User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 7:51:39 PM EDT
A poster here on Arf some time back brought up what I found a rather disturbing idea. Basically, if the fecal material hits, we would never be able to get back to where we are now; all of the low-hanging fruit in terms of oil & coal have already been mined & used up. It ain't like the days when you could just stick a pipe in the ground & start selling crude:
 There is some basis for this. If you remember back in the Obungler administration, and the Deepwater BP Oil Spill, they were drilling for oil... two MILES below the ocean's surface.  Fracking is hailed as the savior for our energy independence... but they drill down, and then go SIDEWAYS, deep under the earth:  How the flock do they even do that?!?!?!? In essence, it's like the creature eating it's own tail; in order to maintain this incredibly complex, technological society we have, we need to have... an incredibly complex, technological society. Should that "chain" ever be broken, I don't know that we could ever come back from it. I mean, hell, can you even get a wood fire hot enough to forge steel, much less melt it? Much as I loathe the left, the facts are that, at least in this, they are right: fossil fuels simply cannot last forever.  The things we're doing now to extract resources are full-blown science-fiction-level stuff; absent computers, high-energy tech, and all the other things that make us who we are, we could never access the remaining oil & coal. Were we reduced back to 1890's/Amish-level tech, we might very well be stuck there, permanently.  What do you think? I've heard there is a "sustainable" jet fuel being made now, but we really have not yet come up with a better alternative than plain, old, squished-dinosaurs gasoline to run our cars on. 
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Posted: 5/18/2024 7:59:03 PM EDT
[#1]
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:00:04 PM EDT
[#2]
what
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:04:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: j3_]
[#3]
I'm counting on my King's New American Family Physician book to see me through. I hope the 1877 edition is current enough.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:06:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deny_Everything: "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." 
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:09:20 PM EDT
[#5]
https://montanarenewables.com/
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:11:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deny_Everything: "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." FPNI. OP is all over the place and nowhere is a coherent argument made. Fossil fuels will still be around long after we discover better energy sources. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:13:14 PM EDT
[#7]
I drink your milkshake OP.
( I’m currently sitting on an E-Frac site) |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:16:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnSmith6073: https://montanarenewables.com/ 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:17:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macpherson: FPNI. OP is all over the place and nowhere is a coherent argument made. Fossil fuels will still be around long after we discover better energy sources. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:20:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnSmith6073: https://montanarenewables.com/ The EPA will stil do everything in their power to stop it because it’s “Diesel.” They should rename it something different like “hydrocarbon unicorn piss.” No, wait, that’s DEF fluid… but you get the point. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:25:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Nonsense.
There’s plenty of nut coal available - no need to worry about your parlor stove running out. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:28:47 PM EDT
[#12]
It’s amazing how quickly the world forgot about biodiesel. Willie Nelson even started his own diesel company to develop it. You could have it all, tow your house down the road with your brodozer and still get 20 mpg.
The government started giving subsidies, then Obunghole went into office and sucked on China’s teat with their solar panels, and bye bye biodiesel. https://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/17/biowillie-willie-nelsons-biodiesel-dream-goes-up-in-smoke/ The point being, if the reset button ever did get hit, we’ll find a way to meet our energy needs. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:31:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macpherson: FPNI. OP is all over the place and nowhere is a coherent argument made. Fossil fuels will still be around long after we discover better energy sources. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macpherson: Originally Posted By Deny_Everything: "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul." FPNI. OP is all over the place and nowhere is a coherent argument made. Fossil fuels will still be around long after we discover better energy sources. They will, but like he said, they will be harder and harder to get. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:32:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jollyg83: It’s amazing how quickly the world forgot about biodiesel. Willie Nelson even started his own diesel company to develop it. You could have it all, tow your house down the road with your brodozer and still get 20 mpg. The government started giving subsidies, then Obunghole went into office and sucked on China’s teat with their solar panels, and bye bye biodiesel. https://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/17/biowillie-willie-nelsons-biodiesel-dream-goes-up-in-smoke/ The point being, if the reset button ever did get hit, we’ll find a way to meet our energy needs. It takes a lot of energy to make biodiesel. Especially fertilizers. Where do you think most fertilizers come from? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:34:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 999monkeys]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Which would be....??? Could you forge steel in your back yard? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Originally Posted By macpherson: FPNI. OP is all over the place and nowhere is a coherent argument made. Fossil fuels will still be around long after we discover better energy sources. What do you mean? Nuclear produces all we need to forge steel. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:37:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By targetworks: Nonsense. There’s plenty of nut coal available - no need to worry about your parlor stove running out. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE BIG SHIPS? |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:38:54 PM EDT
[#17]
If things happened that were bad enough to wipe out all of the current systems we have in place the knowledge still exists. Unless you systematically wipe out anyone who is motivated or remotely intelligent in which case it is a moot point.
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:43:26 PM EDT
[#18]
OP, are you ok?
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:45:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotJackMiller: It takes a lot of energy to make biodiesel. Especially fertilizers. Where do you think most fertilizers come from? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NotJackMiller: Originally Posted By jollyg83: It’s amazing how quickly the world forgot about biodiesel. Willie Nelson even started his own diesel company to develop it. You could have it all, tow your house down the road with your brodozer and still get 20 mpg. The government started giving subsidies, then Obunghole went into office and sucked on China’s teat with their solar panels, and bye bye biodiesel. https://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/17/biowillie-willie-nelsons-biodiesel-dream-goes-up-in-smoke/ The point being, if the reset button ever did get hit, we’ll find a way to meet our energy needs. It takes a lot of energy to make biodiesel. Especially fertilizers. Where do you think most fertilizers come from? I remember when articles like this were popping up daily. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a4031/4302655/ The original diesel was designed to run on vegetable oils. Now obviously today’s high tech common rail ultra high pressure DEF engines are a different story. But if we had to reset, it wouldn’t be a difficult process to develop a basic engine like the original diesel that could run on renewable plant based fuels. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:45:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Which would be....??? Could you forge steel in your back yard? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Originally Posted By macpherson: FPNI. OP is all over the place and nowhere is a coherent argument made. Fossil fuels will still be around long after we discover better energy sources. Uhm.. You know that blacksmiths can make fires really hot with wood fires that they add a blower to increase the temperature of the hot coals. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:45:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 999monkeys: What do you mean? Nuclear produces all we need to forge steel. Because I don't. 
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:47:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Societies always come back - unless of course there is some sort of humanity wiping out even like the rapture, the sun dies out, or something of that magnitude.
The only question is what the hierarchy will be and other various societal issues. So yes, but only time will tell for the rest of the details. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:50:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: If things happened that were bad enough to wipe out all of the current systems we have in place the knowledge still exists. Unless you systematically wipe out anyone who is motivated or remotely intelligent in which case it is a moot point. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:50:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Relax OP. Once the power grid goes down nation wide, everything else will work itself out in about 6 months.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:51:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Which would be....??? Could you forge steel in your back yard? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Originally Posted By macpherson: FPNI. OP is all over the place and nowhere is a coherent argument made. Fossil fuels will still be around long after we discover better energy sources. People have been making steel in their backyards since feudal Japan Nobody think we are going to run out of coal in any meaningful timeframe. Likewise for oil. The environmentalists tried making that argument 10 years ago then we found the Bakken. And other oil formations were mysteriously replenished. We aren't going to run out of accessible oil. As time goes on, exploration and extraction methods get better and we gain efficiencies in consumption on the other end. Eventually other energy sources will become viable. Its not a problem anyone needs to worry about in in this time period. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:52:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By M1907Sling: A poster here on Arf some time back brought up what I found a rather disturbing idea. Basically, if the fecal material hits, we would never be able to get back to where we are now; all of the low-hanging fruit in terms of oil & coal have already been mined & used up. It ain't like the days when you could just stick a pipe in the ground & start selling crude: https://assets.cdn.moviepilot.de/files/7291ba2957abda543430b91eb5da633eabe0c394f8fd3d28007a83cf7591/limit/1024/2000/There_Will_Be_Blood_11.jpg There is some basis for this. If you remember back in the Obungler administration, and the Deepwater BP Oil Spill, they were drilling for oil... two MILES below the ocean's surface. Fracking is hailed as the savior for our energy independence... but they drill down, and then go SIDEWAYS, deep under the earth: https://blog.dixonvalve.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Blog/2018/What%20is%20Fracking/frac%20drilling%20diagram.jpg?width=1836&height=1836&name=frac%20drilling%20diagram.jpg How the flock do they even do that?!?!?!? In essence, it's like the creature eating it's own tail; in order to maintain this incredibly complex, technological society we have, we need to have... an incredibly complex, technological society. Should that "chain" ever be broken, I don't know that we could ever come back from it. I mean, hell, can you even get a wood fire hot enough to forge steel, much less melt it? Much as I loathe the left, the facts are that, at least in this, they are absent computers, high-energy tech, and all the other things that make us who we are, we could never access the remaining oil & coal. Were we reduced back to 1890's/Amish-level tech, we might very well be stuck there, permanently. What do you think? I've heard there is a "sustainable" jet fuel being made now, but we really have not yet come up with a better alternative than plain, old, squished-dinosaurs gasoline to run our cars on. SHTF would be horrible, awful, debilitating. But mankind would eventually come back. Meanwhile, all the parasites that created 'here' would die off during the hard times, and those of us (using the collective us, as I'm an old fart and probably wouldn't make it to the resurgence) left would be able to live as we probably already should be living. So, silver linings and shit. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:53:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Fine & dandy. Where are we getting the high-tech, computer-driven offshore oil drilling platforms when most people aren't even getting enough to eat? Think "Great Depression"; most places couldn't even afford paint, much less drilling miles into the earth for oil. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast: If things happened that were bad enough to wipe out all of the current systems we have in place the knowledge still exists. Unless you systematically wipe out anyone who is motivated or remotely intelligent in which case it is a moot point. We may have to start off with horse and buggy, our grand kids might see internal combustion engines, our great great grandkids might see nuclear power. Relax, where there’s a will there’s a way. It’s always been like that. Necessity is the mother of invention. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:57:43 PM EDT
[#28]
I believe a competence crisis is what you're thinking about. If shit goes sideways it will still get done. It may not provide any fruit for those doing it and be insanely inefficient and dangerous, but it will get done. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:58:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jackslack: Relax OP. Once the power grid goes down nation wide, everything else will work itself out in about 6 months. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:59:38 PM EDT
[#30]
TLDR.
POOP THREAD |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 8:59:57 PM EDT
[#31]
You can definitely get wood fired forges hot enough to work steel. There are a bazillion hobby knife makers out there with backyard forges.
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:00:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macpherson: People have been making steel in their backyards since feudal Japan Nobody think we are going to run out of coal in any meaningful timeframe. Likewise for oil. The environmentalists tried making that argument 10 years ago then we found the Bakken. And other oil formations were mysteriously replenished. We aren't going to run out of accessible oil. As time goes on, exploration and extraction methods get better and we gain efficiencies in consumption on the other end. Eventually other energy sources will become viable. Its not a problem anyone needs to worry about in in this time period. Our biggest oil problem is that all the easy to get at oil has been locked behind government regulations.  Attached File |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:01:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: I certainly hope so. https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.8a4bc137b32ee41d954f850c39764e07?rik=WtxG50GkFQ5TJA&pid=ImgRaw&r=0 count on it. There might be some innocents that get caught up in the frenzy. So you best be on your game. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:03:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K5FAL: The EPA will stil do everything in their power to stop it because it's "Diesel." They should rename it something different like "hydrocarbon unicorn piss." No, wait, that's DEF fluid but you get the point. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K5FAL: Originally Posted By JohnSmith6073: https://montanarenewables.com/ The EPA will stil do everything in their power to stop it because it's "Diesel." They should rename it something different like "hydrocarbon unicorn piss." No, wait, that's DEF fluid but you get the point. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:05:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jollyg83: It's amazing how quickly the world forgot about biodiesel. Willie Nelson even started his own diesel company to develop it. You could have it all, tow your house down the road with your brodozer and still get 20 mpg. The government started giving subsidies, then Obunghole went into office and sucked on China's teat with their solar panels, and bye bye biodiesel. https://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/17/biowillie-willie-nelsons-biodiesel-dream-goes-up-in-smoke/ The point being, if the reset button ever did get hit, we'll find a way to meet our energy needs. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:06:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taliv: You can definitely get wood fired forges hot enough to work steel. There are a bazillion hobby knife makers out there with backyard forges. I am not a blacksmith, and don't play one on TV; I'd like to think we can re-make society with just what our Founding Fathers had in the 1700's.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:07:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jackslack: count on it. There might be some innocents that get caught up in the frenzy. So you best be on your game. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jackslack: Originally Posted By M1907Sling: I certainly hope so. https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.8a4bc137b32ee41d954f850c39764e07?rik=WtxG50GkFQ5TJA&pid=ImgRaw&r=0 There might be some innocents that get caught up in the frenzy. So you best be on your game. 
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:08:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Fine & dandy. Where are we getting the high-tech, computer-driven offshore oil drilling platforms when most people aren't even getting enough to eat? Think "Great Depression"; most places couldn't even afford paint, much less drilling miles into the earth for oil. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast: If things happened that were bad enough to wipe out all of the current systems we have in place the knowledge still exists. Unless you systematically wipe out anyone who is motivated or remotely intelligent in which case it is a moot point. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:10:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bravo_Six: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE BIG SHIPS? What about breaking coal into smaller pieces for profit! |
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USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:11:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 999monkeys]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Oh! Cool! You have a uranium mine in your AO? And the centrifuges to spin it into useful nuclear material? Because I don't. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Originally Posted By 999monkeys: What do you mean? Nuclear produces all we need to forge steel. Because I don't. Oh, is this some imaginary scenario where a comet hits earth and wipes all existing infrastructure? By SHTF, I thought you were asking what we would do when fossil fuel became prohibitively expensive to extract. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:15:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Good to know. I am not a blacksmith, and don't play one on TV; I'd like to think we can re-make society with just what our Founding Fathers had in the 1700's.Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1907Sling: Originally Posted By taliv: You can definitely get wood fired forges hot enough to work steel. There are a bazillion hobby knife makers out there with backyard forges. I am not a blacksmith, and don't play one on TV; I'd like to think we can re-make society with just what our Founding Fathers had in the 1700's.Watch some of the African Engineer videos that are all over youtube, where guys with no shoes (or pants, sometimes) are building tractors and/or repairing major drive train components from large vehicles in what are basically dirt floored huts. So long as some alien race doesn't descend and physically pulverize the entirety of earth's technology, there are guys running around in the wild who'll be able to keep it working, albeit possibly to a lesser efficiency. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:17:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Assuming your concerns have merit (they don't), would failing to make it back to where we are necessarily be a bad thing?
The more I see technology advance, the more I think the Amish have the right idea. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:23:13 PM EDT
[#43]
If directional drilling gets OP’s jimmies in a rustle, we could always go back to fracing with nukes
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:33:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LeadBreakfast: If things happened that were bad enough to wipe out all of the current systems we have in place the knowledge still exists. Unless you systematically wipe out anyone who is motivated or remotely intelligent in which case it is a moot point. If SHTF bad enough that we needed to "come back," there won't be enough people left that we would need anywhere near the amount of energy we're using right now. The population losses would be enormous. I bet the remaining people would get by with the remaining "easy to get" fuel for white a while. And I'm not so sure about all that knowledge still existing. There is knowledge about building and sailing huge sailing vessels (think pirates of the Caribbean) that has been completely lost. It wasn't written down, and the need to pass it on verbally ended with the advent of steam power. If we had to go back to sailing, all of that would have to be re-learned. |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:34:32 PM EDT
[#45]
"The fecal matter has impacted the rotating blade cooling device"
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:40:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9D1Alpha]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jollyg83: I remember when articles like this were popping up daily. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a4031/4302655/ The original diesel was designed to run on vegetable oils. Now obviously today’s high tech common rail ultra high pressure DEF engines are a different story. But if we had to reset, it wouldn’t be a difficult process to develop a basic engine like the original diesel that could run on renewable plant based fuels. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jollyg83: Originally Posted By NotJackMiller: Originally Posted By jollyg83: It’s amazing how quickly the world forgot about biodiesel. Willie Nelson even started his own diesel company to develop it. You could have it all, tow your house down the road with your brodozer and still get 20 mpg. The government started giving subsidies, then Obunghole went into office and sucked on China’s teat with their solar panels, and bye bye biodiesel. https://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/17/biowillie-willie-nelsons-biodiesel-dream-goes-up-in-smoke/ The point being, if the reset button ever did get hit, we’ll find a way to meet our energy needs. It takes a lot of energy to make biodiesel. Especially fertilizers. Where do you think most fertilizers come from? I remember when articles like this were popping up daily. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a4031/4302655/ The original diesel was designed to run on vegetable oils. Now obviously today’s high tech common rail ultra high pressure DEF engines are a different story. But if we had to reset, it wouldn’t be a difficult process to develop a basic engine like the original diesel that could run on renewable plant based fuels. Just go down to the gulf of Mexico and start centrifuging all the algae from the Mississippi run-off . * the left over solids could be run through a methane digester |
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Posted: 5/18/2024 9:54:00 PM EDT
[#47]
The US alone has enough oil for 1,000+ years of current consumption levels. Thousands of years.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:14:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Humans went from sticks and rocks to nuclear power and space travel once already without even knowing any of it was possible. Even if everything except the understanding that the concepts exist is lost, that still puts us ahead of where we've been before. It may take a while, but I'd count on the species to figure it back out eventually.
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:26:30 PM EDT
[#49]
I used to work with a man that had a unique world view. He thought that most advances were made when some lazy guy didn't want to work hard, so he invented devices to make work easier.
Those guys are still out there. Working in their garage, trying to find a solution to something they see as a problem. I think we would come back from one of those masturbatory fantasies eventually. If the remains of the government allows it, that is. |
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IRQ
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Posted: 5/18/2024 10:33:40 PM EDT
[#50]
The planet has spent millions of years creating fuels and you think that mankind has depleted them in 164 years.
I think that fecal matter has gone to your brain. |
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