabbit hole (like we are currently) and he got extraordinarily lucky.

I can only imagine the collective puckering when all of his strange buddies read his name in the morning paper.
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  I haven’t been there so that’s a good perspective to look at.
I think it’s worth considering that the focus on the President would have distracted the crowd.  This is pre internet and cell phone days and a time when the president was respected as an institution.   They were star struck back then.
  Also lots of witness did claim they heard shots from forward of the motorcade.   I remember the one guy talking about using a XP 100 in .221 Fireball.   Maybe he was a quack maybe not, but that would be a very capable weapon.
  I watched the Oliver Stone documentary last night .  I came away with a very strong impression that every Doctor that was not under the influence of the government said the back was an exit wound.    I’m not an expert, but I’ve shot enough game to come to the same opinion.  Not once have I ever seen an entry wound larger than the exit.  I have seen them come out non linear    Everything after Parkland is sketchy.     You have an entire ER with matching statements conflicting all that was reported after the body was back in DC.

   As far as Oswald .   The photo of him and the rifle vs the one recovered are different.  I think he was involved I’m just not entirely sure how. I am convinced he was setup to take the fall though.  The magic bullet looks like it was shot into a recovery trap.  No way that thing did everything they said and came out looking like that.   I can’t find info on the jacket thickness so I can’t be certain about expansion. I am certain at even modest velocity that we we see a lot more deformation.  I mean the grooves aren’t even scuffed.   It supposedly hit both rib and a wrist.
 
     I can’t explain that away to believe Oswald was the lone gunman.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:42:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Notthisshitagain.gif
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:16:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Too-Tall] [#44]
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Originally Posted By mc556:

  I haven’t been there so that’s a good perspective to look at.
I think it’s worth considering that the focus on the President would have distracted the crowd.  This is pre internet and cell phone days and a time when the president was respected as an institution.   They were star struck back then.
  Also lots of witness did claim they heard shots from forward of the motorcade.   I remember the one guy talking about using a XP 100 in .221 Fireball.   Maybe he was a quack maybe not, but that would be a very capable weapon.
  I watched the Oliver Stone documentary last night .  I came away with a very strong impression that every Doctor that was not under the influence of the government said the back was an exit wound.    I’m not an expert, but I’ve shot enough game to come to the same opinion.  Not once have I ever seen an entry wound larger than the exit.  I have seen them come out non linear    Everything after Parkland is sketchy.     You have an entire ER with matching statements conflicting all that was reported after the body was back in DC.

   As far as Oswald .   The photo of him and the rifle vs the one recovered are different.  I think he was involved I’m just not entirely sure how. I am convinced he was setup to take the fall though.  The magic bullet looks like it was shot into a recovery trap.  No way that thing did everything they said and came out looking like that.   I can’t find info on the jacket thickness so I can’t be certain about expansion. I am certain at even modest velocity that we we see a lot more deformation.  I mean the grooves aren’t even scuffed.   It supposedly hit both rib and a wrist.
 
     I can’t explain that away to believe Oswald was the lone gunman.
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Excellent points!

About the crowd being distracted, I can see that. I have no frame of reference to state with certainty "back in the day people would behave like this or that compared to now". I personally think people today are more passive, afraid of being involved, and like you say busy on their phone. Maybe in 1963 people would be quicker to respond, maybe several of the combat vets would have had the presence of mind to run, chase, tackle, detain, or fight with, the gunman emerging from the storm drain in the middle of the road, carrying a gun. They didn't, because the gunman was busy stashing his rifle on the Sixt Floor. Was it Oswald? I have heard alot of theories but few credible about a "strange man OTHER than Oswald in the Book Depository". The only strange man confirmed on the Sixt Floor shortly before the shooting, is Oswald. The only strange man confirmed to have exited the building shortly after the shooting, is Oswald. The building wasn't sealed, and there was opportunity. But still...

The headwound, "back and to the left" does appear strange, and to me is maybe the most compelling indication against the lone gunman. However, if you agree with THIS study, it basically sais that the wound wasn’t where the bullet exited, but where it entered. It demonstrates that a temporary cavity formed inside the president’s soft tissue as the momentum and kinetic energy of the bullet smashed into his skull, causing his head to snap forward. It looks strange, but it reads as, well, physics.

The timing of the shots works if you agree that in the Zapruder film the first shot is fired off-camera.

The trajectory of the magic bullet can be explained if you agree with the assessment that the positioning in the limo of both JFK and Connally was not 'straight and level' behind each other like Oliver Stone shows, but in reality JFK was sitting higher and more outboard on a regular seat, while Connally was sitting on a "jumpseat" that was lower and more inboard. All of a sudden the strange "mid-air" S-shape disappears. Look at the pictures of the limo, see how far apart JFK and Jackie are. Look how close together Connally and his wife are sitting. JFK is practically hanging over the side, Connally is snug against the inside of the door card.

Why the 'single bullet theory' in JFK assassination is impossible


The "pristine" bullet found at Parkland...I think it was pristine for a reason. I doubt it was ever fired by Oswald. I think someone in LE (FBI under pressure to solve the investigation, or SS who just lost their principal) planted it because they panicked and wanted to save face, solve the case, fix the unfixable. I mean, read this article and let me know what you think. Does this story sound plausible to you? Or are we maybe reading the half-baked attempt by that pressured individual who planted it back then, to explain it one last time?
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:28:54 AM EDT
[#45]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Excellent points!

About the crowd being distracted, I can see that. I have no frame of reference to state with certainty "back in the day people would behave like this or that compared to now". I personally think people today are more passive, afraid of being involved, and like you say busy on their phone. Maybe in 1963 people would be quicker to respond, maybe several of the combat vets would have had the presence of mind to run, chase, tackle, detain, or fight with, the gunman emerging from the storm drain in the middle of the road, carrying a gun. They didn't, because the gunman was busy stashing his rifle on the Sixt Floor. Was it Oswald? I have heard alot of theories but few credible about a "strange man in the Book Depository". The only strange man confirmed on the Sixt Floor shortly before the shooting, is Oswald. The only strange man confirmed to have exited the building shortly after the shooting, is Oswald. The building wasn't sealed, and there was opportunity. But still...

The headwound, "back and to the left" does appear strange, and to me is maybe the most compelling indication against the lone gunman. However, if you agree with THIS study, it basically sais that the wound wasn’t where the bullet exited, but where it entered. It demonstrates that a temporary cavity formed inside the president’s soft tissue as the momentum and kinetic energy of the bullet smashed into his skull, causing his head to snap forward. It looks strange, but it reads as, well, physics.

The timing of the shots works if you agree that in the Zapruder film the first shot is fired off-camera.

The trajectory of the magic bullet can be explained if you agree with the assessment that the positioning in the limo of both JFK and Connally was not 'straight and level' behind each other like Oliver Stone shows, but in reality JFK was sitting higher and more outboard on a regular seat, while Connally was sitting on a "jumpseat" that was lower and more inboard. All of a sudden the strange "mid-air" S-shape disappears. Look at the pictures of the limo, see how far apart JFK and Jackie are. Look how close together Connally and his wife are sitting. JFK is practically hanging over the side, Connally is snug against the inside of the door card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss8XOQD1hEE

The "pristine" bullet found at Parkland was pristine for a reason. I don't think it was never fired by Oswald. I think someone in LE (FBI under pressure to solve the investigation, or SS who just lost their principal) planted it because they panicked and wanted to save face, solve the case, fix the unfixable. I mean, read this article and let me know what you think. Does this story sound plausible to you? Or are we maybe reading the half-baked attempt at that pressured individual who planted it back then, to explain it one last time?
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The Bullet Hole in the windshield was repaired immediately.  Look it up.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:45:56 AM EDT
[#46]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


What is your theory on Jack Ruby?
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He was mob connected. That’s been proven.
He was heavily involved with Dallas Law enforcement. That’s proven.
He got an important phone call just before going to shoot Oswald.
Allegedly he had a meeting with Oswald weeks before according to some eyewitnesses.
He supposedly told Dorothy Killgallen the entire truth a few days before her  alleged  suicide.
The story of his murdering the murderer to revenge the First Lady smells to high Heaven.

The only person powerful enough to cover this up was the President and the alphabet agencies. Remember at the time, the mob and CIA were pretty much bed fellows.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:49:34 AM EDT
[#47]
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Originally Posted By Too-Tall:


Excellent points!

About the crowd being distracted, I can see that. I have no frame of reference to state with certainty "back in the day people would behave like this or that compared to now". I personally think people today are more passive, afraid of being involved, and like you say busy on their phone. Maybe in 1963 people would be quicker to respond, maybe several of the combat vets would have had the presence of mind to run, chase, tackle, detain, or fight with, the gunman emerging from the storm drain in the middle of the road, carrying a gun. They didn't, because the gunman was busy stashing his rifle on the Sixt Floor. Was it Oswald? I have heard alot of theories but few credible about a "strange man in the Book Depository". The only strange man confirmed on the Sixt Floor shortly before the shooting, is Oswald. The only strange man confirmed to have exited the building shortly after the shooting, is Oswald. The building wasn't sealed, and there was opportunity. But still...

The headwound, "back and to the left" does appear strange, and to me is maybe the most compelling indication against the lone gunman. However, if you agree with THIS study, it basically sais that the wound wasn’t where the bullet exited, but where it entered. It demonstrates that a temporary cavity formed inside the president’s soft tissue as the momentum and kinetic energy of the bullet smashed into his skull, causing his head to snap forward. It looks strange, but it reads as, well, physics.

The timing of the shots works if you agree that in the Zapruder film the first shot is fired off-camera.

The trajectory of the magic bullet can be explained if you agree with the assessment that the positioning in the limo of both JFK and Connally was not 'straight and level' behind each other like Oliver Stone shows, but in reality JFK was sitting higher and more outboard on a regular seat, while Connally was sitting on a "jumpseat" that was lower and more inboard. All of a sudden the strange "mid-air" S-shape disappears. Look at the pictures of the limo, see how far apart JFK and Jackie are. Look how close together Connally and his wife are sitting. JFK is practically hanging over the side, Connally is snug against the inside of the door card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss8XOQD1hEE

The "pristine" bullet found at Parkland was pristine for a reason. I don't think it was never fired by Oswald. I think someone in LE (FBI under pressure to solve the investigation, or SS who just lost their principal) planted it because they panicked and wanted to save face, solve the case, fix the unfixable. I mean, read this article and let me know what you think. Does this story sound plausible to you? Or are we maybe reading the half-baked attempt at that pressured individual who planted it back then, to explain it one last time?
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Plus the chain of evidence for the magic bullet would never hold up in court.
Another rabbit hole if you so desire.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 12:07:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Too-Tall] [#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4-AK:

The Bullet Hole in the windshield was repaired immediately.  Look it up.
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Are you sure about that? I don't think the windshield was repaired immediately, there's a statement from someone working at Ford that he used the actual windshield as a template to make a new one to fit the beefed-up frame of the limo. He saw the windshield was cracked.

Concerning the limo, what I believe the timeline to be is:
-It arrived at Parkland.
-It was guarded by Dallas PD.
-Parkland employees were ordered by the SS to "bring a bucket to clean out the limo".
-Spot cleaning happened by the SS (wiping down the seats).
-The bubble top was placed on the limo.
-It flew with the follow-up car back to Andrews and on to the White House Garage. Agent Kellerman testified he inspected the limo there and saw the cracks.
-Bethesda Naval Hospital staff collected forensic evidence in the morning, including taking the pictures used by the Warren Commission.

The windscreen was used as a template during the rebuild process, during removal it cracked more (NOT the bullethole present after the assassination) and after it was destroyed in the glass crusher afterwards. Conflicting statements are; "it was a clean hole" i.e. a bullethole, or "the inside was smooth only the outside was cracked", which due to the construction of the glass (2 layer laminate) would point to an impact from INSIDE (counter-intuitive but if you hit one side of double-paned laminated auto glass of the era it cracks the other layer, not the one you hit). This could have been caused by a bullet or something else hitting the windscreen from the inside.

Personally, again, this is a car that was shot at. What are the odds it *isn't* from the shooting? I think it was propably a bullethole (no idea which of the bullets or fragments).

Asking for "a bucket to clean", points to a conspiracy. Or, the agent in question behaved like he just got a Jeep in France in 1944 and he needed to get rid of the blood of the previous owner, reverting to his experiences in combat. In hindsight this blatant disregard for forensic evidence is startling. For someone in the 1960's, not so much. A man got shot. There's gore, brains, and blood on the inside of a car that I'm responsible for. Lets act, let's fix THIS because it's the only thing we CAN fix, everything else we failed miserably at. Let's get it clean, and by wiping away the blood we wipe away the embarrassment of failure to protect our principal.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 12:24:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Too-Tall] [#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Oldgold:

He was mob connected. That’s been proven.
He was heavily involved with Dallas Law enforcement. That’s proven.
He got an important phone call just before going to shoot Oswald.
Allegedly he had a meeting with Oswald weeks before according to some eyewitnesses.
He supposedly told Dorothy Killgallen the entire truth a few days before her  alleged  suicide.
The story of his murdering the murderer to revenge the First Lady smells to high Heaven.

The only person powerful enough to cover this up was the President and the alphabet agencies. Remember at the time, the mob and CIA were pretty much bed fellows.
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Mob - agreed
LE - agreed
Call - agreed
Mob and CIA working together at various moments in history - agreed

Everything else about Ruby, 'allegedly' seems about right. He was known to hang around Law Enforcement, gave favors, even went to funerals of officers. They called him a "coffee sargeant". He was a nightclub owner, trying to make it in life. He WANTED to be connected to the mob. He WANTED to be connected to LE. They were his customers! The best judges of character are a person's friends. In Ruby's case, they described him as a "publicity hound," "glad hander," and "name dropper," one always seeking to be the center of attention. He was known to constantly seek reassurance from persons he admired.

He was told where Oswald was going to be, when he needed to be there, and all the offending officer who gave the information thought was "Hell, I'll let Ruby in so he can be in the pictures and I'll get some free drinks at the Carousel."

I think Ruby expected to be given a medal and a ticker-tape parade. Or, at most, a slap on the wrist.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 12:31:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doom1430:
You underestimate the desperate situation they are all in right now.  He's going to beat every single charge and if not, still will win the Presidential election.  Mark my words.  An attempt will be made on his life.  The success of that attempt depends on the loyalty of his Secret Service detail.  If they succeed.  They will get the civil war they want and will burn the Constitution to put it down.  Jan 6th and the corresponding aftermath will look like a cake walk.
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That wouldn't be difficult to do, as Jan. 6th was pretty much literally nothing. It certainly wasn't an insurrection (who the hell brings flags instead of weapons to an insurrection, anyway?) and it was a pretty weak ass riot, too.

BTW, Marina Oswald was quite attractive back in the day and she's still alive.
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