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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 4/28/2024 6:43:53 PM EDT
Alright so this is happening with my m&p15 sport 2.  The ammo I'm currently using that this issue has occurred with is federal 55grain by fmj. The value pack of 100 rounds. So I've used 3 magazines. D&h, magpul gen 2's.  In two other guns. These magazines work perfectly fine. Even the same ammo has ran fine on both.  However with this ammunition in my m&p 15. While I'm shooting, I'll get a dead trigger. Notice the bolt is held open partially.  The rounds are always stuck in the chamber.  Sometimes the rounds have went off.  And it's a spent case. But mostly it'll be a light primer strike, with a bent case still housing the bullet.  Any idea what the can be?
Link Posted: 4/28/2024 8:13:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By Kgb2930:
Alright so this is happening with my m&p15 sport 2.  The ammo I'm currently using that this issue has occurred with is federal 55grain by fmj. The value pack of 100 rounds. So I've used 3 magazines. D&h, magpul gen 2's.  In two other guns. These magazines work perfectly fine. Even the same ammo has ran fine on both.  However with this ammunition in my m&p 15. While I'm shooting, I'll get a dead trigger. Notice the bolt is held open partially.  The rounds are always stuck in the chamber.  Sometimes the rounds have went off.  And it's a spent case. But mostly it'll be a light primer strike, with a bent case still housing the bullet.  Any idea what the can be?
View Quote


did you buy it new?

is it lubed?

new ar owner I met recently at the range was having similar issues.  bolt and carrier were bone dry.  I have a MagPul MIAD grip with the lube bottle, and most of the time I pull it out it's to help someone at the range.  lubed it up, hand cycled it a couple times, no more problems.
Link Posted: 4/28/2024 11:04:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dano523] [#2]
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 1:21:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kgb2930] [#3]
Well I've had it for several years. And now I probably have about a thousand rounds through it. This just started happening within the past time range trips. It happened with pmc bronze 223, federal 223 and wolf gold 223. To simply it, I'll be shooting and then I get a dead trigger. Look to the chamber, notice the bolt is about half an inch from closing with a live round stuck on the chamber. It's typically dented or bent. Basically the rifle is short stroking I believe. Yes I cleaned it after the first incident throughly.  Even ran a bore snake several times down the barrel. And I oiled the rifle. Keep in mind, this rifle has been 100% malfunction free until the last two range trips. With the same magazines and ammunition that I always use. My mcx and other ar15 both functioned flawlessly with this ammunition an magazines.
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 2:31:31 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 2:32:30 AM EDT
[#5]
https://i.postimg.cc/CLNFrd63/RDT-20240428-1902401867452312357165947.png
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 2:33:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Dude that website is trash when it comes to image quality. I can email it to you or text
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 2:33:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 2:36:22 AM EDT
[#8]
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/6d6act.png
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 3:23:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 5:01:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 5/1/2024 9:46:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kgb2930] [#11]
I think we can eliminate it being a magazine problem. I've now tried 4 magazines. I just did a brand new d60 yesterday. And it ran 100%. The ammo was m855 556.  See it doesn't do it every magazine. I can sometimes fire 30 or 40 rounds and everything works perfectly fine with the same ammo. And then dead trigger and bolt failing to go all the way home with a round dented and stuck in the chamber.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 12:49:22 AM EDT
[#12]
So here's everything I've done.  I pulled the bolt out of the carrier and checked alignment of the gas key with the gas tube.  It went together like a knife through butter.  I checked around the a2 front sight post for signs of carbon.  Trying to see of its a gas leak or not.  It's perfectly clean.  I check to see if there was drag of the bolt and carrier in the receiver.  And it didn't have any binding.  Now my gas rings we're spaced apart a little.  But not much, so I did just adjust those to make as far apart as they could be.  After that, I checked my extractor spring.  It's in tact and with a oring.  I checked the head and where the cam pin goes for cracks.  There are no visual cracks.  I cleaned everything with clp and then lightly rubbed oil on the wear marks of the bolt and carrier. I cleaned the feed ramps. I inspected the feed ramps with that photo above I seen on another post already. And everything looked to align correctly from the naked eye. I checked the gas tube for play. It's on tight, the a2 sight doesn't have any pins walking out and isn't canted. Now my buffer spring and buffer are original from Smith and wesson. Yet there isn't quite a thousand rounds on it yet. Now why would it start giving me problems this low of a round count? Could be the culprit though. What I can tell you. Is the gun is way overgassed. My ejection pattern is almost 1 o'clock. It's ejecting so far forward from the video I took. It doesn't even come back and hit the shell deflector.  Which is odd.  I can see that when I slowed the video down. The bolt and carrier when pulled back with the charging handle sit right about a quarter or a inch from the opening of the chamber. Maybe a little less. Now in the middle of pulling back the charging handle. You do feel a little more tension. But that's likely from compressing the buffer spring.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 12:50:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kgb2930] [#13]
I've also check to see if the bolt would collapse on it's on weight. It doesn't, the gas key doesn't budge either. Now I can try running the bolt in another rifle and see if it does the same thing with 223 ammo.  And then run one of my other other bolts in it. To see if it does it again. Because if the different rifle with the same bolt does it. We know it's related to the bolt and carrier. However if the problem persist with the different bolt in the same gun. We know it's something in the gas system or the buffer. This weekend I'll post an update on what happens. Thanks for your help btw.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 5:05:44 AM EDT
[#14]
With those symptoms, it sounds a little anemic. Is it chambered for 5.56? If so have you run 5.56 for comparison?

I would closely inspect the gas tube to key fit, gas key, rings, bolt tail for wear and leak. Weigh your buffer. If your gas system is tight and your buffer is heavy, I'd drop buffer weight. There's a fair chance you've been on the edge of efficiency/ balance of gas vs buffer  weight and normal wear has loosened things up enough that under gas symptoms are showing up. It could also be ported for 5.56 gas and .223 is making it struggle under these conditions.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 8:45:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dano523] [#15]
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 11:31:57 AM EDT
[#16]
The rifle is not undergassed, it's quite over gassed. So much so that it's slinging spent cases at the 1 o'clock. An overgassed rifle can cause short stroking.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 11:38:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Yeah it's chambered for 556. And yes it runs 556 fine.  It seems to only malfunction when running 223 ammunition.
Link Posted: 5/2/2024 11:39:38 AM EDT
[#18]
What I can tell is the bolt every time was almost closed and behind the rim.
Link Posted: 5/3/2024 8:59:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 5/27/2024 12:49:28 PM EDT
[#20]
is this your only ar?  can you swap a different lower onto it?  

overgassed, or a weak buffer spring, should result in the same symptoms.  

buffer springs are cheap.  like $4 plus shipping.
Link Posted: Yesterday 9:53:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Yes, actually thought of that too. And no it's not brand new. I've got maybe a thousand thousand through it now.
Link Posted: Yesterday 10:05:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kgb2930] [#22]
Ok here's an update.  Finally got another lot of ammo.  I used IMI m193 556 this time.  And the bolt still short stroked. But the other two bolts ran 100% i had. I bought a dozen brand new lancer mags.  Took my other ar15.  A Delton that runs 100% with a bcm bolt and carrier. I swapped the m&p bolt with the bcm from the Delton. The Delton suffered the same malfunction running the m&p bolt with the new lancer magazines. Basically short stroking. The round will hang up as it's clambering the next round. With the bcm bolt.. The m&p ran 30 rounds 100% with the lancer magazine. Yet if I put the gen 2 pmag in the Delton with the m&p bolt. It also runs 100%. And vice versa.  So as you can see.  This is confusing, is it a magazine issue? Or a bolt issue?  When it first started happening. I didn't own the lancer mags. I used a d&h tactical magazine, and a m&p gen 2. Windowed.  I also ran a psa premium bolt in the m&p.  And it ran 100% with the lancer and m&p magazine.  So we can rule out the lower received and upper receiver of the m&p.  Now the m&p bolt will run good with some of my pmags. But then short stroke on the d&h magazine, lancer magazines and my windowed pmag. The lancer magazines are brand new. It will short stroke on both rifles. With the same magazines. But then I run those magazines with the psa and bcm bolt. And it runs 100% in both rifles.
Link Posted: Today 1:19:37 AM EDT
[#23]
The gas key is tight, no wiggle.  This particular bolt also looks staked  correctly.  I heard some m&ps made it out of the factory not being correctly staked.
Link Posted: Today 1:42:58 AM EDT
[#24]
https://i.postimg.cc/Bndy2CHZ/20240610-013751.jpg

Ok so this is something I noticed after firing around 160 rounds through it. It looks like there may be some carbon building up in front of the has key. And that could be my culprit there for the short stroking.
Link Posted: Today 5:13:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Homesteader375] [#25]
Symptomaticaly, it's acting like it's under gassed. I get that there's plenty of gas being supplied but it's not being used efficiently. Since you have narrowed it down to the BCG, it's a fair guess that something is either a grossly out of spec or blocked.

If you're confident that the rings are good, there's no obstruction in the gas key, and you don't have the tooling to measure the BCG to determine exactly how it's out of spec, I'd just replace the BCG. There's a chance you could get away with just replacing the bolt but, if the carrier is the problem you're not making any progress.
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