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When they reach around for the deadbolt to unlock it, they'll probably cut the crap out of their arms and leave lots of DNA behind.
From time to time, they also manage to do serious damage to their veins and arteries and either bleed out or leave a nice visible trail to where they ran off to. |
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Originally Posted By Bat15: That looks great. What happens when the 3/4" screws holding the strike plate pull out of the 2x4? How cheap is the lumber the builder used? Security is often lacking in modern construction. I was surprised to see plastic sheets used on my outside walls. Supposedly more energy efficient than zip board but adds noting to the structure. I am glad the house is brick on three sides. Do I g the back would add almost $4k and would not change the walls on the porch. The extra cost didn't seem worth it with 4 big windows on the wall. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Bat15: Originally Posted By Alacrity: Entirely true, tho there's many things large and small that can be done. Door jamb reinforcement retrofit to smart design at build. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/IMG_1739_jpeg-3208026.JPG There's some serious door products out there, many European tho That looks great. What happens when the 3/4" screws holding the strike plate pull out of the 2x4? How cheap is the lumber the builder used? Security is often lacking in modern construction. I was surprised to see plastic sheets used on my outside walls. Supposedly more energy efficient than zip board but adds noting to the structure. I am glad the house is brick on three sides. Do I g the back would add almost $4k and would not change the walls on the porch. The extra cost didn't seem worth it with 4 big windows on the wall. Attached File Attached File @Bat15 You mean like this? I'm unsure even a jam reinforcement kit would have helped. It was professionally breached tho. But it and replacing the 3/4 (or whatever is in originally) with 1 1/2 - 3 inch can improve performance. Security screens are something else unmentioned. In my case the previous designer/owner wasn't entirely security concerned. They did some good things - much concrete (too much for easy WiFi so there's draw backs) with stone facing interior and exterior, but this was due to design, the owners family biz and a desire for thermal mass. Main entry door is massive and solid wood (which required significant framing) - others security steel. Again design. Lighting was good, property is large, wooded and gated with some terrain obstacles to the house (ravine, streams). There were some security systems. But the locks sucked, many of the systems were obsolete, lacking redundancy and passive, and there's a shitload of glass. Luckily some of that had already been mitigated and easy enough to fix what wasn't. Garage openers needed swapped out. Fencing was adequate. Removable bollards were installed to restrict access when gone for long periods. No home will be a fortress, nor do I want one. But it made little sense to me to throw up my hands either. If there's a determine crew, they will get in. But hopefully I've made it difficult enough I'll deter them or shorten their time if they miss something. The SATG phenomenon has become a serious issue that didn't exist when my current primary was built, so I'm not criticizing the former owners. But I think I opened their eyes a bit. From everything I've discussed with security professionals, the real risk is owners/family members,/caretakers/staff failing to secure or arm. So if you do that, you're ahead of many of the peeps who get got. |
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Originally Posted By panthermark: We have a nice front door like that. Top half is glass, plus a transom and full sidelights. We have a deadbolt because the front door handle does not have a lock. Thus it is only way to look the door. I'm also assuming a lot of doors come already cut with a hole for a deadbolt. Sorta like this. Note the lack of a keyhole/lock on the main door handle. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevewilliamskitchens.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2Ffront-door-with-sidelights-3.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=6be2eb3e53494a497761940a1896e218190a5accd54c8b3dec75cbea46b09758&ipo=images View Quote My door is very similar setup and the lock setup is the same so deadbolt is required. |
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Originally Posted By MaxxII: When they reach around for the deadbolt to unlock it, they'll probably cut the crap out of their arms and leave lots of DNA behind.[color=#ff0000] From time to time, they [/color]also manage to do serious damage to their veins and arteries and either bleed out or[color=#ff0000] leave a nice visible trail to where they ran off to.[/color] View Quote |
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"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do."
Ex Poop Flinging Gremlin #51 |
Originally Posted By panthermark: We have a nice front door like that. Top half is glass, plus a transom and full sidelights. We have a deadbolt because the front door handle does not have a lock. Thus it is only way to look the door. I'm also assuming a lot of doors come already cut with a hole for a deadbolt. Sorta like this. Note the lack of a keyhole/lock on the main door handle. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stevewilliamskitchens.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2Ffront-door-with-sidelights-3.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=6be2eb3e53494a497761940a1896e218190a5accd54c8b3dec75cbea46b09758&ipo=images View Quote Similar situation here. Handle is just a handle, electronic lock is the only lock. Glass block down the side. There are windows 6' away. If someone wants to get in they will, I'm not living in a jail cell. |
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n/m
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Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: What is the point of a lock if they can be picked in less than 30 seconds? Most locks people have on their doors can be picked in seconds. Also if you do not reinforce your door most doors can be kicked in within one or two good solid kicks. The majority of homes have a door that is easily defeated with a pick or kick in seconds. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: Originally Posted By Hunter8282: Say it's a nice front entry door. Roughly the top half is glass. Or even has side glass panels. What's the point of installing a keyed entry door handle and a deadbolt? If someone wants in they'll just break the glass. What is the point of a lock if they can be picked in less than 30 seconds? Most locks people have on their doors can be picked in seconds. Also if you do not reinforce your door most doors can be kicked in within one or two good solid kicks. The majority of homes have a door that is easily defeated with a pick or kick in seconds. The reason why scum generally don’t pick locks, is return on investment in time. I started teaching myself lockpicking when I was 12(?) simply out of curiosity, and too many James Bond movies and spy novels. It takes many, many dozens of hours of practice to develop the touch to quickly pick most locks you might encounter. Which is why scum just kick the doors in. Heck, you don’t even see SWAT picking door locks. |
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Originally Posted By ceetee: Locks only keep honest people honest, and make unmotivated dishonest people move on. There are hurricane-rated glass-front doors that will withstand even a well-motivated Marine trying to kick them in. Even so, the window a few feet away was able to be smashed in. So let's go back to "locks only keep honest people honest." View Quote Same concept as car alarms. A car alarm doesn't prevent a thief from breaking a car window taking your stuff, just deters them from dealing with the hassle of the alarm and higher risk of being caught. |
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I ain’t in no ways tired of winning yet!
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From years of watching internet videos from my armchair, it seems like thieves will usually try to kick in a door rather than trying to break a glass panel on the door. A deadbolt will probably hold up to a couple more kicks than a locking doorknob. The deadbolt buys you time. At least a few seconds. Those few extra seconds might represent a 300% increase in time to react.
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Originally Posted By MeInMediocrity: From years of watching internet videos from my armchair, it seems like thieves will usually try to kick in a door rather than trying to break a glass panel on the door. A deadbolt will probably hold up to a couple more kicks than a locking doorknob. The deadbolt buys you time. At least a few seconds. Those few extra seconds might represent a 300% increase in time to react. View Quote Entirely Fair. We had a member who faced this and defended himself sitting at his table. But I think the question somewhat limits answers. We've discussed strategies for glass, especially doors - physical improvement (rated lam or retro film, maybe screens other glass, security storms are another option), double key locks, door and jamb improvements - and reactive like glass break and contact alarms. But if there are barriers - fences, gates, walls, etc - I'd want to know if someone bypassed those. I'd absolutely want to be immediately warned there's activity in my curtilage (even if its wildlife or pets) It's not difficult or expensive, tho it's not always possible to orient equipment easily to limit FOV from public spaces when the property has limited area. Security cams used the be the province of the stunningly rich (recall Beverly Hills Cop monitor scene) - but good system with alerting aren't that expensive. Tho they can be intrusive. So far we've mostly talked about hardening and little about warning. |
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Originally Posted By bluemax_1: The reason why scum generally don't pick locks, is return on investment in time. I started teaching myself lockpicking when I was 12(?) simply out of curiosity, and too many James Bond movies and spy novels. It takes many, many dozens of hours of practice to develop the touch to quickly pick most locks you might encounter. Which is why scum just kick the doors in. Heck, you don't even see SWAT picking door locks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By bluemax_1: Originally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: Originally Posted By Hunter8282: Say it's a nice front entry door. Roughly the top half is glass. Or even has side glass panels. What's the point of installing a keyed entry door handle and a deadbolt? If someone wants in they'll just break the glass. What is the point of a lock if they can be picked in less than 30 seconds? Most locks people have on their doors can be picked in seconds. Also if you do not reinforce your door most doors can be kicked in within one or two good solid kicks. The majority of homes have a door that is easily defeated with a pick or kick in seconds. The reason why scum generally don't pick locks, is return on investment in time. I started teaching myself lockpicking when I was 12(?) simply out of curiosity, and too many James Bond movies and spy novels. It takes many, many dozens of hours of practice to develop the touch to quickly pick most locks you might encounter. Which is why scum just kick the doors in. Heck, you don't even see SWAT picking door locks. Had a guy who demonstrated his skill numerous times. Did something with locks after that mainly because of him Great guy, just kidding. Realize he's an outlier, but it made me aware how easily common commercial locks were defeated, by people I wouldn't have expected. |
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Originally Posted By Alacrity: Id be more worried about Picks and Bump Keys. When your dealing with people who will force a door, break glass, snap locks, etc - there's areas you can harden (some with glass) but there's an awful lot of ways to gain access if desired. Take a look at the sophisticated and not so sophisticated ways SATGs gain entry. They defeat some pretty decent security. But often much of that security has been compromised by the home owner, or insufficient planning (failure of recognition) at build or installation. View Quote I did house sitting for a bunch of people over the years who would constantly forget to leave me keys. It's pretty amusing how many houses the front door would be locked up tight, but the window next to it unlatched. Spare keys in completely obvious spots, dog door that you could reach the knob through, etc. |
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Time and attention are the things that work for or against burglars. There is NOTHING that can be fully protected against someone who has technical skill and equipment and the time and privacy to use it.
Under the right circumstances, someone who wants to come in can stroll up and bypass a doorknob lock as fast and casually as you’d open it with a key. That can’t be done with a deadbolt locked, and he now has to consider the surroundings before be breaks the glass, because someone who sees him may call the police. If he breaks the glass and the deadbolt is keyed on the inside, he has to find another route in or move on. All of this is done woth some degree of exposure and burns time. |
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Dildos don't even make me raise an eyebrow anymore... you've got to have something a whole lot weirder than that in your rectum if you want to impress me. - TheGrayMan
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Originally Posted By Alacrity: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/IMG_4806_jpeg-3208332.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/IMG_4807_jpeg-3208336.JPG @Bat15 You mean like this? I'm unsure even a jam reinforcement kit would have helped. It was professionally breached tho. But it and replacing the 3/4 (or whatever is in originally) with 1 1/2 - 3 inch can improve performance. Security screens are something else unmentioned. In my case the previous designer/owner wasn't entirely security concerned. They did some good things - much concrete (too much for easy WiFi so there's draw backs) with stone facing interior and exterior, but this was due to design, the owners family biz and a desire for thermal mass. Main entry door is massive and solid wood (which required significant framing) - others security steel. Again design. Lighting was good, property is large, wooded and gated with some terrain obstacles to the house (ravine, streams). There were some security systems. But the locks sucked, many of the systems were obsolete, lacking redundancy and passive, and there's a shitload of glass. Luckily some of that had already been mitigated and easy enough to fix what wasn't. Garage openers needed swapped out. Fencing was adequate. Removable bollards were installed to restrict access when gone for long periods. No home will be a fortress, nor do I want one. But it made little sense to me to throw up my hands either. If there's a determine crew, they will get in. But hopefully I've made it difficult enough I'll deter them or shorten their time if they miss something. The SATG phenomenon has become a serious issue that didn't exist when my current primary was built, so I'm not criticizing the former owners. But I think I opened their eyes a bit. From everything I've discussed with security professionals, the real risk is owners/family members,/caretakers/staff failing to secure or arm. So if you do that, you're ahead of many of the peeps who get got. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Alacrity: Originally Posted By Bat15: Originally Posted By Alacrity: Entirely true, tho there's many things large and small that can be done. Door jamb reinforcement retrofit to smart design at build. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/IMG_1739_jpeg-3208026.JPG There's some serious door products out there, many European tho That looks great. What happens when the 3/4" screws holding the strike plate pull out of the 2x4? How cheap is the lumber the builder used? Security is often lacking in modern construction. I was surprised to see plastic sheets used on my outside walls. Supposedly more energy efficient than zip board but adds noting to the structure. I am glad the house is brick on three sides. Do I g the back would add almost $4k and would not change the walls on the porch. The extra cost didn't seem worth it with 4 big windows on the wall. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/IMG_4806_jpeg-3208332.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/14291/IMG_4807_jpeg-3208336.JPG @Bat15 You mean like this? I'm unsure even a jam reinforcement kit would have helped. It was professionally breached tho. But it and replacing the 3/4 (or whatever is in originally) with 1 1/2 - 3 inch can improve performance. Security screens are something else unmentioned. In my case the previous designer/owner wasn't entirely security concerned. They did some good things - much concrete (too much for easy WiFi so there's draw backs) with stone facing interior and exterior, but this was due to design, the owners family biz and a desire for thermal mass. Main entry door is massive and solid wood (which required significant framing) - others security steel. Again design. Lighting was good, property is large, wooded and gated with some terrain obstacles to the house (ravine, streams). There were some security systems. But the locks sucked, many of the systems were obsolete, lacking redundancy and passive, and there's a shitload of glass. Luckily some of that had already been mitigated and easy enough to fix what wasn't. Garage openers needed swapped out. Fencing was adequate. Removable bollards were installed to restrict access when gone for long periods. No home will be a fortress, nor do I want one. But it made little sense to me to throw up my hands either. If there's a determine crew, they will get in. But hopefully I've made it difficult enough I'll deter them or shorten their time if they miss something. The SATG phenomenon has become a serious issue that didn't exist when my current primary was built, so I'm not criticizing the former owners. But I think I opened their eyes a bit. From everything I've discussed with security professionals, the real risk is owners/family members,/caretakers/staff failing to secure or arm. So if you do that, you're ahead of many of the peeps who get got. @Alacrity I think the framing is good. My concern was the poly guard sheathing instead of using zip board or something like that. This is what they used and seems to be common around here. Attached File The house is not a fortress but at least three sides are brick. The backyard is fenced so the fourth side has some protection. I will replace the screws if necessary. I feel safer here than in my suburban Chicago area home. I would have liked a safe room for the storms. My old house had a basement and I kind of miss it. |
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Double dead bolt is a thing.
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Originally Posted By Bat15: @Alacrity I think the framing is good. My concern was the poly guard sheathing instead of using zip board or something like that. This is what they used and seems to be common around here. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/426621/IMG_0450_jpeg-3208693.JPG The house is not a fortress but at least three sides are brick. The backyard is fenced so the fourth side has some protection. I will replace the screws if necessary. I feel safer here than in my suburban Chicago area home. I would have liked a safe room for the storms. My old house had a basement and I kind of miss it. View Quote Is the concern the material of the wall? I've never seen a case of any through wall entry in a residential burglary. I'd think it's probably more rare than second story entry. Peeps mostly don't think that way. But I get it, cutting through drywall into a locked room is easier than forcing a lock. But yea OSB is better, and high grade ply prolly more secure. Really rare event tho. Generally the focus is on doors and windows but as I quipped above there been cases of skylights but not your normal thief. I watch ladders on premises. Attached File This is what I was describing. Less an issue but if someone had sledges, maybe Jamb armor will do a pretty good job of stopping insta-forced doors with a good deadbolt (I'm not even sure you need a grade 1 just a long throw, not that it would hurt) in most exterior doors. If that's a concern, there a bunch of stops to choose from if someone is home to enable. If the concern is drilling, picking, snapping, bumping etc, then resistant locks get spendy. |
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