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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:42:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tallahasseezz: Why do I always click on these threads. Because this is peak GD |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:44:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Remember that movie with Tawny Kitaen?
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:45:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Last time we did one of these threads I went to two regular Walmarts and a white person walmart to find one. The amount of unhinged DMs I received trying to save my immortal soul was unreal. I sleep with mine under my pillow. Occasionally I use it t talk to deceased friends.... I know it's just demons, but I don't care. At least I'll know them when I get there. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:48:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! - Carlin |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:49:16 PM EDT
[#5]
As a kid my grandma would tell me about all the horrible shit that would happen if I messed with Ouija boards or played DnD. Then she would get together with my aunt and do evp ghost hunting shit in her own house
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:53:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: What is the basis for your knowlege? The complete lack of evidence that any of it is real. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:54:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tomac]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -daddy: The pearl clutchers will be here soon with all sorts of bullshit stories. I watched my older sister play with one of those when we were kids (she was a teenager at the time). I will never go near one of those things. Don't try to tell me the things I witnessed w/my own eyes are 'bullshit' unless you're ready to call me a liar. ETA- For the inevitable requests: 1) She asked whatever she was communicating with if the lights were too bright in the kitchen. The kitchen fuse promptly blew. 2) She asked whatever she was communicating with to show her a sign, a shadow moved across the kitchen (nighttime so no sunlight coming through the windows) and our kitten who was sleeping on its bed in the kitchen immediately woke up and started playing/batting at something unseen in the air. 3) Every time she used that board, the Cuckoo clock (old-style w/the weights) in the adjacent dining room would stop. Nothing we could do would make it run again. Until she stopped, then the clock started up again on its own, every single time. I witnessed all this with my own eyes, so play with them at your own spiritual risk. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:54:32 PM EDT
[#8]
I knew exactly what this thread would be and boy I wasn't disappointed.
 Ouija boards are silly games but gave us some pretty decent movies so I'm good with it. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:56:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomac: I watched my older sister play with one of those when we were kids (she was a teenager at the time). I will never go near one of those things. Don't try to tell me the things I witnessed w/my own eyes are 'bullshit' unless you're ready to call me a liar. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomac: Originally Posted By -daddy: The pearl clutchers will be here soon with all sorts of bullshit stories. I watched my older sister play with one of those when we were kids (she was a teenager at the time). I will never go near one of those things. Don't try to tell me the things I witnessed w/my own eyes are 'bullshit' unless you're ready to call me a liar. Please stop with all the information!
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Posted: 5/8/2024 12:59:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JustinU235]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: OK. Let's explore that. What is the basis for your knowlege? This man (below) has conducted hundreds of formal Exorcisms. That is HIS basis of knowledge. Now I'm sure that you, in your wisdom, assume that he sees every silly superstitious gullible rube and histrionic housewife who darkens the door of their local parish--but in fact, he does not. Those silly suggestible gullible individuals are first interviewed by trained psychologists and doctors and social workers to rule out natural causes underpinning whatever phenomena they are experiencing and--unsurprisingly--99.5 percent of them are found NOT to be candidates for the Formal Rite of Exorcism, but are instead referred to medical doctors and psychologists/psychiatrists for treatment. In order to be referred to HIM, there needs to be clear and unmistakable signs of the presence of the supernatural according to the guidelines set down by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. So it's a pretty impressive (and carefully vetted) data set sitting in the chair opposite him. And it is understandable that you personally have had no such experince with such a data set. And why would you? You are a spiritually unremarkable atheist living a spiritually unremarkable life surrounded on all sides by others with the same sensibilities. Your chances of running into this stuff are pretty much a bullet-proof zero. Given that, I would ask again--what is the basis for what you presume to be your "knowledge"?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls92Wiptv0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1XtG7COFy0I'd also be curious--if you deign to actually watch the videos and study this priest's face for signs of deception as he speaks--what are the tells that you find that he is stupid or insane or just making things up out of whole cloth? He seems to me to be fairly reasonable and articulate and well-educated--and speaking the truth of the world as he himself has experienced it first-hand. No thanks. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:00:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: The complete lack of evidence that any of it is real.
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:00:46 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:02:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustinU235: He was the main driver of the 20 page thread. Not jumping in his car. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustinU235: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: The complete lack of evidence that any of it is real. I find that unsurprising
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:03:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Please stop with all the information! See the ETA in my post above. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:06:52 PM EDT
[#15]
If anyone hasn't seen "Nefarious," watch it. It may explain a lot for you about evil, and how it manifests in our lives.
Even if it doesn't, it's still a fantastic movie. |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:07:21 PM EDT
[#16]
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:10:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tomac: 1) She asked whatever she was communicating with if the lights were too bright in the kitchen. The kitchen fuse promptly blew. 2) She asked whatever she was communicating with to show her a sign, a shadow moved across the kitchen (nighttime so sunlight coming through the windows) and our kitten who was sleeping on its bed in the kitchen immediately woke up and started playing/batting at something unseen in the air. 3) Every time she used that board, the Cuckoo clock (old-style w/the weights) in the adjacent dining room would stop. Nothing we could do would make it run again. Until she stopped, then the clock started up again on its own, every single time. I witnessed all this with my own eyes, so play with them at your own spiritual risk. johncandyohsurememe.gif
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:25:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tomac]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sixpointfivejap: johncandyohsurememe.gif Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sixpointfivejap: Originally Posted By Tomac: 1) She asked whatever she was communicating with if the lights were too bright in the kitchen. The kitchen fuse promptly blew. 2) She asked whatever she was communicating with to show her a sign, a shadow moved across the kitchen (nighttime so sunlight coming through the windows) and our kitten who was sleeping on its bed in the kitchen immediately woke up and started playing/batting at something unseen in the air. 3) Every time she used that board, the Cuckoo clock (old-style w/the weights) in the adjacent dining room would stop. Nothing we could do would make it run again. Until she stopped, then the clock started up again on its own, every single time. I witnessed all this with my own eyes, so play with them at your own spiritual risk. johncandyohsurememe.gif Go ahead and scoff, it's your eternity. This stuff's too serious for me to make fun of. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:35:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kc-coyote: Well, you may feel quite differently when you die and are standing in front of God. Unfortunately by then it will be too late. Life on earth is short. Eternity is forever. I Appreciate the concern. If that is what that was |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:39:37 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm not superstitious but I am little stitiuous so no, would not use.
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Posted: 5/8/2024 1:40:02 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 5/8/2024 4:30:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AbleArcher]
[#22]
Anyone else noticing a staggering amount of dead birds in their yard this year? Healthy looking birds that look as though they've just dropped straight out of the sky?
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Posted: 5/8/2024 4:31:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Anyone else noticing a staggering amount of dead birds in their yard this year? Healthy looking birds that look as though they've just dropped straight out of the sky? |
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Posted: 5/8/2024 9:07:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustinU235: Birds aren't real. Those are government drones whose batteries ran out. EMP fried their circuits. Based North Korea is trying to free us from the Great Satan homoglobe. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:05:49 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Interesting cultural observation. I'd categorize blowing out candles as a superstitious "luck" ritual. Violating Abrahamic prohibitions against Divination and Necromancy is in a slightly different category. I'm actually surprised at how deeply embedded reading coffee grounds and tea leaves (on a "lark") by elderly women immigrant cultures is. It seems to be supplanted by the newspaper horoscope. my great grandmother read tea leaves, and stopped when she accurately predicted my great grandfathers death. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:08:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Tarkan]
[#26]
It really shouldn't surprise any rational person that people who think some god knocked up an teenage virgin, thus giving them a prophet, are afraid of a cardboard game.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 4:24:53 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Last time we did one of these threads I went to two regular Walmarts and a white person walmart to find one. The amount of unhinged DMs I received trying to save my immortal soul was unreal. Lol |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 4:49:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Wait until you guys find out about the Magic Eight ball?
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Posted: 5/9/2024 7:32:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: The complete lack of evidence that any of it is real. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By Eight_Ring: What is the basis for your knowlege? The complete lack of evidence that any of it is real. hubris [ hyoo-bris, hoo- ] Phonetic (Standard) IPA noun excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 7:42:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sandbowl1980: I tried divining rods once. After someone recommended it. I had a 100x100 ft area that there was a water line under it...somplace. it was about 4 feet underground. So I said, "What the heck? What have I got to lose?" Because there was no way I was going to find it because I'm not digging a bunch of 4-foot holes. So, I tried these divining rods. I walked all over the lot, and finally, it crossed. We laughed and started digging. About 4 ft down there, it was  The first and only time I ever tried this. I honestly do not know what to think. But when it crossed. I dug, and there was a water line.  As far as these boards go. I don't know and I do not care because I'm not having one in my home. I believe there are things out there beyond our comprehension. I also believe if I see something and I shoot it and it does not fall down. It's not there. But I'm still not going to hang around to verify it |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 8:05:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Yes Yes.....Oui yes in French Ja Yes in German That is how they named the toy.
That being said that it is a toy, our minds are powerful. We don't know how powerful. Some folks can do incredible things if they know how to unleash that power. The power of suggestion is a powerful tool. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 8:59:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tarkan: It really shouldn't surprise any rational person that people who think some god knocked up an teenage virgin, thus giving them a prophet, are afraid of a cardboard game. Believe what you like but remember, choices have consequences. I suggest you read my sig line. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:27:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Toy or not, I ain't playing with one.
I've got enough issues in my life and would rather not add "accidentally opening the gates of Hell" to the list.
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:15:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: hubris [ hyoo-bris, hoo- ] Phonetic (Standard) IPA noun excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By Eight_Ring: What is the basis for your knowlege? The complete lack of evidence that any of it is real. hubris [ hyoo-bris, hoo- ] Phonetic (Standard) IPA noun excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance. What excessive pride am I displaying when I point out there's no evidence? If I'm wrong, feel free to provide evidence otherwise perhaps it's YOU that needs to check his hubris. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 12:54:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: hubris [ hyoo-bris, hoo- ] Phonetic (Standard) IPA noun excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance. The irony is that you think he's the one with hubris. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 12:57:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: What excessive pride am I displaying when I point out there's no evidence? If I'm wrong, feel free to provide evidence otherwise perhaps it's YOU that needs to check his hubris. Originally Posted By 1Andy2: The irony is that you think he's the one with hubris. 20 pages of that in the old thread.
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Posted: 5/9/2024 1:14:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: patsue]
[#37]
The board has no power at all. It is about what is going on in the mind, will, and beliefs of the one using it. Demons are deceivers. Nefarious movie gets a lot right about this stuff.
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Posted: 5/9/2024 1:21:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustinU235: 20 pages of that in the old thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustinU235: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: What excessive pride am I displaying when I point out there's no evidence? If I'm wrong, feel free to provide evidence otherwise perhaps it's YOU that needs to check his hubris. Originally Posted By 1Andy2: The irony is that you think he's the one with hubris. 20 pages of that in the old thread. Wild right? "There's no evidence of that" "You think you know everything?!?" Like...no...I'm saying the exact opposite. I KNOW nothing except there's no evidence. He also KNOWS nothing. Then he posts the exact definition of what HE'S doing lol. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 1:39:23 PM EDT
[#39]
So hasbro is the maker of these, they would have to be in league with the devil to continue to make them right? So would that thereby taint their entire product line? No more nerf? Do we start referring to them as devil darts?
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Posted: 5/9/2024 1:42:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: So hasbro is the maker of these, they would have to be in league with the devil to continue to make them right? So would that thereby taint their entire product line? No more nerf? Do we start referring to them as devil darts? I bet the CEO sold his soul to the debbil in exchange for worldly success. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 1:44:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tarkan]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: So hasbro is the maker of these, they would have to be in league with the devil to continue to make them right? So would that thereby taint their entire product line? No more nerf? Do we start referring to them as devil darts? All the religious types who had matchbox cars as kids were in league with Moloch! |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 1:52:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Eight_Ring]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Wild right? "There's no evidence of that" "You think you know everything?!?" Like...no...I'm saying the exact opposite. I KNOW nothing except there's no evidence. He also KNOWS nothing. Then he posts the exact definition of what HE'S doing lol. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By JustinU235: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: What excessive pride am I displaying when I point out there's no evidence? If I'm wrong, feel free to provide evidence otherwise perhaps it's YOU that needs to check his hubris. Originally Posted By 1Andy2: The irony is that you think he's the one with hubris. 20 pages of that in the old thread. Wild right? "There's no evidence of that" "You think you know everything?!?" Like...no...I'm saying the exact opposite. I KNOW nothing except there's no evidence. He also KNOWS nothing. Then he posts the exact definition of what HE'S doing lol. Actually I asked a very clear question in my post. I absolutely understand that what the priest was saying/asserting in that video clip challenges the fundamental prinicples of reality as many perceive it--and I asked what (apart from consensus reality) informed his (JustinU235's) deep and detailed understanding of the subject matter, and also asked what "tells", facial expressions or mannerisms, there were that led him (or any other viewer) to the ironclad conclusion that the priests was simply lying. Or stupid. Or clearly delusional in his perceptions--because I myself didn't see any. How about you? How do you explain the divergence of HIS description and understanding of the shape of reality versus YOUR understanding of the shape of reality? Is he lying? Do you suppose he is just crazy? How do you explain the divergence of HIS personal, lived experience from you own? Do you suppose that--if only you could sit him down for a good talking to--that you could make him understand that in fact HE (a seasoned Exorcist) doesn't know anything, and that YOU somehow, by virtue of your thorough and scrupulous skepticism, hold the keys to reality? As for "proof"? I imagine that after several hundred exorcisms HE has all the proof that HE needs--but I do understand that is not and won't ever be enough "proof" for you to believe. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:00:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AbleArcher]
[#43]
Nerf, play doh, GI Joe, Transformers, monopoly, clue, micromachines, among a thousand other products are actually demonic conduits.
https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/toy-companies/hasbro/ |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:01:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Nerf, play doh, GI Joe, Transformers, monopoly, clue, micromachines, among a thousand other products are actually demonic conduits. I'm skeptical of your claims. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:01:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Actually I asked a very clear question in my post. I absolutely understand that what the priest was saying/asserting in that video clip challenges the fundamental prinicples of reality as many perceive it--and I asked what (apart from consensus reality) informed his (JustinU235's) deep and detailed understanding of the subject matter, and also asked what "tells", facial expressions or mannerisms, there were that led him (or any other viewer) to the ironclad conclusion that the priests was simply lying. Or stupid. Or clearly delusional in his perceptions--because I myself didn't see any. How about you? How do you explain the divergence of HIS description and understanding of the shape of reality versus YOUR understanding of the shape of reality? Is he lying? Do you suppose he is just crazy? How do you explain the divergence of HIS personal, lived experience from you own? Do you suppose that--if only you could sit him down for a good talking to--that you could make him understand that in fact HE doesn't know anything, and that YOU somehow, by virtue of your thorough skepticism, hold the keys to reality? As for "proof"? I imagine that after several hundred exorcisms HE has all the proof that HE needs--but I do understand that is not and won't ever be enough "proof" for you to believe. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By JustinU235: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: What excessive pride am I displaying when I point out there's no evidence? If I'm wrong, feel free to provide evidence otherwise perhaps it's YOU that needs to check his hubris. Originally Posted By 1Andy2: The irony is that you think he's the one with hubris. 20 pages of that in the old thread. Wild right? "There's no evidence of that" "You think you know everything?!?" Like...no...I'm saying the exact opposite. I KNOW nothing except there's no evidence. He also KNOWS nothing. Then he posts the exact definition of what HE'S doing lol. Actually I asked a very clear question in my post. I absolutely understand that what the priest was saying/asserting in that video clip challenges the fundamental prinicples of reality as many perceive it--and I asked what (apart from consensus reality) informed his (JustinU235's) deep and detailed understanding of the subject matter, and also asked what "tells", facial expressions or mannerisms, there were that led him (or any other viewer) to the ironclad conclusion that the priests was simply lying. Or stupid. Or clearly delusional in his perceptions--because I myself didn't see any. How about you? How do you explain the divergence of HIS description and understanding of the shape of reality versus YOUR understanding of the shape of reality? Is he lying? Do you suppose he is just crazy? How do you explain the divergence of HIS personal, lived experience from you own? Do you suppose that--if only you could sit him down for a good talking to--that you could make him understand that in fact HE doesn't know anything, and that YOU somehow, by virtue of your thorough skepticism, hold the keys to reality? As for "proof"? I imagine that after several hundred exorcisms HE has all the proof that HE needs--but I do understand that is not and won't ever be enough "proof" for you to believe. I won't presume to know whether he's lying or truly believes. You know why? Because I don't have evidence either way. That's sort of how this works. You're essentially asking me to prove him wrong since you can't prove him right. That's not how proof/logic works. I can't prove a negative, and I'm sure I couldn't convince him of anything despite the fact he can't prove anything he says. If he could prove it, we wouldn't be having this discussion. All those exorcisms, and not one shred of actual evidence. Interesting huh? You are right about one thing though, a guy saying "trust me bro" does not count as proof for me. It's sort of sad that it does for you. You think you know it all, talk about hubris. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:04:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: I'm skeptical of your claims. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Originally Posted By AbleArcher: Nerf, play doh, GI Joe, Transformers, monopoly, clue, micromachines, among a thousand other products are actually demonic conduits. I'm skeptical of your claims. I edited in the link for hasbros stuff. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:47:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 797hp: Show me a board where the little triangle thingy moves with no one touching it and I might believe they can summon spirits Otherwise it’s the people touching it that are making it move It isn't summoning, it is divination. And you are right, it moves only when people are touching it. The quick notes religious explanation as to why it only moves while people are touching the triangle is referred to as channeling. The people who are using the board are opening up their souls, and some form of entity presumably on the other side, is acting through the people using the board to subconsciously have them move the planchette (aka the triangle thingy). I try to speak only from the standpoint of a Christian believer and I don't try to prove that it is real to non-believers. I didn't create the advanced demons & christians ruleset, I just know what the rules are. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 2:56:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dumak: It isn't summoning, it is divination. And you are right, it moves only when people are touching it. The quick notes religious explanation as to why it only moves while people are touching the triangle is referred to as channeling. The people who are using the board are opening up their souls, and some form of entity presumably on the other side, is acting through the people using the board to subconsciously have them move the planchette (aka the triangle thingy). I try to speak only from the standpoint of a Christian believer and I don't try to prove that it is real to non-believers. I didn't create the advanced demons & christians ruleset, I just know what the rules are. There is a simpler reason why it only moves when it's touched. It's called Newton's first law of motion. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 3:07:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: Groovy. I bet that rug really tied the room together. Would you mind if I invoked the Name of Jesus Christ to ask Him in His great mercy to illuminate for you, you who I assume is clearly seeking the truth about God's creation, the truth about both the visible and the invisible, to illuminate you with the knowlege of that Truth for your eternal benefit and in accordance with His love for you--that you might know the true nature and intentions of the spirits with which you, in your quest for what is true, have consorted with and supplicated? The upside might be eternity in Heaven with the God who called you forth from nothingness. The downside, unfortunately, is no more witch booty. All of that is as believable as ouija board bullshit so no thanks. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 3:12:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eight_Ring: hubris [ hyoo-bris, hoo- ] Phonetic (Standard) IPA noun excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance. Yet you provide no tangible evidence of a divinity or demons. |
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